tennesseeboy Posted March 13, 2014 Posted March 13, 2014 I think next year is the sink or swim year for EJ to show he is the guy. That being the case, and given that we don't seem to be in the bidding yet for a tackle from the better FA's out there I have to think we are going tackle in the draft. That or maybe Ebron if he is available. Actually as early as it may seem I think it may be make or break for Marrone to produce a winning season.
thewildrabbit Posted March 13, 2014 Posted March 13, 2014 I'm reserving judgment, since I know nothing about these guys. I will be keeping my expectations low, considering our 14 year run. Me too. to the op, JaMarcus Russell was a 1st overall pick, did that mean he was going to be great? That O linemen the Bills just signed is a very slight upgrade to Doug legursky, and like Legursky was for the Steelers, Williams was the very worst graded player on the line in St Louis. Both those players graded in double digits in the RED! -24 & -21 So far Whaley has shown me that he is a chip off the good ole bumpkin in terms of signing scrubs for the O line. He gets it right for the defense, but so far he gets a grade of Z for building a top offensive line for all those young, inexperienced QB's. I feel bad for EJ, he deserves better then this .
BillsVet Posted March 13, 2014 Posted March 13, 2014 He gets it right for the defense, but so far he gets a grade of Z for building a top offensive line for all those young, inexperienced QB's. There haven't been many examples of the Bills investing in their OL in the past 15-20 years. Donahoe didn't do it, Marv tried and failed in UFA '07, Modrak/Jauron drafted 2 top players high to fill immediate OL needs in '09, and outside of that there hasn't been much put in there. Nix drafted Glenn, but again, when there was an extreme OT need. Last year 3 of the 5 linemen were acquired either late in free agency (Legursky), signed from a practice squad (Urbik), or off the street (Pears). Low cost signings for the OL have been a hallmark of the Bills organization for years. And within the span of 4 years they let Peters and Levitre go without having adequate replacements on the roster before doing so. And for the record, I'm not saying they needed to sign a high priced guy, but getting Chris Williams doesn't mean the OL is settled. On most teams he's a depth guy.
Bills Fan in KS Posted March 13, 2014 Posted March 13, 2014 Thank you for starting this. I swear the past month everyone on this message board has been crying like little school girls for no reason. Marrone will take us to the promise land. Billieve right. Go bills! Thanks again why so serious.
thewildrabbit Posted March 13, 2014 Posted March 13, 2014 There haven't been many examples of the Bills investing in their OL in the past 15-20 years. Donahoe didn't do it, Marv tried and failed in UFA '07, Modrak/Jauron drafted 2 top players high to fill immediate OL needs in '09, and outside of that there hasn't been much put in there. Nix drafted Glenn, but again, when there was an extreme OT need. Last year 3 of the 5 linemen were acquired either late in free agency (Legursky), signed from a practice squad (Urbik), or off the street (Pears). Low cost signings for the OL have been a hallmark of the Bills organization for years. And within the span of 4 years they let Peters and Levitre go without having adequate replacements on the roster before doing so. And for the record, I'm not saying they needed to sign a high priced guy, but getting Chris Williams doesn't mean the OL is settled. On most teams he's a depth guy. I gotta wonder if this is just part of the grand scheme of deflection? To constantly deflect all the blame to the QB, and off the FO, & owner. So fans are so busy complaining about the QB play that they lose sight of the bigger picture. This way the QB doesn't have a chance to succeed in any offensive scheme. Success has many fathers, and defeat is an orphan. No playoffs mean no big expensive journeys with the entire org to the big game. No multiple pro bowl players that want more money. Keep things simple and under control. Meanwhile keeping the stadium filled would be a job for a football man, or a marketing man? I agree with you BillsVet, as It just makes no sense to me to go so many years with sub par offensive lines. I just don't get it.
bigK14094 Posted March 13, 2014 Posted March 13, 2014 We don't need a safety jumbalaya, we drafted 2 of them last year because we planned on Byrd being a cry baby for all 16 games instead of the 6 he missed. Yes, and I am not sure if either can play. The Duke looked lost in space out there last year.
Tasmo Posted March 13, 2014 Posted March 13, 2014 Everything Doug Whaley has done so far has been consistent with a solid unified vision and plan. He has brought in coaches that other teams wanted too and have a history of success over time in their areas of specialty. Marrone, Schwartz, Jim Hostler, Pepper Johnson, Donnie Henderson, etc... These are top shelf men. Buffalo has a solid Defensive line up and needs to continue building depth. Keith Rivers and Corey Graham help with that. Offensively, Kolb was a bust that they need to recover from. It will be interesting to see what goes on there. EJ Manuel was Mayock's top pick last year and he said that he was a raw talent that was a winner. Time will be the best teacher there. Now that he has the QB coach Todd Downing. Unfortunately, Time is something none of us have to give because we have all been waiting for some sort of signs of improvement in the wins category. It won't be easy or fast because the Bills are coming out of a disastrous period of history. AFC East teams are all jockeying for position and the Bills are handicapped by the past. Change won't come easily but Doug Whaley and Doug Marrone are following a solid plan and doing what they said they would do. Build through the draft and solidify with free agency.
Kirby Jackson Posted March 13, 2014 Posted March 13, 2014 I gotta wonder if this is just part of the grand scheme of deflection? To constantly deflect all the blame to the QB, and off the FO, & owner. So fans are so busy complaining about the QB play that they lose sight of the bigger picture. This way the QB doesn't have a chance to succeed in any offensive scheme. Success has many fathers, and defeat is an orphan. No playoffs mean no big expensive journeys with the entire org to the big game. No multiple pro bowl players that want more money. Keep things simple and under control. Meanwhile keeping the stadium filled would be a job for a football man, or a marketing man? I agree with you BillsVet, as It just makes no sense to me to go so many years with sub par offensive lines. I just don't get it. They still need a RT and we agree on that. I don't see the deflection on QB though. How good were: Alex Van Pelt, Kelly Holcomb, Todd Collins, Billy Joe Hobart Bledsoe, Losman, Edwards, and Fitzpatrick after leaving the Bills? They all stink and were all bad QBs. The Bills have been able to run the ball and their OL 2 years ago I would consider pretty good (Glenn-Levitre-Wood-Urbik-Hairston). Before you go into how that wasn't an investment it was 2 2nd round picks, a 1st, a 3rd (i think Urbik was) and a 4th. There is not some massive conspiracy to put together a bad OL to deflect from your bad QBs. They lost a good LG (albeit for $8M) & replaced him with 2 guys that should be bagging groceries. Their starting RT was out the year and his backup is showing signs of age and needs to be replaced. The RG graded out above average, the center a little below average but I think that we all agree that he is better than that and the LT graded out elite. They brought in a new LG that I am not thrilled about but he really can't be worse. RT still needs to be addressed and the OL will be fine. They can release Pears and have Hairston as the swing tackle and Unga as the swing guy inside.
....lybob Posted March 13, 2014 Posted March 13, 2014 You lose a guy Byrd who is top 3 in his position - you sign a good special teams player Graham and then Sign Chris Williams and Keith Rivers who are almost universally considered players who you do not want as your starters - I fail to see how this is an excellent job in free agency- those 3 signings cost more than what Byrd got or Byrd's franchise tag.
BigBuff423 Posted March 13, 2014 Posted March 13, 2014 I'm with the plan the BILLS have thus far....it is very difficult to be patient when this team has shown no signs of life for nearly 14 years and has failed in so many different ways on multiple occasions...it's almost HARDER to fail in all the different ways this team has over the length of time without accidentally tripping into the playoffs...what has been the constant is the degree of excellence the Patriots have had over that same time frame...look at other divisions, they've all had good teams rise to the top within their divisions but in the AFC East the Patsies have just owned it for about the same time the BILLS have just been horrible. The Jets had a couple good years and Miami one good year in all those years, that amounts to three maybe four where the Pats had to really sweat it out to the end, but most years, they've just dominated, much to my chagrin....so, Buffalo struggles, makes really poor FO decisions which results in bad Draft decisions for the most part and then tries to overpay for bad FA moves, see Derrick Dockery and Langston Walker, while also thinking they could just plug in any ole coach, See Jauron and Gailey, while brining in average and sub-par players.....but and this is a HUGE AS* but, when Brandon was given carte blanche to do as he saw fit, his first move was to fire Gailey, bring in a Coach who had been in the college ranks and could relate to younger players but had NFL coaching experience, have a transfer of GM responsibilities in place, begin to use metrics to help balance what football observation and instincts provide, and do what they should have done and that's build through the Draft, for real this time!! The last few Drafts have proven to be solid to good and shows this regime has a good idea of knowing how to Draft, Glenn and Kiko are givens, but there are others and this post is already too long....the BILLS lose Pettine to a good opportunity and instead of being the same ole BILLS and just promoting from within because of "continuity", they go get a good Defensive mind proven in the NFL on several levels in Schwartz, furthermore, they don't stand pat, they bring in Pagac and my favorite, Pepper Johnson, to augment the Defensive scheme and bring out the best in the Defense. Then, not being short-sighted and realizing the Offense needed some coaching help bring in Hostler, a real gem when it comes to maximizing the talent and skills of WRs, and what do the BILLS have? Two young developing WRs and probably a third to follow in May, and he will help coach and scheme an Offense.... Overall point is this: we are all frustrated by the lack of winning and success for the BILLS....we are all tired of watching our beloved BILLS take it on the chin week in and week out, only to have the media ridicule their every move in the Off-Season and have one pundit after another berate them for "stupidity" and for "cheap" moves while pointing to the playoff drought...unfortunately, much like finding yourself in a big hole, there is no easy way out, no magic pill or wave of a wand....it will take time and patience, the two things we fans have run out of, yet it's those things that are required to actually become what we want this team to be: a long-term winning franchise that becomes the veritable model of a champion....you want the road to the Super Bowl to go through Buffalo? Patience, insight, wisdom, and time.....hard pills to swallow, but necessary.
Realist Posted March 13, 2014 Posted March 13, 2014 Just so you know: BYRD: 22 INTs 11 FF's 73 games played ED REED: 27 INTS 5 FF's 74 games played. There is a perfect situation where stats don't tell the whole story. Ed Reed was much more than just an INT guy. He was a strong cover guy, not just a centerfielder and when he hit someone he left a lasting impression on the receiver. When was the last time an opposing player said "Damn, that Byrd really hits hard." I like Byrd, but I don't think he's worth 9 mil/year. Will he have good stats with the Saints, absolutely, but that's because most teams play from behind when facing NO, so they have to throw the ball a lot more. As was mentioned earlier in this thread the future rides on QB play, if EJ does not become an above average to great QB, the losing will continue. It has nothing to do with Byrd or any other FA we lost. Right now the Bills are doing nothing more than shoring up some positions that need it. The one position I personally, would like to see a decent FA signing would be WR, in my opinion we don't have enough good weapons for EJ right now.
PromoTheRobot Posted March 13, 2014 Posted March 13, 2014 Every thread turns into ground hog day. Man, you ain't kidding.
TallskiWallski83 Posted March 13, 2014 Posted March 13, 2014 There is a perfect situation where stats don't tell the whole story. Ed Reed was much more than just an INT guy. He was a strong cover guy, not just a centerfielder and when he hit someone he left a lasting impression on the receiver. When was the last time an opposing player said "Damn, that Byrd really hits hard." I like Byrd, but I don't think he's worth 9 mil/year. Will he have good stats with the Saints, absolutely, but that's because most teams play from behind when facing NO, so they have to throw the ball a lot more. As was mentioned earlier in this thread the future rides on QB play, if EJ does not become an above average to great QB, the losing will continue. It has nothing to do with Byrd or any other FA we lost. Right now the Bills are doing nothing more than shoring up some positions that need it. The one position I personally, would like to see a decent FA signing would be WR, in my opinion we don't have enough good weapons for EJ right now. Your claim lacks any supporting evidence, it is just an opinion. In my opinion, Reed was never known for his hitting, he was known for his elite ball hawking skills and return ability ( the latter being something Byrd does NOT have) You would think the guy with 11 FF's would be the harder hitter, but thats just assumption.
PromoTheRobot Posted March 13, 2014 Posted March 13, 2014 Yes, and I am not sure if either can play. The Duke looked lost in space out there last year. Yes, you know is a player is a dud if he doesn't light it up in the first 5 minutes of his career.
Luxy312 Posted March 13, 2014 Posted March 13, 2014 (edited) There haven't been many examples of the Bills investing in their OL in the past 15-20 years. Donahoe didn't do it, Marv tried and failed in UFA '07, Modrak/Jauron drafted 2 top players high to fill immediate OL needs in '09, and outside of that there hasn't been much put in there. Nix drafted Glenn, but again, when there was an extreme OT need. Last year 3 of the 5 linemen were acquired either late in free agency (Legursky), signed from a practice squad (Urbik), or off the street (Pears). Low cost signings for the OL have been a hallmark of the Bills organization for years. And within the span of 4 years they let Peters and Levitre go without having adequate replacements on the roster before doing so. And for the record, I'm not saying they needed to sign a high priced guy, but getting Chris Williams doesn't mean the OL is settled. On most teams he's a depth guy. Billsvet, you're not living up to your namesake here. Derrick Dockery signed the 3rd largest contract in NFL history in 2007 for his position at guard. 7-years, almost $50 million with $18 million guaranteed. That same year they also inked Langston Walker to a 5 year $25 million deal with another $10 million guaranteed. $75 million with $28 million guaranteed in 2007 was a HUGE chunk of change. Edited March 13, 2014 by Luxy312
Fan in San Diego Posted March 13, 2014 Posted March 13, 2014 Who cares? He didn't want to stay and I sure as hell didn't want a flare up of Plantar fasciitis either. We treated him fairly and that wasn't good enough. Adios. Oh and try to never have any of Eugene Parkers clients ever again. +1
mattsox Posted March 13, 2014 Posted March 13, 2014 The Bills have brought in two former first round picks, 1 at LB, 1 at O-Line, re-sign a clutch kicker, and brought in a Buffalo Native, Super Bowl champion at DB. With more signings possible in the future. I'm really happy with the Free Agents and think they will strengthen the team and improve the Bills chances of winning. I really don't get all the pissing and moaning around here. Byrd wanted to be free. Get over it. Because we perpetually suck. Byrd should have been resigned last year. Williams > Byrd ??? I don't think so. Bad team, making another bad decision. Who have we gotten in FA that is going to make a sizable impact to get us past a 6-10 record??? I don't buy it man. We'll see how they do this year. I just don't think it will be much better. 8-8 at best.
filthymcnasty08 Posted March 13, 2014 Posted March 13, 2014 I'm with the plan the BILLS have thus far....it is very difficult to be patient when this team has shown no signs of life for nearly 14 years and has failed in so many different ways on multiple occasions...it's almost HARDER to fail in all the different ways this team has over the length of time without accidentally tripping into the playoffs...what has been the constant is the degree of excellence the Patriots have had over that same time frame...look at other divisions, they've all had good teams rise to the top within their divisions but in the AFC East the Patsies have just owned it for about the same time the BILLS have just been horrible. The Jets had a couple good years and Miami one good year in all those years, that amounts to three maybe four where the Pats had to really sweat it out to the end, but most years, they've just dominated, much to my chagrin....so, Buffalo struggles, makes really poor FO decisions which results in bad Draft decisions for the most part and then tries to overpay for bad FA moves, see Derrick Dockery and Langston Walker, while also thinking they could just plug in any ole coach, See Jauron and Gailey, while brining in average and sub-par players.....but and this is a HUGE AS* but, when Brandon was given carte blanche to do as he saw fit, his first move was to fire Gailey, bring in a Coach who had been in the college ranks and could relate to younger players but had NFL coaching experience, have a transfer of GM responsibilities in place, begin to use metrics to help balance what football observation and instincts provide, and do what they should have done and that's build through the Draft, for real this time!! The last few Drafts have proven to be solid to good and shows this regime has a good idea of knowing how to Draft, Glenn and Kiko are givens, but there are others and this post is already too long....the BILLS lose Pettine to a good opportunity and instead of being the same ole BILLS and just promoting from within because of "continuity", they go get a good Defensive mind proven in the NFL on several levels in Schwartz, furthermore, they don't stand pat, they bring in Pagac and my favorite, Pepper Johnson, to augment the Defensive scheme and bring out the best in the Defense. Then, not being short-sighted and realizing the Offense needed some coaching help bring in Hostler, a real gem when it comes to maximizing the talent and skills of WRs, and what do the BILLS have? Two young developing WRs and probably a third to follow in May, and he will help coach and scheme an Offense.... Overall point is this: we are all frustrated by the lack of winning and success for the BILLS....we are all tired of watching our beloved BILLS take it on the chin week in and week out, only to have the media ridicule their every move in the Off-Season and have one pundit after another berate them for "stupidity" and for "cheap" moves while pointing to the playoff drought...unfortunately, much like finding yourself in a big hole, there is no easy way out, no magic pill or wave of a wand....it will take time and patience, the two things we fans have run out of, yet it's those things that are required to actually become what we want this team to be: a long-term winning franchise that becomes the veritable model of a champion....you want the road to the Super Bowl to go through Buffalo? Patience, insight, wisdom, and time.....hard pills to swallow, but necessary. Well put - I agree with everything you mentioned None of it can explain what the hell we are doing with the Left Guard position. After last season, the evidence was overwhelming that putting shite players at LG DOES have a negative effect on the offenses ability to execute. Hoping that the shite LG we picked up in FA is a place holder just in case we miss our target in the 2nd or 3rd round of the draft.
1B4IDie Posted March 13, 2014 Author Posted March 13, 2014 You lose a guy Byrd who is top 3 in his position - you sign a good special teams player Graham and then Sign Chris Williams and Keith Rivers who are almost universally considered players who you do not want as your starters - I fail to see how this is an excellent job in free agency- those 3 signings cost more than what Byrd got or Byrd's franchise tag. THERE IS ZERO RELATIONSHIP WITH THE AMOUNT OF MONEY THE BILLS OFFERED BYRD AND BYRD SIGNING WITH THE BILLS. The Bills were likely the highest bidder in the Byrd sweepstakes. So what does adding up the contracts of the 2014 Bills Free agent signing have to do with signing Byrd? It wasn't a choice the Bills made "Well I have 9 Mil that I can spend. Should I spend it on Byrd or a handful of other players?" It is clueless to think any decision like that was made by the Bills FO. If Byrd would have agreed to his contract offer, this free agents at their same contract would have still been brought in. The two are not closely related. The Bills have more than enough money under the cap for Both. Byrd wanted out. He wanted to play for a proven winner. The Bills are not a proven winner. Get over it, Byrd is gone.
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