gumby Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 So getting rid of welfare will be like enacting another 13th Amendment? I always thought that blacks were really, really poor prior to the welfare state coming along, yet this person is saying the welfare state ruined them? I say the black community is still suffering from the legacy of slavery, racism and Jim Crow You forgot the KKK. You know those guys, the terrorist wing of the Democratic Party. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 (edited) Here is a wiki article about growth of black middle class which basically started with civil rights movement http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_middle_class You forgot the KKK. You know those guys, the terrorist wing of the Democratic Party. You are so ignorant. Is Obama leading that same party?? God, it's amazing how stupid someone can be. Are you like Tom or GG with another handle? Edited March 7, 2014 by gatorman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gumby Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 Here is a wiki article about growth of black middle class which basically started with civil rights movement http://en.wikipedia....ck_middle_class You are so ignorant. Is Obama leading that same party?? God, it's amazing how stupid someone can be. Are you like Tom or GG with another handle? I must have hit a nerve. I never mentioned Obama you just did. You mentioned slavery, Jim Crow, racism, that's much of the proud history of the Democrats Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 Yup, he did just what you do, instead of backing up his asinine climb he asked more questions. And my questions led us to the conclusion that you're full of ****. That's why you refused to answer them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 You're confusing welfare with the Civil Rights movement. The later moved the needle on black prosperity, the former hasn't. They were both part of the Great Society, though. But, de-industrialization was also starting up, as was more globalization. Both important factors to consider. The article blaming welfare for everything and leaving historical circumstances, economic change and the fact that blacks entered the post civil rights movement with very little to build on, unlike say, Mitt Romney who was born rich and is still rich. And my questions led us to the conclusion that you're full of ****. That's why you refused to answer them. No, your questions are simply dodges so you don't have to show how ignorant you are. You hide behind your questions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 (edited) We've been over this before: You don't get my data until you've shown me yours. You were the first to make a claim. Back it up. I have my data, and I'll share it after you share yours. Actually, I'll share my data. I assume a national survey conducted annually by the Federal Reserve should be sufficeint? The first year the survey was conducted was in 1962. Please Reference: 1962 Survey of Financial Characteristics of Consumers and 1963 Survey of Changes in Family Characteristics, Dorothy S. Projector, 1968 For comparative analysis, please reference: Changes in U.S. Family Finances from 2007 - 2010: Evidence from the Survey of Consumer Finances, Jesse Bricker, Arthur B. Kennickell, Kevin B. Moore, and John Sabelhaus Edited March 7, 2014 by TakeYouToTasker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 I must have hit a nerve. I never mentioned Obama you just did. You mentioned slavery, Jim Crow, racism, that's much of the proud history of the Democrats That is such a stupid point. So what? The Democratic party of today is not the Democratic party of Slavery, Jim Crow or kkk. Yes, you did hit a nerve, though, dealing with a complete idiot like you can be frustrating Actually, I'll share my data. I assume a national survey conducted annually by the Federal Reserve should be sufficeint? The first year the survey was conducted was in 1962. Please Reference: 1962 Survey of Financial Characteristics of Consumers and 1963 Survey of Changes in Family Characteristics, Dorothy S. Projector, 1968 For comparative analysis, please reference: Changes in U.S. Family Finances from 2007 - 2010: Evidence from the Survey of Consumer Finances, Jesse Bricker, Arthur B. Kennickell, Kevin B. Moore, and John Sabelhaus Wo wo, what? You mean it can not be accessed on line? Lol, now that is some funny chit. You should write out what it says Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 They were both part of the Great Society, though. But, de-industrialization was also starting up, as was more globalization. Both important factors to consider. The article blaming welfare for everything and leaving historical circumstances, economic change and the fact that blacks entered the post civil rights movement with very little to build on, unlike say, Mitt Romney who was born rich and is still rich. No, your questions are simply dodges so you don't have to show how ignorant you are. You hide behind your questions No my friend part of what I do for a living is ask questions. Each and every one of them has a purpose. For example proving that based on how you feel Obama should have handled the Ukraine you agree with the way Bush handled Georgia. Admit it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 http://www.bloomberg...rights-movement Actually, there is research to support my position. ALOL... You went with an opinion piece and a blurb in a Wikipedia entry? Sorry, I'm going to stick with the national surveys conducted by the Federal Reserve, indexed to inflation, examining household wealth. That is such a stupid point. So what? The Democratic party of today is not the Democratic party of Slavery, Jim Crow or kkk. Yes, you did hit a nerve, though, dealing with a complete idiot like you can be frustrating Wo wo, what? You mean it can not be accessed on line? Lol, now that is some funny chit. You should write out what it says I've sourced it. Do your work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 ALOL... You went with an opinion piece and a blurb in a Wikipedia entry? Sorry, I'm going to stick with the national surveys conducted by the Federal Reserve, indexed to inflation, examining household wealth. I've sourced it. Do your work. you are criticizing my sources? You are defending a GOPPAC article posted by 3rding for God's sake and then you totally dodged the backing up your claim by posting some total bs you can't explain. What am I suppose to find in those documents? You totally pulled them out of your ass. My sources trump your sources, and trump the original article you defend which is a propaganda piece. Good job! I gotta go pick up my little angel, I'm out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted March 7, 2014 Author Share Posted March 7, 2014 you are criticizing my sources? You are defending a GOPPAC article posted by 3rding for God's sake and then you totally dodged the backing up your claim by posting some total bs you can't explain. What am I suppose to find in those documents? You totally pulled them out of your ass. My sources trump your sources, and trump the original article you defend which is a propaganda piece. Good job! I gotta go pick up my little angel, I'm out! Walter E. Williams is a professor of economics at George Mason University. I posted his opinion piece as a basis for this thread. You don't like it and call it propaganda and use Wiki as a tool to refute? Even pBills wasn't this sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 you are criticizing my sources? You are defending a GOPPAC article posted by 3rding for God's sake and then you totally dodged the backing up your claim by posting some total bs you can't explain. What am I suppose to find in those documents? You totally pulled them out of your ass. My sources trump your sources, and trump the original article you defend which is a propaganda piece. Good job! I gotta go pick up my little angel, I'm out! Your OpEd and Wiki blurb trump the source data? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted March 8, 2014 Share Posted March 8, 2014 IMHO, the welfare and support we as a nations have provided for Black Americans probably helped intitially, and it had an efficacy after Civil Rights movement... but it is pretty obvious by most measurements that it is not longer working, rather holding that demographic down. So the question is not who to blame for the problems, but rather the first steps to fixing them, and building on those fixes and successes. It was a crutch, and like most crutches it helps when it's really needed, but counter-productive when you no longer do. And that's the real question people (blacks, but also other minorities) have to ask themselves: at what point is the legal and social framework established by the Civil Rights movement holding them back more than helping? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gumby Posted March 8, 2014 Share Posted March 8, 2014 That is such a stupid point. So what? The Democratic party of today is not the Democratic party of Slavery, Jim Crow or kkk. Yes, you did hit a nerve, though, dealing with a complete idiot like you can be frustrating I grant you it's not as overt but the home of racism is still the political left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted March 8, 2014 Share Posted March 8, 2014 Here is a wiki article about growth of black middle class which basically started with civil rights movement http://en.wikipedia....ck_middle_class Great so the black middle class has grown. What about the poor blacks. How have they risen since the great social experiment? Come to Oakland and I'll show you. Not an inch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted March 8, 2014 Share Posted March 8, 2014 Great so the black middle class has grown. What about the poor blacks. How have they risen since the great social experiment? Come to Oakland and I'll show you. Not an inch. Welfare was a compromise that has failed. We Liberal Democrats would have created jobs but the Conservative elements screamed bloody murder as too expensive, so we only got a cheaper, much less affective policy that lifted people but only so much. It's sad that Civil Rights happened just a deindustrialization was taking place. Lots of blacks were able to get jobs that had been denied them before in factories like Lackawana Steel up here or in north Carolina textile shops, but then those jobs were gone with the wind. Had black people in say 1900 been able to get the same jobs a whites then there would be a he'll of a lot fewer poor blacks today. Saying welfare create black poverty is simplistic, a historical and political Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted March 8, 2014 Author Share Posted March 8, 2014 Welfare has either created the new black poverty or extended the old black poverty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted March 8, 2014 Share Posted March 8, 2014 Welfare was a compromise that has failed. We Liberal Democrats would have created jobs but the Conservative elements screamed bloody murder as too expensive, so we only got a cheaper, much less affective policy that lifted people but only so much. It's sad that Civil Rights happened just a deindustrialization was taking place. Lots of blacks were able to get jobs that had been denied them before in factories like Lackawana Steel up here or in north Carolina textile shops, but then those jobs were gone with the wind. Had black people in say 1900 been able to get the same jobs a whites then there would be a he'll of a lot fewer poor blacks today. Saying welfare create black poverty is simplistic, a historical and political Welfare created black poverty? No it perpetuates it. You liberal Democrats did create jobs, the WPA, a perfect test study that the government does not create lasting jobs. You just don't get the difference between creating jobs and creating an incentive to create jobs and work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keepthefaith Posted March 8, 2014 Share Posted March 8, 2014 Looking at this by race is not useful to me. There is a set of characteristics and bad decision making on the part of the individual that prevents people of any color from attaining even modest success in life. We've had a number of people work at our company who I would call rehab projects and they have been of all colors. For the most part they have all crashed and burned even when we provided them with a decent opportunity and more help than most others. None have stayed with the company for more than a year or so and a few have ended up in jail or other legal trouble. Nearly all of them have the same background coming from broken families, had poor or incomplete high school results and failed to do the basic things at a job that allow for success such as show up on time every day and give a respectable effort. Throw in some dishonesty also. I suspect most employers have extended a helping hand to individuals such as this at one time or another and more often than not gotten similar results. Sure some people get their act together but my experience says most don't. So over time employers learn not to hire such people because they aren't the best candidates and they can't be relied upon. Basically these people are unemployable in anything but the strongest economy where the labor supply is short. As a company we are done making risky hires. The liberal safety net for such people simply makes it easier for the recipients to continue making bad decisions. If you subsidize poverty and lousy productivity, you simply get more of it. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted March 8, 2014 Share Posted March 8, 2014 We Liberal Democrats would have created jobs but the Conservative elements screamed bloody murder as too expensive, so we only got a cheaper, much less affective policy that lifted people but only so much. What exactly does that mean? What are these brilliant 'job creation' efforts that the poor Democrats have been forced to abandon? What jobs are currently unfilled? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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