1B4IDie Posted March 13, 2014 Author Posted March 13, 2014 Every thread turns into ground hog day. Man, you ain't kidding. Hey, in case you guys didn't know the Bills have missed the playoffs for the last 15 years, therefore anything that they have ever done or will ever do is utterly hopeless and doomed to fail because they have missed the playoff for the last 15 years.
Mr. WEO Posted March 13, 2014 Posted March 13, 2014 So...you're saying that, so far, we have won the off-season yet again?
Chuck Schick Posted March 13, 2014 Posted March 13, 2014 (edited) Jerry Hughes was a former first round bust this regime brought in last year whom many on this board described as a polished turd. Turned out pretty well for us. Change of system and supporting cast sometimes does a guy good I think what's missing from the conversation is the risk/reward of these free agents. Someone on the thread was trying to add up all the money we have paid and recommended we could have just applied that to Byrd. The system doesn't work that way. Teams that sink massive money on multi-year contracts (or in the case of the Pats and Revis a monster 1-yr deal) are REALLY screwed if that guy doesn't pan out. In fact, teams can still be left hurting even if the guy turns out to be very good (Dallas- Ware, N.O.- Brees, etc.) This is because of the crippling effect it has on the cap of course, not the actual money paid by the team. If the Bills swing and miss on a Rivers, Hughes, or some other mid-range guy, it doesn't have a lasting negative effect. Edited March 13, 2014 by Chuck Schick
auburnbillsbacker Posted March 13, 2014 Posted March 13, 2014 I feel the Bills two most recent signing have been a waste of cap space. Both players have struggled throughout their careers and are probably more suited to be backups, yet they will receiver a total of 6 million a year. I would much rather invest 6 million dollars in a play maker, something the bills have lacked. As for Byrd not wanting to be here, that was not the case according to Aaron Williams. The Bills should have used the franchise tag on him. We need more play makers like him, not less. The Saints placed the tag on Brees last year even though he did not want the tag. The Saints placed the TE tag on Graham, which he hated. You have to do everything in your power to improve your roster.
BigBuff423 Posted March 13, 2014 Posted March 13, 2014 I think what's missing from the conversation is the risk/reward of these free agents. Someone on the thread was trying to add up all the money we have paid and recommended we could have just applied that to Byrd. The system doesn't work that way. Teams that sink massive money on multi-year contracts (or in the case of the Pats and Revis a monster 1-yr deal) are REALLY screwed if that guy doesn't pan out. In fact, teams can still be left hurting even if the guy turns out to be very good (Dallas- Ware, N.O.- Brees, etc.) This is because of the crippling effect it has on the cap of course, not the actual money paid by the team. If the Bills swing and miss on a Rivers, Hughes, or some other mid-range guy, it doesn't have a lasting negative effect. Not to mention, it is directly tied to paying for a *POSITION and not a PLAYER, in that such money should be devoted to LT, QB, DE, DB, skills of great impact which can also include Offensive and Defensive Line....Safeties, just aren't worth that much money, regardless of productivity...pay them well, but that type of money just isn't worth it, IMO.....
RevWarRifleman Posted March 13, 2014 Posted March 13, 2014 The Bills have brought in two former first round picks, 1 at LB, 1 at O-Line, re-sign a clutch kicker, and brought in a Buffalo Native, Super Bowl champion at DB. With more signings possible in the future. I'm really happy with the Free Agents and think they will strengthen the team and improve the Bills chances of winning. I really don't get all the pissing and moaning around here. Byrd wanted to be free. Get over it. + 1 on that, WSS. All of your post.
Luxy312 Posted March 13, 2014 Posted March 13, 2014 It's amazing to me how short term so many fans memories are. Last year we were sitting here talking about how Buffalo wasn't doing anything in free agency. Shame on us for swapping linebackers with Indianapolis to get Jerry Hughes. Never mine the undrafted Nickell Robey or free agents Dan Carpenter, Jim Leonhard, Alan Branch and Manny Lawson. Just mid-level players, right? About 30% of our sacks and interceptions came from those same mid-level signings. So we sit here and poo poo the signing of a guard to replace someone that is clearly undersized at the position. We poo poo an upgraded nickel corner in Corey Graham and now a good linebacker in Keith Rivers. IMO, this team is doing exactly what they should be. They're addressing positions of need with players that they know can contribute and not essentially "buying" themselves out of their draft position. They will be able to take the best available player at #9 without feeling like they must take a position because they have a need. Last year, I would have graded them a "C", and I was clearly wrong. This year, I would agree with the OP. They're doing a great job. Maybe not an "A" grade, but at least a "B" so far.
cjatcreek07 Posted March 13, 2014 Posted March 13, 2014 There is a perfect situation where stats don't tell the whole story. Ed Reed was much more than just an INT guy. He was a strong cover guy, not just a centerfielder and when he hit someone he left a lasting impression on the receiver. When was the last time an opposing player said "Damn, that Byrd really hits hard." I like Byrd, but I don't think he's worth 9 mil/year. Thank you, +1. Byrd was great for us but he wasn't like Ed Reed in his prime. Ed Reed was a game changer and won big clutch games. Teams weren't exactly gameplanning around Byrd. We didn't want to pay him what New Orleans did and he didn't want to play here anymore, get over it nancies
BillsVet Posted March 13, 2014 Posted March 13, 2014 Billsvet, you're not living up to your namesake here. Derrick Dockery signed the 3rd largest contract in NFL history in 2007 for his position at guard. 7-years, almost $50 million with $18 million guaranteed. That same year they also inked Langston Walker to a 5 year $25 million deal with another $10 million guaranteed. $75 million with $28 million guaranteed in 2007 was a HUGE chunk of change. I'm a Bills fan and a military veteran, hence the name. Not to mention a veteran of a lot of bad football over the past 14 years. Throwing money after bad offensive lineman during the '07 spending spree wasn't a solution. Sure, it meets the "investment" criteria, but failed in the "improvement" category. And because this is a nuanced subject it won't go over well when criticism is leveled. The fact remains that over multiple GM's, HC's, OL coaches, etc. going back 15-20 years the Buffalo Bills aren't effectively addressing their OL issues. This is a team that failed to draft an offensive tackle between the first and third round from 2003-2011. The best blockers this team had in the past 10 years, Peters and Levitre, were not retained. Only three 1st or 2nd round picks have been used on the OL in the past 11 drafts. One departed without an adequate replacement last year (Levitre), one was re-signed (Wood), and the other is out-playing his contract and will, barring injury or bad play this year, be in-line for a huge payday (Glenn). And for the record, I'm not advocating for five high picks, five huge UFA signings, or any combination. I believe solid blockers can be found in mid rounds or on moderate contracts in UFA. It's an "if" at this time, but if Williams struggles as he did in Saint Louis, it tells me they're following history. again in their OL evaluations.
Sumin Posted March 13, 2014 Posted March 13, 2014 They still need a RT and we agree on that. I don't see the deflection on QB though. How good were: Alex Van Pelt, Kelly Holcomb, Todd Collins, Billy Joe Hobart Bledsoe, Losman, Edwards, and Fitzpatrick after leaving the Bills? They all stink and were all bad QBs. The Bills have been able to run the ball and their OL 2 years ago I would consider pretty good (Glenn-Levitre-Wood-Urbik-Hairston). Before you go into how that wasn't an investment it was 2 2nd round picks, a 1st, a 3rd (i think Urbik was) and a 4th. There is not some massive conspiracy to put together a bad OL to deflect from your bad QBs. They lost a good LG (albeit for $8M) & replaced him with 2 guys that should be bagging groceries. Their starting RT was out the year and his backup is showing signs of age and needs to be replaced. The RG graded out above average, the center a little below average but I think that we all agree that he is better than that and the LT graded out elite. They brought in a new LG that I am not thrilled about but he really can't be worse. RT still needs to be addressed and the OL will be fine. They can release Pears and have Hairston as the swing tackle and Unga as the swing guy inside. Urbik was hobbled this year. I think he can be productive. If Pears is cut, it'll be in training camp. He's not costing the Bills any bonuses at the moment, so the competition would be beneficial. Great post
juno999 Posted March 13, 2014 Posted March 13, 2014 I think "cautiously optimistic" is warranted. Looking at Whaley's track record, he's had a good first draft, and brought in some solid players via other means last year - I'm specifically thinking about Manny Lawson & Jerry Hughes. Lawson was a bit of a "who? really?" signing and Hughes had been a bust at Indy. They turned into players here, maybe we can get some of these new guys to contribute. Saying a former #1 pick is a bust means to me that they aren't living up to being a first round pick - but if they are playing at the level of a good 2nd/3rd/4th rounder, then we've made a solid acquisition. Look at the money these guys are getting - its not like we are throwing Derrick Dockery or Langston Walker sized contracts at them. If they are good but not great, they will be filling the role they are being paid for. Agree with you. I would add Branch in the mix as well. Regarding Williams, perhaps the Bears share some of the blame by reaching for Williams in the 1st round. There are several college OTs who don't have enough skills to play OT in the NFL. They end up at guard.
1B4IDie Posted March 13, 2014 Author Posted March 13, 2014 (edited) I feel the Bills two most recent signing have been a waste of cap space. Both players have struggled throughout their careers and are probably more suited to be backups, yet they will receiver a total of 6 million a year. I would much rather invest 6 million dollars in a play maker, something the bills have lacked. As for Byrd not wanting to be here, that was not the case according to Aaron Williams. The Bills should have used the franchise tag on him. We need more play makers like him, not less. The Saints placed the tag on Brees last year even though he did not want the tag. The Saints placed the TE tag on Graham, which he hated. You have to do everything in your power to improve your roster. Which Playmaker did the Bills miss out on in the 2014 Free Agency? Edited March 13, 2014 by Why So Serious?
davspo Posted March 13, 2014 Posted March 13, 2014 You lose a guy Byrd who is top 3 in his position - you sign a good special teams player Graham and then Sign Chris Williams and Keith Rivers who are almost universally considered players who you do not want as your starters - I fail to see how this is an excellent job in free agency- those 3 signings cost more than what Byrd got or Byrd's franchise tag. +1 It amazed me how good teams find money to spend and we can't. How did the Saints make that work. You cannot say we are better today then we were after the last game of the season. We lost our best coach and our best defensive player (arguable)
Luxy312 Posted March 13, 2014 Posted March 13, 2014 I'm a Bills fan and a military veteran, hence the name. Not to mention a veteran of a lot of bad football over the past 14 years. Throwing money after bad offensive lineman during the '07 spending spree wasn't a solution. Sure, it meets the "investment" criteria, but failed in the "improvement" category. And because this is a nuanced subject it won't go over well when criticism is leveled. The fact remains that over multiple GM's, HC's, OL coaches, etc. going back 15-20 years the Buffalo Bills aren't effectively addressing their OL issues. This is a team that failed to draft an offensive tackle between the first and third round from 2003-2011. The best blockers this team had in the past 10 years, Peters and Levitre, were not retained. Only three 1st or 2nd round picks have been used on the OL in the past 11 drafts. One departed without an adequate replacement last year (Levitre), one was re-signed (Wood), and the other is out-playing his contract and will, barring injury or bad play this year, be in-line for a huge payday (Glenn). And for the record, I'm not advocating for five high picks, five huge UFA signings, or any combination. I believe solid blockers can be found in mid rounds or on moderate contracts in UFA. It's an "if" at this time, but if Williams struggles as he did in Saint Louis, it tells me they're following history. again in their OL evaluations. Your exact comment though was: "There haven't been many examples of the Bills investing in their OL in the past 15-20 years". That statement is just patently false. Changing it and saying they didn't address the offensive line effectively is a different statement entirely. The team factually has been active in either free agency or through the draft in trying to address the position over that entire time period. When I think back over the last 15 years, I can name quite a few draft picks that were intended to fill a position of need. Mike Williams, Marquis Sullivan, Jonas Jennings, Terrence Pennington, Ed Wang, Duke Preston, Chris Hairston, and of course we know Eric Wood and Cordy Glenn. While those are just draft picks, there have been quite a few free agency moves to boot, including the two that stand out as a big waste of money in Dockery and Walker. For the record, I wasn't attacking you personally. I'm just a fan and prefer to keep things in the context of facts. The Bills offensive line was decent last season in the passing game but horrible in the run. We will see what Williams does when he's playing next to two players that are pretty good at their positions. He hasn't done that yet in his career either.
1B4IDie Posted March 13, 2014 Author Posted March 13, 2014 I feel the Bills two most recent signing have been a waste of cap space. Both players have struggled throughout their careers and are probably more suited to be backups, yet they will receiver a total of 6 million a year. I would much rather invest 6 million dollars in a play maker, something the bills have lacked. As for Byrd not wanting to be here, that was not the case according to Aaron Williams. The Bills should have used the franchise tag on him. We need more play makers like him, not less. The Saints placed the tag on Brees last year even though he did not want the tag. The Saints placed the TE tag on Graham, which he hated. You have to do everything in your power to improve your roster. Well according to Byrd he wanted out, evidenced by the fact that he did not sign a larger contract with the Buffalo Bills but instead signed a smaller contract with the New Orleans Saints.
davspo Posted March 13, 2014 Posted March 13, 2014 Meanwhile the Pats get Revis and the Jets get Decker- we are falling further behind. Get use to it folks, until we get a new owner who is committed to winning, this is what we are going to get.
PromoTheRobot Posted March 13, 2014 Posted March 13, 2014 Hey, in case you guys didn't know the Bills have missed the playoffs for the last 15 years, therefore anything that they have ever done or will ever do is utterly hopeless and doomed to fail because they have missed the playoff for the last 15 years. (bzzzzzzzzt) "I got you, babe....I got you, babe..."
auburnbillsbacker Posted March 13, 2014 Posted March 13, 2014 Which Playmaker did the Bills miss out on in the 2014 Free Agency? Their own, Byrd.
BigBuff423 Posted March 13, 2014 Posted March 13, 2014 +1 It amazed me how good teams find money to spend and we can't. How did the Saints make that work. You cannot say we are better today then we were after the last game of the season. We lost our best coach and our best defensive player (arguable) Wow....just, Wow....I really do my best to respect each person's opinion, no matter how divergent they may be from my own...but, Wow...this, baffles me. That's not intended to be disrespectful or insulting, just...Wow...it's extremely hard for me to grasp this perspective...I, just don't get it.... Byrd was out for five or six games last year this team was competitive with a Rookie WR that the BILLS Drafted intending for him to sit for a year or two behind Kolb and learn the system, make some technical adjustments to his feet and throws and grow into the QB they have in mind for him...Starting RT goes down and Spiller's injury lasts the year...not to mention, LG was truly undervalued and misappropriated in talent, which IS their fault...but the team just brought in a better Defensive staff as a whole, i.e. Pepper Johnson and Chuck Pagac, while not compromising on experience and some proven good Defensive schemes with Schwartz, gotten Hostler from the Ravens to help the Offense develop, actually hired a QB coach who just coached Stafford, signed an upgrade at LG, got better depth at the CB and LB position - 2 FREAKING DAYS INTO FA! And you don't see how this team is better than when the season ended??? Not to mention they've unloaded Kolb, signed Ramses Barden that could help in the Red Zone, hired a new WR's coach and are STILL BRINGING IN FAs!! Wow...just....wow Byrd was a good / great Safety, but his absence will NOT dictate wins or losses in general and will not change the course of this team for better or worse...
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