BADOLBILZ Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 It is so weird that we can read the same piece and come away with 2 completely different takes. To me this says that those people are right. Instead of just going with it as we have seen Jauron and Gailey do, they are directly questioning and challenging it. You even say as much in your first paragraph. I agree completely that these guys are the problem. Littman and Overdorf have been around for a looooonnng time and had success 20+ years ago in a non salary cap era. The only thing they have been successful at lately is lining Ralph's pockets. Marrone and Whaley are actually interested in winning and that does not coincide with the make as much money as possible ideology that has been par for the course for quite some time here. If there is going to be real change it will start now. Obviously, it hasn't happened yet. It didn't happen when Russ replaced the scapegoats last year. Marrone came in talking about what he was going to do and the bosses didn't think it applied to them. They are the epitome of unaccountable. If they were held accountable they would have been fired long ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Who is to say this dynamic was not part of Pettine's desire to leave for Cleveland, or that he hasn't leaked some of this stuff himself. He left quite the oil slick on his way out of New York. These stories have emerged during the combine. I seriously doubt that and it would reflect terrible on MP. The Bills helped him get a head coaching job. Why would there be any bitterness on his part? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Who is to say this dynamic was not part of Pettine's desire to leave for Cleveland, or that he hasn't leaked some of this stuff himself. He left quite the oil slick on his way out of New York. These stories have emerged during the combine. I don't think this has anything to do with that, seeing as when he went to Cleveland they had this situation on steroids with Banner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Again, what's the last story a Buffalo News reporter has broken? If his sources are as you say, why hasn't he broken any stories? I used to like Graham but he has become thin skinned and seems to relish stirring up things. And if there really is a leak, if I'm the Gm (hopefully in a few year ), someone is losing their job. it's an awfully big whopper if TG's just trolling. The kind that would cost a guy his career (as has been said in this thread already). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillsForever Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 (edited) I look at this front office mutiny as a good thing. We have people currently in the organization that are coming to realization what informed fans knew a decade ago. Edited February 24, 2014 by BuffaloBillsForever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seq004 Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Mr. Pantiesinabunch Graham has a story this morning that Bills coaches would like to move on from Bud Carpenter and his "old school" training staff because their methodologies are "behind the times". I say the proof is in the pudding and get on with it. However the story suggests the front office is not behind the potential move. Who wins out? Bud has been great, but thank God D&D are finally trying to change the culture at OBD! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Who is to say this dynamic was not part of Pettine's desire to leave for Cleveland, or that he hasn't leaked some of this stuff himself. He left quite the oil slick on his way out of New York. These stories have emerged during the combine. would be shocked by that one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Question. Simply asked. Is whoever the source is "accountable?" Is there any reason to believe he is on Marrone's inner circle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Question. Simply asked. Is whoever the source is "accountable?" Is there any reason to believe he is on Marrone's inner circle? yes x 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawgg Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Again, what's the last story a Buffalo News reporter has broken? If his sources are as you say, why hasn't he broken any stories? I used to like Graham but he has become thin skinned and seems to relish stirring up things. And if there really is a leak, if I'm the Gm (hopefully in a few year ), someone is losing their job. No doubt -- local news hasn't broken many stories of late, in large part because Berchtold runs a tight ship and only rewards national reporters in order to curry favor. That said, it has been pretty obvious to me that Tim Graham has some sources within the organization. Nothing he has reported has been ground-breaking, but he has been able to provide a little bit more "color" than his counterparts of late. The second factor that I think you are overlooking: this is a different coaching staff. These are younger coaches who come from winning organizations and are used to having their way. Same can't be said about Gaileys and Jaurons of the world. As a result of this dynamic, some coaches are more willing to talk than previous regimes were in the past. The combination of the above two factors is what led to this report, which I think is 100% accurate. It's very weird that Jim Overdorf and Russ Brandon are the ones talking to and negotiating with agents at the scouting combine when Whaley has the title of GM. Clearly Overdorf has defacto GM powers and it has to frustrate both the coach and the GM, because they are ultimately responsible if the team fails to produce on the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mousetrap08 Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Of course the Betamax aren't worth much since they took the tvs out. I had one of those beta machines back when my son was 1 year old and he will be 30 this summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 yes x 2 so why isn't the source Marrone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 It's very weird that Jim Overdorf and Russ Brandon are the ones talking to and negotiating with agents at the scouting combine when Whaley has the title of GM. Clearly Overdorf has defacto GM powers and it has to frustrate both the coach and the GM, because they are ultimately responsible if the team fails to produce on the field. This, 100%, is the issue. It's right there on display for everyone to see, including us fans, although there are still a dogged few who would prefer to keep their heads in the sand, perhaps because they can't bear the thought that things haven't changed. And the fact that someone voiced his gripes to TG indicates that the free agency season isn't off to a strong start, and folks are already lining up the CYAs... Like I said, it's depressing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Question. Simply asked. Is whoever the source is "accountable?" Is there any reason to believe he is on Marrone's inner circle? I'll answer your questions with another. Who stands to gain the most if there is a shakeup at OBD? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 so why isn't the source Marrone? honestly, in my mind, i haven't ruled out that possibility Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 This has to burn Russ like nothing else, no? He is a PR guy by nature. If it doesn't burn him, it scares him. Russ is a notorious liar, it's been illustrated numerous times and that is basically how the organization handles criticism without changing their ways. They create a front. Ralph may be in a fog now for all we know, but he set the course that this franchise is on. If the team is winning big, he will invest in it. If not, he will take from it. The problem is that in that kind of situation.....once you start losing...... you need an extraordinary personnel man as a GM and/or a great coaching staff to defeat the odds that are stacked against them. Polian did it, but times were different then. There were A LOT of organizations that weren't committed to winning back then. There are far less now. Ralphs' way doesn't work. At some point, when you are down you have to go all-in and stay all-in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealityCheck Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 It's quite curious that the bean counters are actively limiting their ability to keep their most expensive and important commodity healthy. They chose to play it cheap and then go really cheap on the "human" maintenance. An NFL team OWES it to their players to give them top-notch trainers and medical staff. Byrd intimated in his interviews upon returning from his hold out that the trainers' advice from the year before lead to the delays in his foot recovery citing "bad advice". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 (edited) I'll answer your questions with another. Who stands to gain the most if there is a shakeup at OBD? the most. MartineThe least Russ I just don't think a tree that big can be shook. It either stands or it gets blown down. You can't take an axe to it because you'll never make a dent in jt Edited February 24, 2014 by jboyst62 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 If it doesn't burn him, it scares him. Russ is a notorious liar, it's been illustrated numerous times and that is basically how the organization handles criticism without changing their ways. They create a front. Ralph may be in a fog now for all we know, but he set the course that this franchise is on. If the team is winning big, he will invest in it. If not, he will take from it. The problem is that in that kind of situation.....once you start losing...... you need an extraordinary personnel man as a GM and/or a great coaching staff to defeat the odds that are stacked against them. Polian did it, but times were different then. There were A LOT of organizations that weren't committed to winning back then. There are far less now. Ralphs' way doesn't work. At some point, when you are down you have to go all-in and stay all-in. can you please give three examples of Russ's notorious lies? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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