Max997 Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 (edited) The thing is there really wasn't a good replacement for Byrd out there. Mike Mitchell may have been adequate. But almost all of the "big name" safeties that signed yesterday were SS/in the box types, not FS/center fielder types. Byrd's replacement is already on the roster as the plan all along was just to move Williams to FS. The concern is who plays SS now. Does Searcy get first crack or do they keep him in role he was in last year and let Duke and Meeks battle it out. This board will lose it if they draft a safety with the 9th pick Edited March 12, 2014 by Max997
thebandit27 Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 Byrd's replacement is already on the roster as the plan all along was just to move Williams to FS. The concern is who plays SS now. Does Searcy get first crack or do they keep him in role he was in last year and let Duke and Meeks battle it out My understanding is that Duke steps into the starting role at SS--barring any FA/draft addition--and Searcy stays in his role as the 3rd safety
GG Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 I hear you...there was also speculation that Buffalo offered $30M in the first 3 years, so I feel like we're all over the map and nobody can say with any confidence what was, in fact, offered. As for the deal being done last year, again I ask: how does anyone know that Byrd would've taken any deal Buffalo offered last year, when he wasn't willing to do so this year? And my original post was centered around the generalization that Buffalo doesn't keep their elite players...I think what you're really saying is that they didn't keep Byrd. I think jw is going to go blue in the face (and not just at happy hour) at that meme. The $30mil over three years was going to be the total that Byrd could have earned under Buffalo's contract. It was not a guaranteed amount. There are still no definitive details of what the Bills offered, but please don't use the $30 mil figure, because it's not a good comparison. There's nothing to make me believe that Byrd would not have signed a market level deal last year if Bills had offered it to him. Again, we don't know what Bills offered, but we do have a good idea that it was at or below Goldson's deal, plus the negotiation were acrimonious because thin-skinned Overdorf was leading them. I'm betting that if Whaley had a larger role last year, the outcome would have been different. Bills don't keep elite players, because elite players are far and few in between for this franchise over the last 15 years. They've done a horrible job drafting, except 2009, but now there's only one guy left from that draft. In turn they pay a massive contract to a marquee FA, yet fill other holes with scrub street free agents and repeat the same thing year after year. As I said before, it's not the loss of Byrd that will matter, it's how they manage that roster hole.
davspo Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 So why no tag and trade? IF the saint were willing to pay that without cap space, they surely would have given a draft pick for him. Again, everyone (Byrd and Saints) gets what they want and the Bills get nothing. That's what happens when you have a minor league front office going against seasoned professionals.
thebandit27 Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 I think jw is going to go blue in the face (and not just at happy hour) at that meme. The $30mil over three years was going to be the total that Byrd could have earned under Buffalo's contract. It was not a guaranteed amount. There are still no definitive details of what the Bills offered, but please don't use the $30 mil figure, because it's not a good comparison. There's nothing to make me believe that Byrd would not have signed a market level deal last year if Bills had offered it to him. Again, we don't know what Bills offered, but we do have a good idea that it was at or below Goldson's deal, plus the negotiation were acrimonious because thin-skinned Overdorf was leading them. I'm betting that if Whaley had a larger role last year, the outcome would have been different. Bills don't keep elite players, because elite players are far and few in between for this franchise over the last 15 years. They've done a horrible job drafting, except 2009, but now there's only one guy left from that draft. In turn they pay a massive contract to a marquee FA, yet fill other holes with scrub street free agents and repeat the same thing year after year. As I said before, it's not the loss of Byrd that will matter, it's how they manage that roster hole. I did not say that the $30M was guaranteed...I said that what was reported was that the deal "would be worth $30M in the first 3 years". There's much else of your post I disagree with, but it doesn't look like we're on the same page, so I'll just move on. So why no tag and trade? IF the saint were willing to pay that without cap space, they surely would have given a draft pick for him. Again, everyone (Byrd and Saints) gets what they want and the Bills get nothing. That's what happens when you have a minor league front office going against seasoned professionals. That's a pretty massive leap of logic right there.
Awwufelloff Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 We don't know what Bills offered, but news speculation was that Bills were $1 mill/yr below what Saints offered. My guess is that the deal cratered around the guarantees, where Bills were not willing to go to $28 mil guaranteed. But the issue isn't this year. The deal needed to be done last year or before. Here is the correct answer unfortunately.
RealityCheck Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 I agree completely. I'm pissed Byrd is gone, but I've also posted multiple times that I want a QB competition and that I don't believe in handing EJ anything. If Manziel is there at 9 - draft him. You know, I get the conventional wisdom in trying to get QBs with prototypical size, but that dude is just dam good. He did a lot with very little help. It's one thing to have a guy like Mike Evans on your team, but's it's quite another thing to get the ball to him the way Johnny Football did. Fearless, relentless, aggressive. The Bills need some of that. Thad had shown more fire in-games than EJ despite his own limitations. EJ is an enigma right now.
Sisyphean Bills Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 I hear you...there was also speculation that Buffalo offered $30M in the first 3 years, so I feel like we're all over the map and nobody can say with any confidence what was, in fact, offered. As for the deal being done last year, again I ask: how does anyone know that Byrd would've taken any deal Buffalo offered last year, when he wasn't willing to do so this year? And my original post was centered around the generalization that Buffalo doesn't keep their elite players...I think what you're really saying is that they didn't keep Byrd. The unfortunate corollary is that the Bills have drafted so poorly prior to the Levitre, Byrd class that "elite players" is a mislabel.
Wattdogg35 Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 Byrd is/was over-hyped!! how can you not see that? Jim Leonard had just as many int's as byrd did, played half as many games. also had a fumble recovery or two...byrd is a "ball hawk" b/c he just floated around waiting for a tipped pass...never made a "huge" tackle, like you see Leodis or gilmore or A. williams do many many times. did you ever see the guy running side by side the receiver making a play? no! and don't tell me safety's aren't supposed to do that, b/c sometimes the do. he's overrated and nothing but a selfish "money hawk" and I was truly hoping he didn't get they money he wanted and then came back to B'lo where we would then tell him to stick it! obviously it didn't happen, but wish him nothing but bad luck with the Saints!
GG Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 There's much else of your post I disagree with, but it doesn't look like we're on the same page, so I'll just move on. You disagree that Overdorf's stance with Parker led to acrimonious negotiations or that Bills have had horrible drafts in the last 15 years, other than 2009?
H2o Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 Elite like Byrd, Lynch, and Peters? Those three players have departed in the last 5 years and brought the Bills only Eric Wood as a starting player. And I'm not even talking Levitre and Posluszny. See the trend? If a team is average at drafting, which the Bills haven't been, then how do you get better when you're losing a solid or better contributor every year and signing lower to mid tier UFA's? You're only maintaining what you've got, which is a 9 or more loss team for going on a decade. As much of an optimist as I tend to be the Win/Loss totals do not lie. We have either cut loose or allowed to walk many good players over the last few years. It's hard to say whether this is out organization being cheap or the fact that people just don't want to be here. In Byrd's case he got PAID and he now gets to hang out in New Orleans on the regular. Is that not a more desirable location for a young man in his mid 20's? In all of this who says that the people who have left town even wanted to stay? A team will not be able to win if they have to overpay everyone. That means we would end up in cap hell constantly only being able to keep players for a couple of years, cut them, and watch them leave anyway as well as dealing with all of the scrambling to fill out our roster. Players come and players go anywhere in this league. Our situation is just magnified by the fact of the debacle that we have seen with coaching staffs, drafting woes, and the boobs that we have running the show in the FO.
thebandit27 Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 You disagree that Overdorf's stance with Parker led to acrimonious negotiations or that Bills have had horrible drafts in the last 15 years, other than 2009? I'm not going to argue with you. Buffalo's drafts since 2009 have been a mixed bag, not horrible. I don't agree with that. I also don't agree that Overdorf's stance had anything--at all--to do with Byrd's situation. Overdorf gets the general terms from the GM and does the negotiations--you know, the same as every other team in the NFL. There's no conspiracy here. There's other items, but that should do to mollify your curiosity.
Kirby Jackson Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 Elite like Byrd, Lynch, and Peters? Those three players have departed in the last 5 years and brought the Bills only Eric Wood as a starting player. And I'm not even talking Levitre and Posluszny. See the trend? If a team is average at drafting, which the Bills haven't been, then how do you get better when you're losing a solid or better contributor every year and signing lower to mid tier UFA's? You're only maintaining what you've got, which is a 9 or more loss team for going on a decade. We don't know how the Byrd money will be spent so that's an incomplete. I said above that I thougt that Lynch was a mistake but they had Freddie and drafted Spiller. Getting rid of Marshawn was not necessarily the wrong decision but getting junk for him was. They got a 1st round pick for Peters. That's good value even though Peters is certainly elite. Your point is well taken but I believe that the drafting has been good the last few years. The real question mark is QB. If he can't play nothing else really matters.
Sisyphean Bills Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 You disagree that Overdorf's stance with Parker led to acrimonious negotiations or that Bills have had horrible drafts in the last 15 years, other than 2009? Is it too late to use the re-signing of Ryan Fitzpatrick here?
Coach Tuesday Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 I'm not going to argue with you. Buffalo's drafts since 2009 have been a mixed bag, not horrible. I don't agree with that. I also don't agree that Overdorf's stance had anything--at all--to do with Byrd's situation. Overdorf gets the general terms from the GM and does the negotiations--you know, the same as every other team in the NFL. There's no conspiracy here. There's other items, but that should do to mollify your curiosity. Can I ask you a question? Why do you feel the need to pathologically defend OBD around here? It seems like whatever the topic is, you're leading the defensive stand on behalf of the Bills' front office, which has an abysmal record of failure over the past 14 years and seems to be repeating the same mistakes over and over again.
GG Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 I'm not going to argue with you. Buffalo's drafts since 2009 have been a mixed bag, not horrible. I don't agree with that. I also don't agree that Overdorf's stance had anything--at all--to do with Byrd's situation. Overdorf gets the general terms from the GM and does the negotiations--you know, the same as every other team in the NFL. There's no conspiracy here. There's other items, but that should do to mollify your curiosity. In most NFL franchises, the capologist reports to the GM. In Buffalo, the relationship is a bit different, because the capologist doesn't report to the GM and has a lot more leeway with roster decisions. At least that was the case until last year, and it stands to be seen if the current palace revolt will change the nature of how things are run.
thebandit27 Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 Can I ask you a question? Why do you feel the need to pathologically defend OBD around here? It seems like whatever the topic is, you're leading the defensive stand on behalf of the Bills' front office, which has an abysmal record of failure over the past 14 years and seems to be repeating the same mistakes over and over again. You're horribly mis-reading me. I don't defend OBD unless I think they're being unjustly criticized. I wanted Byrd tagged, as I've said MANY times. I also don't think he's worth paying $9M/year, just as I didn't think Levitre was worth paying $8M/year. I'm not sure why you think it's (a) correct, (b) appropriate, or © justifiable to do amateur psychology on a message board, but hey, there's a lot of things I don't understand around here.
PromoTheRobot Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 I love these threads, as if there is a move the Bills can make that whiners won't complain about.
....lybob Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 I love these threads, as if there is a move the Bills can make that whiners won't complain about. 14 years without a playoff appearance the Bills can cry for mercy but they can't call criticism injustice
Fingon Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 What were the Bills supposed to do, match that offer? NO was only able to offer that much cash and years because they only have a couple years left at contention. The Saints will use Byrd fora year or two then cut him. Dead space doesn't matter because the Saints will be crappy until they find Brees replacement. They way they've managed their cap, the only possible outcome is a Dallas style fires ale. That's ok though the Saints know they will suck soon so they are going for it
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