TPS Posted February 23, 2014 Posted February 23, 2014 Nice piece by JW on the Pegula/Sabres development. Now we just need an NHL team... http://bigstory.ap.org/article/buffalo-rebranding-itself-hockey-mecca
PromoTheRobot Posted February 25, 2014 Posted February 25, 2014 (edited) We're pretty lucky that Terry Pegula decided to buy the Sabres. Buffalo lacked a patron; someone with a fortune that was willing to spend it on the city, much like Mr. Eastman did in Rochester. Back when they first built the arena at the foot of Main, it was with the ideas it would attract development. But like with so many dumb ideas in Buffalo they thought that development would happen by magic. Pegula is making it happen with his own money. Not just Harbor Center, but the Cobblestone entertainment district, the casino and Canalside. Buffalo will finally have a "destination." An attraction that will draw people. Someplace that might impress someone visiting. Now we can only hope Pegula's vision might include a domed football stadium and a certain NFL team. PTR Edited February 25, 2014 by PromoTheRobot
PastaJoe Posted February 25, 2014 Posted February 25, 2014 Unfortunately he didn't clean house from the start, which has put the team a couple of years behind in rebuilding. We're still in the 'suffering' phase.
mrags Posted February 25, 2014 Posted February 25, 2014 Were only a hockey town now because all the teenagers jumped on the bandwagon when the Sabres were on their run what feels like ages ago. Many have never seen the crazy of this town and insane love for the Bills since they've been born. When that happens, this town will erupt. As far as Pegula goes. Very happy he's done what he's done with the waterfront and the area so resounding the arena. He's making downtown a destination again.
Chef Jim Posted February 25, 2014 Posted February 25, 2014 We're pretty lucky that Terry Pegula decided to buy the Sabres. Buffalo lacked a patron; someone with a fortune that was willing to spend it on the city, much like Mr. Eastman did in Rochester. Back when they first built the arena at the foot of Main, it was with the ideas it would attract development. But like with so many dumb ideas in Buffalo they thought that development would happen by magic. Pegula is making it happen with his own money. Not just Harbor Center, but the Cobblestone entertainment district, the casino and Canalside. Buffalo will finally have a "destination." An attraction that will draw people. Someplace that might impress someone visiting. Now we can only hope Pegula's vision might include a domed football stadium and a certain NFL team. PTR It's a shame there was little new development when the new arena went in. It Buffalo that incompetent? When SF built Pac Bell (now AT&T) park for the Giants in SoMa it started an amazing transformation from a blighted haven for homeless to one of the most sought after parts of the city. Of course it didn't happen by magic but it almost seems that it did. That ballpark was built 10 years ago and the effects of is are still seen today as the revitalization has spread to Mission Bay which I don't recognize anymore and I've only been across the bay for less than two years. Here's to Buffalo having the same type of success.
shrader Posted February 25, 2014 Posted February 25, 2014 It's a shame there was little new development when the new arena went in. It Buffalo that incompetent? When SF built Pac Bell (now AT&T) park for the Giants in SoMa it started an amazing transformation from a blighted haven for homeless to one of the most sought after parts of the city. Of course it didn't happen by magic but it almost seems that it did. That ballpark was built 10 years ago and the effects of is are still seen today as the revitalization has spread to Mission Bay which I don't recognize anymore and I've only been across the bay for less than two years. Here's to Buffalo having the same type of success. I know next to nothing about San Francisco, but that area always looks amazing anytime I see that ballpark on tv. If they can do something even remotely close to Buffalo starting with this current construction, it will go a long way. Buffalo's a very different area, but if they can at least get something worth showing on TV it will be great. Maybe we can finally see the end of the days where the only clips they show during football broadcasts are shots of the Falls or of people making wings.
Chef Jim Posted February 25, 2014 Posted February 25, 2014 I know next to nothing about San Francisco, but that area always looks amazing anytime I see that ballpark on tv. If they can do something even remotely close to Buffalo starting with this current construction, it will go a long way. Buffalo's a very different area, but if they can at least get something worth showing on TV it will be great. Maybe we can finally see the end of the days where the only clips they show during football broadcasts are shots of the Falls or of people making wings. There certainly is a difference in cities. Of course SF already had a base to work with but I remember visiting years ago and that part of town was way out of bounds. We went there once to mail post cards seeing it was the first PO we found and holy cow was it scary in broad daylight. Now as you mentioned it's beautiful. Tons and tons of $$ being generated there in restaurants, shopping and some very expensive lofts/condos. One of the things that helped that area was when they torn down the Embarcadero Freeway after the Loma Prieta earthquake that blocked the rest of the city from the waterfront. Kind of like the Skyway in Buffalo. Developing the waterfront is crucial in Buffalo of course.
ExiledInIllinois Posted February 25, 2014 Posted February 25, 2014 (edited) Hate to be a naysayer... BFLO may be in for a world of hurt! If this winter doesn't start winding down, you won't want to be anywhere near Buffalo Harbor till June 1st. :-( :-( That is THREE full months away and by then the harshness of fall is just around the corner! Who wants to stand next to an open freezer with the mouth of The Lake ice boomed up. This winter is getting ugly... Already almost the last week of February & first week of March and temps won't crack above 20... Lows in the subzero numbers. What's the lastest they pulled The Boom out? May 15th or something?? Riverbend? Marina? How the eff is anybody gonna get out if the mouth of The Lake is jammed up? In Chicago, we'd normally be seeing the bass fisherman starting to head out in a week or so, we are still jammed in with 2 FEET of ice. I don't even know what that does to the salmon run? Pleasure craft can head into the Chicago Park District slips April 15... Earlier if they can and want to pay. With this lies the problem... Chicago will be fine, but even during a good year, BFLO is still 2 full months behind when it comes to the waterfront and the boating season... Then a month earlier to end! This is brutal, the weather pattern hopefully will shape up in two weeks. I never seen this much ice in my 23 years @ the southern tip of Lake Michigan and the lake is still only 40% frozen! It is solid everywhere else, Green Bay, Taverse Bay, The Mac, Southern tip. Great Lakes nav season should begin a week into March! We have had two small thaws and still 2 feet of snow is sitting on my lawn... Now it is cold and clear and only snow into next week, temps again, subzero... Not good folks! Edited February 25, 2014 by ExiledInIllinois
Gordio Posted February 25, 2014 Posted February 25, 2014 I know next to nothing about San Francisco, but that area always looks amazing anytime I see that ballpark on tv. If they can do something even remotely close to Buffalo starting with this current construction, it will go a long way. Buffalo's a very different area, but if they can at least get something worth showing on TV it will be great. Maybe we can finally see the end of the days where the only clips they show during football broadcasts are shots of the Falls or of people making wings. Agreed, I watch a ton of baseball in the summer usually have the TV on the patio when I am doing yard work & such + I have the MLB package. Whoever designed/built AT&T really had a vision & was way ahead of their time. The ball park looks terrific & imo there is not a nicer setting & cooler looking atmosphere in all of baseball then that ball park. One question for you Chef. That Cove year you see all the people sitting in the kayaks behind right field. I know the Bay is a popular hangout for Great White Sharks, if I was in a flimsy kayak I would kind of be scared of getting attacked. Obviously I never heard of anybody getting attacked there but still. Playing with fire if you ask me. haha.
ExiledInIllinois Posted February 25, 2014 Posted February 25, 2014 Agreed, I watch a ton of baseball in the summer usually have the TV on the patio when I am doing yard work & such + I have the MLB package. Whoever designed/built AT&T really had a vision & was way ahead of their time. The ball park looks terrific & imo there is not a nicer setting & cooler looking atmosphere in all of baseball then that ball park. One question for you Chef. That Cove year you see all the people sitting in the kayaks behind right field. I know the Bay is a popular hangout for Great White Sharks, if I was in a flimsy kayak I would kind of be scared of getting attacked. Obviously I never heard of anybody getting attacked there but still. Playing with fire if you ask me. haha. I think they only go where their prey is. Like sea lions... Oh wait! LoL. Honestly, I think the only time the sharks (GW's) attack humans is out of accident. ?? Say surfers wearing black wet suits, etc... Amazing how they must look like a sea lion to them. Kayaks are usually bright colors? I think there is a study out there about this.
Gordio Posted February 25, 2014 Posted February 25, 2014 Hate to be a naysayer... BFLO may be in for a world of hurt! If this winter doesn't start winding down, you won't want to be anywhere near Buffalo Harbor till June 1st. :-( :-( That is THREE full months away and by then the harshness of fall is just around the corner! Who wants to stand next to an open freezer with the mouth of The Lake ice boomed up. This winter is getting ugly... Already almost the last week of February & first week of March and temps won't crack above 20... Lows in the subzero numbers. What's the lastest they pulled The Boom out? May 15th or something?? Riverbend? Marina? How the eff is anybody gonna get out if the mouth of The Lake is jammed up? In Chicago, we'd normally be seeing the bass fisherman starting to head out in a week or so, we are still jammed in with 2 FEET of ice. I don't even know what that does to the salmon run? Pleasure craft can head into the Chicago Park District slips April 15... Earlier if they can and want to pay. With this lies the problem... Chicago will be fine, but even during a good year, BFLO is still 2 full months behind when it comes to the waterfront and the boating season... Then a month earlier to end! This is brutal, the weather pattern hopefully will shape up in two weeks. I never seen this much ice in my 23 years @ the southern tip of Lake Michigan and the lake is still only 40% frozen! It is solid everywhere else, Green Bay, Taverse Bay, The Mac, Southern tip. Great Lakes nav season should begin a week into March! We have had two small thaws and still 2 feet of snow is sitting on my lawn... Now it is cold and clear and only snow into next week, temps again, subzero... Not good folks! This winter has been brutal for sure but this is rare. Prior to this I have been golfing 3 out of the last 4 winters in March so save your BS about you don't want to be anywhere the city until June. The tournament is coming here in march, hopefully they will get some Frozen Fours here in the future(that was a big hit the last time they came here) & I think you may have something. The casino is right down the road & I don't know if you have had a chance to walk down the inner harbor lately but believe it or not it is coming together. They have had several big concerts here the last year or so with big turnouts. Hopefully this will be the anchor that pulls everything together.
ExiledInIllinois Posted February 25, 2014 Posted February 25, 2014 This winter has been brutal for sure but this is rare. Prior to this I have been golfing 3 out of the last 4 winters in March so save your BS about you don't want to be anywhere the city until June. The tournament is coming here in march, hopefully they will get some Frozen Fours here in the future(that was a big hit the last time they came here) & I think you may have something. The casino is right down the road & I don't know if you have had a chance to walk down the inner harbor lately but believe it or not it is coming together. They have had several big concerts here the last year or so with big turnouts. Hopefully this will be the anchor that pulls everything together. Sorry, I said: "Buffalo Harbor" I am just as much bummed by this winter as the next. "BFLO may be in for a world of hurt! If this winter doesn't start winding down, you won't want to be anywhere near Buffalo Harbor till June 1st. :-( :-( " And it is THIS winter only... That I am dismayed by too. I am specifically referring to BFLO's #1 asset, the water... And being only usable for a good 5 months @ best is a downer! Hard to properly hitch your horses to something like that unless on shore. The boating scene could be so much better! That is what I was mainly referring to. Many boaters bypass BFLO when going around the country... Attracting a more waterbourne economy would be better in getting outside tourism. Of couse... Get away from the open freezer and head a little inland and things are great! As you can tell, I am not a big fan of the Ice Boom... Even if studies show otherwise!
Gordio Posted February 25, 2014 Posted February 25, 2014 This winter has been brutal for sure but this is rare. Prior to this I have been golfing 3 out of the last 4 winters in March so save your BS about you don't want to be anywhere the city until June. The tournament is coming here in march, hopefully they will get some Frozen Fours here in the future(that was a big hit the last time they came here) & I think you may have something. The casino is right down the road & I don't know if you have had a chance to walk down the inner harbor lately but believe it or not it is coming together. They have had several big concerts here the last year or so with big turnouts. Hopefully this will be the anchor that pulls everything together. One more thing. The average high for Buff in Feb is 31-36, chicago 32 - 40, for march in Buff it is 37-48 chic is 41-53, for april in buff 49-61 & chic is 53-65 in may for buf it is 62-71 & chci 65-75, for sept in buf it 76-65 & chic is 80-69 oct 65-54 & chic is 69-57. So Chicago is about 4 degrees warmer then Buffalo on average so I doubt your boating season is a full 2 months more. I see people boating all the time here in late October, so your telling me Chicago people keep their boats in the water until New Years? + isn't Lake Erie quite a bit warmer then Lake Michigan? My guess is the boating season is longer here if anything. I think they only go where their prey is. Like sea lions... Oh wait! LoL. Honestly, I think the only time the sharks (GW's) attack humans is out of accident. ?? Say surfers wearing black wet suits, etc... Amazing how they must look like a sea lion to them. Kayaks are usually bright colors? I think there is a study out there about this. I don't buy the accident part. Great Whites usually do a hit & run attack in which they attack their prey then they let them bleed to death before coming back for them. My guess is they do this so they don't get scratched up to much when they are attacking a sea lion. The difference is with humans they will hit them but by the time they come back usually a life guard or whoever gets the person out of the water. There was a scientist on the discovery channel that actually believe when GWs attack humans they mean it. Of course a ton of scientists disagreed with this stating if this was the case their would be a ton more attacks. So who knows.
ExiledInIllinois Posted February 25, 2014 Posted February 25, 2014 One more thing. The average high for Buff in Feb is 31-36, chicago 32 - 40, for march in Buff it is 37-48 chic is 41-53, for april in buff 49-61 & chic is 53-65 in may for buf it is 62-71 & chci 65-75, for sept in buf it 76-65 & chic is 80-69 oct 65-54 & chic is 69-57. So Chicago is about 4 degrees warmer then Buffalo on average so I doubt your boating season is a full 2 months more. I see people boating all the time here in late October, so your telling me Chicago people keep their boats in the water until New Years? + isn't Lake Erie quite a bit warmer then Lake Michigan? My guess is the boating season is longer here if anything. Yep! Not this year of course. The boating season is 2-3 months shorter in BFLO. Again, people bypass BFLO specifically when doing The Great Loop... Lake Michigan doesn't feeze like Lake Erie freezes. If this was a normal season, we should be getting fisherman in boats NOW. Same with the fall... They usually go through November and December with the guys who trailer their boats. Duck hunters in the fall too. Not uncommon to get yachts heading through and pulling out on Christmas to New Years. Right now, we are opening up the canals and shipping lanes... Ice will leave quicker when there is commercial shipping to keep it broke up. Like ice going down a drain.
shrader Posted February 25, 2014 Posted February 25, 2014 Agreed, I watch a ton of baseball in the summer usually have the TV on the patio when I am doing yard work & such + I have the MLB package. Whoever designed/built AT&T really had a vision & was way ahead of their time. The ball park looks terrific & imo there is not a nicer setting & cooler looking atmosphere in all of baseball then that ball park. One question for you Chef. That Cove year you see all the people sitting in the kayaks behind right field. I know the Bay is a popular hangout for Great White Sharks, if I was in a flimsy kayak I would kind of be scared of getting attacked. Obviously I never heard of anybody getting attacked there but still. Playing with fire if you ask me. haha. Do they still get a lot of people out there in the kayaks during games now that the Bonds hysteria has died down? I haven't watched much baseball in years.
Gordio Posted February 25, 2014 Posted February 25, 2014 Do they still get a lot of people out there in the kayaks during games now that the Bonds hysteria has died down? I haven't watched much baseball in years. Yeah from the games I watched they still look like they are out there. Probably a great way to spend a Saturday afternoon. Not nowhere when Bonds was playing. I remember there were games when he was going for the homerun record that it didn't even look like people had room to move around it was so packed.
mrags Posted February 25, 2014 Posted February 25, 2014 Yeah from the games I watched they still look like they are out there. Probably a great way to spend a Saturday afternoon. Not nowhere when Bonds was playing. I remember there were games when he was going for the homerun record that it didn't even look like people had room to move around it was so packed. i was at (at the time) Pac Bell Park when Bonds tied and then passed William McCovey for the most home runs in Giants history. It was truly awesome to see that.
PromoTheRobot Posted February 25, 2014 Posted February 25, 2014 (edited) It's a shame there was little new development when the new arena went in. It Buffalo that incompetent? When SF built Pac Bell (now AT&T) park for the Giants in SoMa it started an amazing transformation from a blighted haven for homeless to one of the most sought after parts of the city. Of course it didn't happen by magic but it almost seems that it did. That ballpark was built 10 years ago and the effects of is are still seen today as the revitalization has spread to Mission Bay which I don't recognize anymore and I've only been across the bay for less than two years. Here's to Buffalo having the same type of success. I'm a little fuzzy on the details but I'm sure someone will help correct any errors. Back in the early 90's they had two places to build the new arena: near Chippewa St. which was starting to become the nightclub and theater district, or the foot of Main St., an area surrounded by elevated highways and mud, devoid of any hotel or restaurant where people might be able to go to on game days. So obviously they built it at the foot of Main! The logic was if you build an arena the development will follow magically because it...uh...always does! Yeah, look at all the development around Ralph Wilson Stadium! . No one was going to be the first investor to drop millions into an area that was a total dump. But little by little things got better: the Naval Park, the Commercial Pier, the concerts there in the summer. Another mini-night club district is forming on Mississippi and Illinois streets. The old Donovan Building, once an asbestos trap, is now a nice Marriott. But the Harborcenter will be the centerpiece. Now when Buffalo hosts events like the Frozen Four or NCAA basketball tournament, tourists will come out of the FNC and see nice, fun things instead of urban blight. And the idea of building the ice rinks and hockey academy with an attached hotel is sheer brilliance. There will be tournaments for youth travel teams every weekend. Hockey parents drop thousands on their kids paying for these excursions. Talk about a built-in market. PTR Edited February 25, 2014 by PromoTheRobot
Chef Jim Posted February 25, 2014 Posted February 25, 2014 Agreed, I watch a ton of baseball in the summer usually have the TV on the patio when I am doing yard work & such + I have the MLB package. Whoever designed/built AT&T really had a vision & was way ahead of their time. The ball park looks terrific & imo there is not a nicer setting & cooler looking atmosphere in all of baseball then that ball park. One question for you Chef. That Cove year you see all the people sitting in the kayaks behind right field. I know the Bay is a popular hangout for Great White Sharks, if I was in a flimsy kayak I would kind of be scared of getting attacked. Obviously I never heard of anybody getting attacked there but still. Playing with fire if you ask me. haha. I'm thinking the sharks in the bay is a bit of a myth. Sure they're there but you don't hear a lot of them attacking people. And that McCovey cove is more of a marina so not much an issue. One thing about summber baseball in SF it can be !@#$ing cold. We went to a game in August and froze! Hot chocolate sales were outpacing beer. So glad we move across the bay were we can sit in shorts and watch the fog eshroud the city.
ExiledInIllinois Posted February 25, 2014 Posted February 25, 2014 I'm a little fuzzy on the details but I'm sure someone will help correct any errors. Back in the early 90's they had two places to build the new arena: near Chippewa St. which was starting to become the nightclub and theater district, or the foot of Main St., an area surrounded by elevated highways and mud, devoid of any hotel or restaurant where people might be able to go to on game days. So obviously they built it at the foot of Main! The logic was if you build an arena the development will follow magically because it...uh...always does! Yeah, look at all the development around Ralph Wilson Stadium! . No one was going to be the first investor to drop millions into an area that was a total dump. But little by little things got better: the Naval Park, the Commercial Pier, the concerts there in the summer. Another mini-night club district is forming on Mississippi and Illinois streets. The old Donovan Building, once an asbestos trap, is now a nice Marriott. But the Harborcenter will be the centerpiece. Now when Buffalo hosts events like the Frozen Four or NCAA basketball tournament, tourists will come out of the FNC and see nice, fun things instead of urban blight. And the idea of building the ice rinks and hockey academy with an attached hotel is sheer brilliance. There will be tournaments for youth travel teams every weekend. Hockey parents drop thousands on their kids paying for these excursions. Talk about a built-in market. PTR Thanks PTR (& Gordio too)! Nice take on it. Sorry for sounding negative and being a Debbie Downer on the weather. I am really pulling for Buffalo to make it work! It would be nice to see a Super Bowl in BFLO now that NYC got. It constantly pisses me off that other cities scramble, claw, and fight for this and places like Buffalo have to somehow do it all themselves without any outside help. I mean, the Super Bowl commitee is considering pulling the plug on AZ next year and they all freaking out about losing the Super Bowl. Oh, poor babies! Nice when something gives you a jump start to economic vitality, ain't it? Again... I am really pulling for BFLO, sorry if I get negative and appear that the deck is stacked against it!
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