4merper4mer Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 It seems like football is getting more and more into political discussions. The N word penalty is is getting a lot of hype as is the Michael Sam story. I know how the N word thing ends.....with the Patriots getting an extra 15 yards when needed. I am wondering about Michael Sam. Will he get drafted before he deserves? After he deserves? Not at all? I don't know what to think. I have seen various projections on him. No matter where he is picked people will say it was too early and others will say it is too late. All of this is arbitrary. I think a better way to measure is to find a guy available in the draft whose skills closely match those of Sam. I thought it might be interesting for a thread. There is plenty of time before the draft to figure out a guy who is equal and have the people involved in the thread basically agree that he is equal to Sam. Then when watching the draft we can see who goes first and how long it take for the other to be drafted. Any of you draftniks want to find a guy that compares with Sam? This is sort of a political thread so I will duplicate it on PPP but it would be nice if it could stay on the main board and stay objective. On draft day we could be watching for Sam and this other guy and see what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4merper4mer Posted February 26, 2014 Author Share Posted February 26, 2014 It seems like football is getting more and more into political discussions. The N word penalty is is getting a lot of hype as is the Michael Sam story. I know how the N word thing ends.....with the Patriots getting an extra 15 yards when needed. I am wondering about Michael Sam. Will he get drafted before he deserves? After he deserves? Not at all? I don't know what to think. I have seen various projections on him. No matter where he is picked people will say it was too early and others will say it is too late. All of this is arbitrary. I think a better way to measure is to find a guy available in the draft whose skills closely match those of Sam. I thought it might be interesting for a thread. There is plenty of time before the draft to figure out a guy who is equal and have the people involved in the thread basically agree that he is equal to Sam. Then when watching the draft we can see who goes first and how long it take for the other to be drafted. Any of you draftniks want to find a guy that compares with Sam? This is sort of a political thread so I will duplicate it on PPP but it would be nice if it could stay on the main board and stay objective. On draft day we could be watching for Sam and this other guy and see what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 with regards to the nfl and social issues -- they are also threatening to pull the super bowl from arizona next year due to the discrimination legislation. wouldnt happen, but its still getting involved in social issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4merper4mer Posted February 26, 2014 Author Share Posted February 26, 2014 with regards to the nfl and social issues -- they are also threatening to pull the super bowl from arizona next year due to the discrimination legislation. wouldnt happen, but its still getting involved in social issues. It is in keeping with the title of the thread so I don't want to be a jerk, but can we keep this thread to the Sam thing. I find it more interesting to compare him to an individual than to say....he went in the 3rd but should have been 5th or went in the 5th but should have been 3rd. If it is Sam vs. "Jones" I think that is interesting. I am just not that up on the draft and who is the appropriate "Jones" to compare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 It'd be fun if he was picked last so the media would have to refer to him, finally, as Mr. Irrelevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Dog Named Kelso Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 with regards to the nfl and social issues -- they are also threatening to pull the super bowl from arizona next year due to the discrimination legislation. wouldnt happen, but its still getting involved in social issues. Why wouldn't it happen? They have done it before ... not sure why you you think they wouldn't do it again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir andrew Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 Maybe change the thread title then? I think that just the discussion of football becoming more popular and finding it's way into social issues is an intriguing one. Just my 2 cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 He'll probably go somewhere between a tight end and a wide receiver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 Why wouldn't it happen? They have done it before ... not sure why you you think they wouldn't do it again. because ive seen first hand the logistics that go into a modern super bowl and a decision on moving it on less then a years notice would require nothing short of the stadium collapsing in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobobonators Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 because ive seen first hand the logistics that go into a modern super bowl and a decision on moving it on less then a years notice would require nothing short of the stadium collapsing in my opinion. I believe it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 (edited) I won't pretend to know about Sam as a college football player, and what his prospects are as a pro. I do know, the day of the "announcement", I heard repeated a few times (ESPN types) that he was projected to be a "late 2nd to 3rd round" draft pick. Heard he was considered to be somewhere at the outer fringes of the 10 best pass rushers in the draft. Then as the story gathered steam, it just seemed, in NFL circles, to be accepted that he is a "3rd day" pick at best...maybe not even a draft prospect by some. It kind of happened as the story grew. All insist that where he is picked will be determined by his performance... I am not a huge draft-nik, but I did find it a little odd that there would even be a question, by some (I have now heard him referred to as a "core special teams player at best"), that the SEC Defensive player of the year would be draft worthy. My perception is that everyone in the NFL INC is playing this very carefully. I have not heard a single negative about him from any NFL executive, active coach, or team executive...just lauding him for being courageous. But, at the same time, it seems like guys who make their living off the teat of the NFL, while saying many of the same things about the kids character, are kind of cleverly downgrading him as a prospect. I realize, Sam did not have a spectacular combine, but the mantra the last couple of years (from those "who really know") seems to have been that the combine results mean less than the one on one interviews that teams have with prospects...by most all accounts, Sam handled himself very well with media and team interviews. So, it almost seems like the NFL has itself covered from all sides. I have little doubt that some team will draft him...and it very well might be a "publicity stunt". I could see the Jets taking him....have you seen the demand for Brooklyn Nets Jason Collins jerseys? Edited February 27, 2014 by Buftex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 I miss crayonz. At least his silly posts rambling about stuff had humor. In short: The NFL is not trying to inject itself in to social issues. The social issues are a part of football that cannot be left outside. Players from communities all across this country come together to make these teams. Therefore you have what many would believe is a microcosm of every day America. It it not. These are elite athletes who have risen to the top of their field and in many respects it would be like taking the very best CEO's across this country and putting them together in a unit. No matter who is what there is going to be someone, somewhere pointing a finger and saying "he _____ because he is/was _____." Whether Affirmative Action, Title IX, LGBMT movements, "pop-culture", NCAAP, etc - someone is going to stand up and say "_______." You can't please everyone and you can't change anyone. I can only be the person that I am and hope for change in others and carry myself in a way that holds all people equal regardless of sexual preferences, skin color, religious beliefs or if they are just Gugny. I don't hold it against someone for being who they are and what they believe in and I only hope the world makes the same effort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fansince88 Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 jboyst, I agree with your last paragraph . The world is trying to force me to like their lifestyle or decisions they make. I shouldnt have to like it just like they dont have to like the things I do. You are correct to not hold it against someone but if you dont agree is it right for them to hold that against you? I think not! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 (edited) jboyst, I agree with your last paragraph . The world is trying to force me to like their lifestyle or decisions they make. I shouldnt have to like it just like they dont have to like the things I do. You are correct to not hold it against someone but if you dont agree is it right for them to hold that against you? I think not! I realize you are talking to jboyst, but I think the issue of whether it is "right" (or however you want to say it) for them to "hold it against you", would depend on how you show your dislike or disapproval of their lifestyle or decisions. Is anyone really trying to force you to "like" their lifestyle or decisions, as much as they are asking you to accept the fact that they have the right to live the lifestyle they choose, and make the decisions they make? There is a difference. Edited February 27, 2014 by Buftex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4merper4mer Posted February 27, 2014 Author Share Posted February 27, 2014 (edited) I won't pretend to know about Sam as a college football player, and what his prospects are as a pro. I do know, the day of the "announcement", I heard repeated a few times (ESPN types) that he was projected to be a "late 2nd to 3rd round" draft pick. Heard he was considered to be somewhere at the outer fringes of the 10 best pass rushers in the draft. Then as the story gathered steam, it just seemed, in NFL circles, to be accepted that he is a "3rd day" pick at best...maybe not even a draft prospect by some. It kind of happened as the story grew. All insist that where he is picked will be determined by his performance... I am not a huge draft-nik, but I did find it a little odd that there would even be a question, by some (I have now heard him referred to as a "core special teams player at best"), that the SEC Defensive player of the year would be draft worthy. My perception is that everyone in the NFL INC is playing this very carefully. I have not heard a single negative about him from any NFL executive, active coach, or team executive...just lauding him for being courageous. But, at the same time, it seems like guys who make their living off the teat of the NFL, while saying many of the same things about the kids character, are kind of cleverly downgrading him as a prospect. I realize, Sam did not have a spectacular combine, but the mantra the last couple of years (from those "who really know") seems to have been that the combine results mean less than the one on one interviews that teams have with prospects...by most all accounts, Sam handled himself very well with media and team interviews. So, it almost seems like the NFL has itself covered from all sides. I have little doubt that some team will draft him...and it very well might be a "publicity stunt". I could see the Jets taking him....have you seen the demand for Brooklyn Nets Jason Collins jerseys? That is sort of what I am wondering. Was the prognosis given after his announcement realistic? Polian has called him very average or something along those lines. Is that true? I think to say round x is fair, before is too soon and after too late makes no sense. Teams have needs; if they want an OL they won't take him. That is why I am interested in a player in his position considered equally skilled. Seeing where Sam goes and if it is near that player in sequence or way off in either direction seems like a better measurement. Edited February 27, 2014 by 4merper4mer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 jboyst, I agree with your last paragraph . The world is trying to force me to like their lifestyle or decisions they make. I shouldnt have to like it just like they dont have to like the things I do. You are correct to not hold it against someone but if you dont agree is it right for them to hold that against you? I think not! I don't "like" being straight any more than I like being brown haired or flat-footed. They are facts of my existence. I love my wife, but I don't think by being married to her I am forcing anyone to like our marriage. Doesn't this all sound absurd? No one is trying to force you to like anything. Except Led Zeppelin. You really should like Led Zeppelin. They were great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 I don't "like" being straight any more than I like being brown haired or flat-footed. They are facts of my existence. I love my wife, but I don't think by being married to her I am forcing anyone to like our marriage. Doesn't this all sound absurd? No one is trying to force you to like anything. Except Led Zeppelin. You really should like Led Zeppelin. They were great. That much we agree on 100%!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 jboyst, I agree with your last paragraph . The world is trying to force me to like their lifestyle or decisions they make. I shouldnt have to like it just like they dont have to like the things I do. You are correct to not hold it against someone but if you dont agree is it right for them to hold that against you? I think not! All you can do in such a situation is continue to respect them and treat them nomdifferently. Some call it being the bigger man/woman but its not. It is just the way it should be but often is not. I find myself using the line "two wrongs don't make a right" to remember that someone who is different then I am and holds it against me as a reminder of how I need to behave. Maybe better put is in a question. Do you have to agree with someone to appreciate them? Because if so, Shirley, you'll find something you disagree with in everyone you know. Of course, at that point you must weigh out the situation using morals and whatnot. I don't "like" being straight any more than I like being brown haired or flat-footed. They are facts of my existence. I love my wife, but I don't think by being married to her I am forcing anyone to like our marriage. Doesn't this all sound absurd? No one is trying to force you to like anything. Except Led Zeppelin. You really should like Led Zeppelin. They were great. loving your wife is a choice you make. Being straight may be, too. Being brown haired, Meh you know the drill. You do not make it a choice with the people you work with, live with, etc. Shirley you realize they accept you for being a brown haired Led Zeplin married married to your wife. They either must accept it or not. Its not forcing anything I realize you are talking to jboyst, but I think the issue of whether it is "right" (or however you want to say it) for them to "hold it against you", would depend on how you show your dislike or disapproval of their lifestyle or decisions. Is anyone really trying to force you to "like" their lifestyle or decisions, as much as they are asking you to accept the fact that they have the right to live the lifestyle they choose, and make the decisions they make? There is a difference. BufTex, you are fascinating guy and with what i know of you from chats and the board I really appreciate you adding this. You can sift my ramblings to a more refined point. Accepting and forcing are two entirely different options. Forcing a culture of tolerance about race and sexuality are very subjective. 50 years ago in the South there was no tolerance for homosexuals and little toward minorities. Forced policies implemented by the government changed racial cultural. Today we are seeing changes similar to become more accepting of homosexuals. Tomorrow who knows what we will see, but as long as we only look to our own selves to accept others and carry on within our own life then we will be just fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 This thread is winning! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 Are we going to hear Brady squeal, Sam is the Mike? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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