Tim Graham was on Sirius radio this morning.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

Sometimes you have to over pay a guy to not create another hole to fill. If we kept even some of those guys our FA and draft moves may have been vastly different.

 

Unless you'd rather fill that hole with a $1or $2 million dollar peg over $10 million dollar peg. And spend the change on fixing another problem, one that impacts your ability to win games. This as opposed to spending on a position charged with stopping an opposing player after a 30 yard gain.

Edited March 3, 2014 by over 20 years of fanhood

[Doc]

I caught it a few minutes in as he was finishing up about Byrd. After that here was some of the "highlights". He had no problem airing the dirty laundry of our division in the front office between the Old Timers and the New Breed. He is a big advocate of Marrone and he is NOT a player for EJ at all! Matter of fact he actually kind of gave a little snicker when he brought up Manuel. Made it a point to mention our lack of play-offs, which is fair but when he finished Zig Fracassi and Amanti Toomer had a pretty good har har as they were appalled from the realization of our play-off absence. He also talked about sending the wrong message to the rest of lockerroom. Not only are the Bills not taking care of our own home grown players but they are also allowing one of our playmakers to just leave which in turn makes it harder to be a winning team. Graham wasn't wrong in what he was saying but I can't say that I enjoyed hearing what I heard. I guess sometimes the truth really does hurt.

No surprise, considering EJ dismissed him like a buzzing fly in that interview. I'm sure EJ would snicker if you brought up TImmy's name as well.

 

As for Byrd, they made a more than generous offer. He rejected it. The Bills were 2-3 without him, 3-6 with him starting, and 1-1 with him working his way back. His loss won't be a major blow to the team.

[Big Turk]

Come on. I can not believe that the Bills would be so stupid to offer Byrd $10M a year for 3 years- the guy is not worth that much $6-7M per on a 3 year is more like it. Please consider: Byrd did share the Bills lead for interceptions last year with 4 interceptions. He was tied with the 67 year old Leohard, who is now asking for an exception to be able to take his walker out on the field..........Have you ever heard of a team being scared to play the Bills because "the Bills have Byrd as their safety"? (That is what a 10 million dollar man should get you)...........Have you ever heard of a wider receiver getting the droppsies or short arms because he was about to get nailed by Byrd downfield? (That is what a 10 million dollar....)....................Did you every wonder why so many tight ends earned a living against our defense by running away from the linebackers (who should not be expected to cover the TE all over the field) and not being bothered by a safety until after a long gain. Missing in action and responsibility was......(da $10M man).........................Did you ever wonder on the replays of so many of the long yardage pass gains against the Bills, why is the cornerback all alone? ($10M.....)...............Did you ever wonder, on so many of Byrd's interceptions, how the Bills could have so many players in the region of the football- did we have an extra player on the field, or was some other area left undefended on a gamble by the $10M man.......................No I think Byrd is a good safety, but is more of a $6-7M guy at best. He is a bit of a gambler,, who will get some picks for his resume but be missing on other plays, but not blamed because he is so much out of the camera shot, so it is not even funny. He DOES NOT have the speed to make up for the freelancing. He makes a living on gambling on overloading zones. He does not have the speed to cover the top speed receivers, nor the size or will to pop receivers with hard tackles for intimidation and dropped passes. He is getting older, slower and greedier. PLEASE REMEMBER who drafted this guy.

 

[

 

The report was the offer on the table was for 5 years north of $50 mil. If that's the case, Byrd and Parker can shove it up their ass...I hope he gets hurt and cut after the 2nd year wherever he goes...that punk

[stuckinny]

Hopefully gets hurt like Nate odoms in a pick up basketball game!

[Ronin]

believe whatever you want. The past gas absolutely nothing to do with our future. Just because there were players in the early 2000s that weren't resigned doesn't mean we won't resign them now. Freddy Jackson, Stevie Johnson, Eric Wood, Craig Urbik, Kyle Williams, Leodis McKelvin, Terrance McGee would all disagree with your argument.

 

Players that have not been resigned, many of them fall under the category of overpaid for their services, much like the Mario Williams argument that your bring up about the Bills. Levitre, Pozlusny come to mind. They were not worth being paid top pay at their positions and I don't know about you, I'm glad we didn't overpay for their services. I couldn't imagine the hysteria of paying a guy like Poz or Levitre $50million when we all complain about Stevie Johnsons $36m.

 

On that note, you can't have it both ways. Complain about players that we did resign for too much that aren't worth it (Stevie for example) and yet complain that we didn't overpay and lost a player "again because were cheap" (Pozlusny). Me personally, and I think many here can agree that the Bills have been pretty level headed about who we didn't resign, even though we would have liked to, are glad we didn't overpay.

 

Then there are other players we didn't resign because they were just too damn old or constantly injured. Pozlusny also falls under this category. The guy missed more games than he played in whole he was here. I don't want to overpay for a player that we can't rely on, on game day. Tikeo Spikes, London Fletcher, Jason Peters also fall under this category. Although they have or did play for years after their release from this team, doesn't mean they weren't risks because of their ages or injury history. London Fletcher is an enigma. He doesn't make sense in the NFL. It's about on point with how long Brett Favre played. Again, I think many people here would agree not to pay, or overpay for a player that is on the wrong side of 30 or has many questions with stating healthy.

 

Then there's the trading players for minimal reimbursement. If you are one of the people that really wanted to keep Marshawn Lynch, then you won't care what I say anyway. But a man that had 2 run ins with the law in 2 years, Already suffered a 4 game suspension, and was on track for another (which he is still fighting in Seattle now) is not the kind of guy yiu want in your team. The stupidity factor is no different from the injury aspect. You cannot rely on your player to be there on Sunday because of stupidity. Other players that fall under this would surely be Jason Peters. Site he was good, but at the end of the day, if you can't rely on him to be there on game day (injury, holdout, etc.) then you don't overpay for him or count on him. You get what you can get for him. Which we did.

 

And then on to the argument that only the Bills suffer from these instances. Any person who thinks only the Bills have troubles with these issues is being silly. Every team loses players. Players they draft and homegrow for thier futures only to lose them. Jay Cutler, Payton Manning, Brandon Marshall, Mario Williams, Julius Peppers, Clinton Portis, Richard Seymour, Alex Smith, Matt Flynn, Anquan Boldin, Wes Welker, Reggie Bush, Terrell Owens, Champ Bailey, Randy Moss, Ronnie Brown, Tyson Clabo, Tony Gonzales, Antonio Cromartie, Santonio Holmes, Nnamdi Asomugh, Derrell Revis. And those are just off the top of my head over the past recent years.

 

But if you and Tim Graham want to keep going on thinking that only the Bills are guilty of this, then have at it.

 

Enjoy your Monday.

 

and then there's that.

 

You read into my argument way, way too far.

 

This team has has precious few players to build a winning team and playoff contender around.

 

Using Levitre as an example isn't right because he was injured. There's no proof that he would have been injured here. Kind of like when you walk out of your house, get in your car, and get into an accident. Likely that had you delayed your trip by five minutes that wouldn't have happened. We can't say that he would have sucked here for the foreseeable future because of one season like that, and on an entirely different team with different players to either side of him in a unit that demands more chemistry among players than any other.

 

Having said that I wasn't opposed to the team not overpaying for him and had little trouble with his release, or non-re-signing that is, but primarily because he did have potential injury issues. If not, then yes, they should have kept him.

 

I have little trouble with most ot the players we've released, primarily because so few were actually good.

 

The problem is with the initial contracts to begin with. Paying thru the nose for players like Fitzpatrick and Mario limits, severely, what we can do elsewhere. That's all.

 

Meanwhile, they'll overpay a number of other second rate FAs just to get them here which added up might have been the difference for Byrd, a real playmaker, something that this team sorely lacks on both sides.

 

There is having nothing both ways, this team has been a one-way skid into pro football futility that's been led by their own decision-making.

 

But if you're going to keep letting go of arguably your top producers, how far can what's left take you? ... and why should we hold out hope that players like Alonso will even be here in five more seasons? There isn't any reason for hope in that way.

 

Make sense?

 

The report was the offer on the table was for 5 years north of $50 mil. If that's the case, Byrd and Parker can shove it up their ass...I hope he gets hurt and cut after the 2nd year wherever he goes...that punk

 

The ones left "shoving things up their asses" is us, as fans. We're left to shove the futility of this org up there. If you so choose to do so. I choose to opt out until that kick in the groin stops coming every year due to gross mismanagement throughout the org.

 

Being a Bills fan may not be an option, but how much time, energy, and resources we put into it surely is. They're not getting a dime from me until they have a FO in place that knows its bunghole from a hole in the ground.

 

As for Byrd, they made a more than generous offer. He rejected it. The Bills were 2-3 without him, 3-6 with him starting, and 1-1 with him working his way back. His loss won't be a major blow to the team.

 

That's the kind of emotional thinking that made this team what it currently is.

 

This team was 6-10, the average of any number of games in winning percentage is .375.

 

Kiko Alonso played all 16 games and was 6-10. Should we tell him to shove off too?

 

Very astute.

Edited March 3, 2014 by TaskersGhost

[mrags]

I'll agree with some of that Tasker.

 

I definately agree with yiu that Byrd needs to be resigned. He's not just an important piece. He's arguably our best player on both sides of the ball. Only Mario, Kyle, Marcell can challenge him for that IMO, with Wood and Glenn being about as close as you can get on offense.

 

I agree that resigning good players is something that we need to do and not let them walk. I also agree that the players we've let go of in the past may not have been as good as their contracts.

 

Overpaying is all a matter of opinion, IMO. Sure we overpaid for Fitz with comparing what he did for us and how long we got use out of him. But all in all it wasn't much of an overpaying compared to the rest of the starting QBs in the league. It was right up there in the middle of the pack or 2nd half. When factoring in his win/ loss record, you'd want him to get more but at the same time, guys on worse teams with lesser records were making just as much. Don't blame Fitz or the Bills organization for the going rate for quarterbacks or any other position for that matter. It is what it is.

 

People want to be upset at how much professional sports players, actors, CEOs make in the world these days. We are to blame. The fans. The ones that pack every single movie theatre, and sports complex. It's big business now. It's not just a game or a movie. It's part of society. We cannot blame the players for their salaries. Don't be upset with them for being overpaid if that's the going rate.

[Doc]

That's the kind of emotional thinking that made this team what it currently is.

 

This team was 6-10, the average of any number of games in winning percentage is .375.

 

Kiko Alonso played all 16 games and was 6-10. Should we tell him to shove off too?

 

Very astute.

This team "is what it is" because they haven't been able to find a QB in what has become a QB-driven league. If EJ progresses to where everyone wants him to be, Byrd's loss will be a complete non-factor. The only "emotional thinking" is believing that overpaying someone in order to avoid creating another hole is smart. It isn't. Especially when that position has traditionally been the lowest-paid one and now become a floor for other Pro Bowlers on defense the Bills will be trying to re-sign.

[CardinalScotts]

how the hell does Tim Graham get on the radio as the "information man" Mr. Re-tweet

[The Big Cat]

Does Byrd lose "importance" in the transition from Pettine to Schwartz?

[BB2004]

Can't say I can complain about the Bills not doing enough to keep Byrd. Three years and $30 Mil for a FS is a fair offer. He obviously wants to leave, so there is not much the FO can do about that. Time to find a replacement and move on.

Can't say I can complain about the Bills not doing enough to keep Byrd. Three years and $30 Mil for a FS is a fair offer. He obviously wants to leave, so there is not much the FO can do about that. Time to find a replacement and move on.

 

When you offer a player 3 years 30 million guaranteed and turns it down it probably means he doesn't want to be playing in Buffalo. I guess maybe management can go a little higher if necessary but I think you let this one go. I am not sure what that does in terms of our drafting plans which now could change drastically. It's pretty consistent in terms of bad news regarding our team for the last 14 years.

[K-9]

Two comments about the above:

1) Mario Williams is the most productive players on the Bills. His stats are great, and he takes blockers away from other defenders.

2) I would take Levitre over Stevie Johnson any day of the week. There are far more better receivers than SJ, and not so many OGs better than Levitre. Factor in a rookie qb and it's a no-brainer.

 

Jmo Ragman.

 

Yep. BY FAR our best defensive player. People who can't see that aren't paying attention.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Doc]

When you offer a player 3 years 30 million guaranteed and turns it down it probably means he doesn't want to be playing in Buffalo. I guess maybe management can go a little higher if necessary but I think you let this one go. I am not sure what that does in terms of our drafting plans which now could change drastically. It's pretty consistent in terms of bad news regarding our team for the last 14 years.

Is the 30M guaranteed pretty much known and accepted? If so, F him. By the time that 4th season rolls around, if he were to still continue to produce, he'd want a new deal anyway.

[Ronin]

I'll agree with some of that Tasker.

 

I definately agree with yiu that Byrd needs to be resigned. He's not just an important piece. He's arguably our best player on both sides of the ball. Only Mario, Kyle, Marcell can challenge him for that IMO, with Wood and Glenn being about as close as you can get on offense.

 

I agree that resigning good players is something that we need to do and not let them walk. I also agree that the players we've let go of in the past may not have been as good as their contracts.

 

Overpaying is all a matter of opinion, IMO. Sure we overpaid for Fitz with comparing what he did for us and how long we got use out of him. But all in all it wasn't much of an overpaying compared to the rest of the starting QBs in the league. It was right up there in the middle of the pack or 2nd half. When factoring in his win/ loss record, you'd want him to get more but at the same time, guys on worse teams with lesser records were making just as much. Don't blame Fitz or the Bills organization for the going rate for quarterbacks or any other position for that matter. It is what it is.

 

People want to be upset at how much professional sports players, actors, CEOs make in the world these days. We are to blame. The fans. The ones that pack every single movie theatre, and sports complex. It's big business now. It's not just a game or a movie. It's part of society. We cannot blame the players for their salaries. Don't be upset with them for being overpaid if that's the going rate.

 

Fitz is a backup caliber QB that was paid as a mid-range, if not greater, starter. So it wasn't what "all QBs were getting." Bona fide starting QBs maybe, which he wasn't and which was obvious to anyone that knew anything about football, which clearly wasn't our FO.

 

Dockery, overpaid. Langston Walker, overpaid. Marcus Stroud, overpaid. Tripplett overpaid although at a lesser tier. We've overpaid the wrong playres for years and I include Mario Williams who besides sacks is all but useless.

 

You can get bargains in this league, just ask Bill Belicheat. That's the challenge for any FO, which ours clealry isn't nor has been up to.

 

Either way, we agree that if you are going to overpay players, best to overpay the Byrd types. Again, we've had so few worth the thought of overpaying for years.

 

You're right about the rest, and as long as fans continue to pay for mediocrity, then there isn't much incentive for the team to be judicious or wise in its spending, is there.

 

This team "is what it is" because they haven't been able to find a QB in what has become a QB-driven league. If EJ progresses to where everyone wants him to be, Byrd's loss will be a complete non-factor. The only "emotional thinking" is believing that overpaying someone in order to avoid creating another hole is smart. It isn't. Especially when that position has traditionally been the lowest-paid one and now become a floor for other Pro Bowlers on defense the Bills will be trying to re-sign.

 

It's more than just a QB. Look at Denver, they have the best and still got blown out in the Super Bowl due to other major weaknesses on their team. We found out the obvious this year in NE, that Brady (a QB), cannot carry a team by himself.

 

For starters you need protection for that QB. The value of RBs has faded somewhat in this pass-oriented league, but they are still very much relevant and important to have a good 3-down RB.

Also, receivers. We hit on Woods, Johnson's a low-end starting caliber WR, but after that we really don't have much depth.

 

Defensively after Kiko we're empty at LB and the secondary now will be interesting w/o Byrd.

[Delete This Account]

How is 30 mil of guaranteed money over 3 years not taking care of your own?

 

if you are referring to the AP report on Byrd yesterday, you are mistaken in what you wrote.

the AP never reported the word guaranteed. it reported the Bills had offered Byrd a deal that would pay him about $30 million over the first three years of a multiyear contract. never was there any mention of what the guaranteed money would be.

 

jw

[Doc]

It's more than just a QB. Look at Denver, they have the best and still got blown out in the Super Bowl due to other major weaknesses on their team. We found out the obvious this year in NE, that Brady (a QB), cannot carry a team by himself.

 

For starters you need protection for that QB. The value of RBs has faded somewhat in this pass-oriented league, but they are still very much relevant and important to have a good 3-down RB.

Also, receivers. We hit on Woods, Johnson's a low-end starting caliber WR, but after that we really don't have much depth.

 

Defensively after Kiko we're empty at LB and the secondary now will be interesting w/o Byrd.

True a QB cannot carry a team by himself, but it is now the most important position on a team, without question. The Bills drafted one and I agree they need to protect him better and give him the tools to succeed, as well as give him all the experience he can get, and I'd favor them fixing the OL through FA and maybe adding a TE. As for defense, the Bills have Hughes, Lawson and Bradham at LB, but need another and can get one in the draft. And the secondary still has loads of talent.

[YoloinOhio]

I think whatever the guaranteed $ is the Bills made the deal to him they feel he is worth to THIS team. As with other teams with guys they want to keep but they know want to test the market to see if they can get more, they will not tag him and let him see what he can get on the open market. Maybe he gets more, maybe not. I assume he'll find a team that will with the cap increase. Either way, I don't think he returns because the relationship is broken since last year. I still see no point to tag him in this situation and I think the money can be used elsewhere to improve the team.

[808]

ed Werder just reported that byrd never turned down a 30 mil contract. both sides spinning the turd fan.

[NoSaint]

 

Is the 30M guaranteed pretty much known and accepted? If so, F him. By the time that 4th season rolls around, if he were to still continue to produce, he'd want a new deal anyway.

 

Turning down 30 in 3 hurts but I'll say parker advocates getting every dollar now and actually playing out the deal (note peters deal here wasn't his). I haven't dug it up for every deal but something I've heard more than once and Byrd not making any noise year 3 of his rookie deal supports it.

Edited March 3, 2014 by NoSaint

[Delete This Account]

ed Werder just reported that byrd never turned down a 30 mil contract. both sides spinning the turd fan.

 

ed werder is refuting air.

i'll be happy to refute that, too, because the AP never reported Byrd turned down the offer, or the offer was $30 million guaranteed.

 

jw

[808]

ed werder is refuting air.

i'll be happy to refute that, too, because the AP never reported Byrd turned down the offer, or the offer was $30 million guaranteed.

 

jw

 

 

yeah..both sides spinning the story they want the public to hear.