YoloinOhio Posted February 26, 2014 Posted February 26, 2014 (edited) I am glad somebody else said this. Over the years here, I see posters constantly bashing the "lightweight WNY media", but then, when there is some story like this, that isn't so flattering about our team, we attack the messenger... I am not as down on the Bills current FO as some here appear to be, but I have little doubt that friction exists there. I would be shocked if there isn't friction that exists, like what Graham is reporting, with every pro sports team. While I have little insight into the current Bills FO, I do have some into others in the NFL and this is completely fair. Winning organizations and losing organizations both have issues when you peel back the curtain. I have no issue with Graham reporting on what he learned from his sources, but I don't think it is the reason why the Bills win or lose. Is it a factor in Marrone and Whaley trying to change the culture? IMO, very likely - but came to a head with the Byrd contract. I think Whaley feels the deal can be done and Overdorf is putting a cap on the amount they can spend which is going to lead to a tag and publically that falls right on Whaley, That doesn't mean they haven't spent on FAs and coaches, as they clearly have. This signing would send a huge message that Marrone and Whaley want to send... but sounds like they are meeting resistance and they are feeling stymied. While this may seem like doom, it happens in all teams that contracts want to be done by the GM or the coach and they don't have the final say. it just so happens that many teams don't need to "send a message" with a FA signing... and therefore it doesn't get blown up in the media over frustration. It is my belief and in line with my earlier comments that it is not a question of whether friction exists, but how it is managed. I don't know what Russ ultimately can accomplish, but I have to believe he is concerned enough to at least make a run at the issue.As others have mentioned, the previous coaches may not have challenged it. Now it is being challenged, it is in Russ's court to make enough changes (they don't need to be huge, sweeping changes) to help the new guys feel they can, indeed, win. Edited February 26, 2014 by YoloinOhio
Coach Tuesday Posted February 26, 2014 Posted February 26, 2014 While I have little insight into the current Bills FO, I do have some into others in the NFL and this is completely fair. Winning organizations and losing organizations both have issues when you peel back the curtain. I have no issue with Graham reporting on what he learned from his sources, but I don't think it is the reason why the Bills win or lose. Is it a factor in Marrone and Whaley trying to change the culture? IMO, very likely - but came to a head with the Byrd contract. I think Whaley feels the deal can be done and Overdorf is putting a cap on the amount they can spend which is going to lead to a tag and publically that falls right on Whaley, That doesn't mean they haven't spent on FAs and coaches, as they clearly have. This signing would send a huge message that Marrone and Whaley want to send... but sounds like they are meeting resistance and they are feeling stymied. While this may seem like doom, it happens in all teams that contracts want to be done by the GM or the coach and they don't have the final say. itr just so happens that many teams don't need to "send a message" with a FA signing... and therefore it doesn't get blown up in the media over frustration. It is my belief and in line with my earlier comments that it is not a question of whether friction exists, but how it is managed. I don;t know what Russ ultimately can accomplish, but I have to believe he is concerned enough to at least make a run at the issue. Very good post.
bbb Posted February 26, 2014 Posted February 26, 2014 Does anybody have the organizational chart for the Bills?
YoloinOhio Posted February 26, 2014 Posted February 26, 2014 This lists the position titles but not duties... each NFL FO operates slightly differently so it is hard to determine where there may be dotted lines... http://www.buffalobills.com/about-us/front-office.html Does anybody have the organizational chart for the Bills?
bbb Posted February 26, 2014 Posted February 26, 2014 Yeah, we need the dotted lines. I don't know if they know where they are. To be fair the "attacking" isn't that he wrote this story- it's that he's wrote so much nonsense in the past that it makes a good story like this could be, somewhat hazier. If he was always the height of professionalism, 7 days a week, 365 days a year, this story would come with a lot more weight but because he isn't professional so often.... Well... It comes across as a legit story, but from a damaged writer. This.
GA BILLS FAN Posted February 26, 2014 Posted February 26, 2014 Does anybody have the organizational chart for the Bills? That's what I asked for a few pages back -- an understanding of roles and responsibilities and most importantly decision rights for members of the FO ---
Buftex Posted February 26, 2014 Posted February 26, 2014 (edited) This lists the position titles but not duties... each NFL FO operates slightly differently so it is hard to determine where there may be dotted lines... http://www.buffalobi...ont-office.html I "know" somebody on that list, or moreover, a sibling of somebody on that list. This person would be considered one of the "greybeards" no doubt...been there since before the Super Bowl days.... I will say, I used to get some pretty juicy tidbits of insider info...more just stuff about personalities and relationships between folks there...not so for the last 2 years or so... Edited February 26, 2014 by Buftex
Rubes Posted February 26, 2014 Posted February 26, 2014 I "know" somebody on that list, or moreover, a sibling of somebody on that list. This person would be considered one of the "greybeards" no doubt...been there since before the Super Bowl days.... I will say, I used to get some pretty juicy tidbits of insider info...more just stuff about personalities and relationships between folks there...not so for the last 2 years or so... Is that implying something?
Buftex Posted February 26, 2014 Posted February 26, 2014 Is that implying something? Sort of... though I am not sure exactly what.
NoSaint Posted February 26, 2014 Posted February 26, 2014 Sort of... though I am not sure exactly what. 2 years is an odd demarcation as it would be the final year with gailey/nix. If the estimate is accurate, I'm not sure what the corresponding change organizationally would be
Sisyphean Bills Posted February 26, 2014 Posted February 26, 2014 and i'm not completely sold on the story being false...but he's the only one reporting it... This is true and not true. Graham is the only one reporting the current struggles between the old guard and the current Whaley/Marrone football side of the house. But it is wrong to imply this is the very first time this sort of news has come out. Do you remember Buddy's explanation of the Lee Evans trade? In a word, weirdness. The guy with the title of GM mentioning that he wasn't really part of the trade, didn't know the details, and there were things he couldn't discuss. Mike Mularkey quit, stating that the team wasn't structured in a way for him to succeed. The last guy to get Ralph's keys to the organization, Tom Donahoe, reportedly went on at great length about the restrictions and limitations that were imposed that made his job impossible. It goes on, but this is not the first whiff of smoke here.
Beerball Posted February 26, 2014 Posted February 26, 2014 Does anybody have the organizational chart for the Bills?
Fan in San Diego Posted February 26, 2014 Posted February 26, 2014 This is true and not true. Graham is the only one reporting the current struggles between the old guard and the current Whaley/Marrone football side of the house. But it is wrong to imply this is the very first time this sort of news has come out. Do you remember Buddy's explanation of the Lee Evans trade? In a word, weirdness. The guy with the title of GM mentioning that he wasn't really part of the trade, didn't know the details, and there were things he couldn't discuss. Mike Mularkey quit, stating that the team wasn't structured in a way for him to succeed. The last guy to get Ralph's keys to the organization, Tom Donahoe, reportedly went on at great length about the restrictions and limitations that were imposed that made his job impossible. It goes on, but this is not the first whiff of smoke here. We need a new owner to clean out the FO deadwood.
uncle flap Posted February 26, 2014 Posted February 26, 2014 (edited) and i'm not completely sold on the story being false...but he's the only one reporting it... Whats weird is that it hasnt been mentioned on wgr - you know, the official station of the Bills. Someone asked Jeremy White via twitter why it wasn't and his reply was that he didn't think it was that interesting to fans. Really? Because there's a huge thread here, nearly 40 pages on the bills message board, and people discussing it all over twitter. White also said its basically a "he said, she said" scenario. Uh, even if it was 100% corroborated, the essence of the story is still "he said, she said." That is, true or not, it boils down to Whaley/Marrone saying, "I can't do my job" with Littman/Overdorf saying, "Yes, you can." I know Murph is a paid shill going on about Byrd not being a difference maker, but that's during the Bills paid program. I would expect Joe B and the rest to be a little more objective. Just today or yesterday Joe B was talking about how they can't afford Byrd and Aaron Williams. Sure they can. The cap situation looks great for the foreseeable future, and if things change, well, then cross that bridge when they come to it. I understand philosophically not wanting to tie up say $15 million/yr on two safeties, but if you can afford to do so - as the Bills can, why not? I mean the morning show has them going on and on about all sorts of hypotheticals and pie in the sky trade proposals but they don't even mention a sourced story about their arguably #1 draw? Something's fishy. Edited February 26, 2014 by uncle flap
KOKBILLS Posted February 26, 2014 Posted February 26, 2014 (edited) Whats weird is that it hasnt been mentioned on wgr - you know, the official station of the Bills. Someone asked Jeremy White via twitter why it wasn't and his reply was that he didn't think it was that interesting to fans. Really? Because there's a huge thread here, nearly 40 pages on the bills message board, and people discussing it all over twitter. White also said its basically a "he said, she said" scenario. Uh, even if it was 100% corroborated, the essence of the story is still "he said, she said." That is, true or not, it boils down to Whaley/Marrone saying, "I can't do my job" with Littman/Overdorf saying, "Yes, you can." Wow...I can't believe Jeremy said that because he's a pretty major follower of this team...I can't see how any Bills fan would not be at least a little interested in this story if it's all true...I think the die-hard fans, like the one's that listen to sports talk radio, would be ultra-interested...I know I'm a bit more fanatical than most Bills fans...To me this is an absolutely HUGE story...Again if in fact it is true...I think it strikes at the heart of what many Bills fans fear most about this organization...That it's permanently mired in the corporate mediocrity created by it's owner years ago...And that it's that mediocrity keeping the Bills from fielding a winning team, and building a culture of excellence...But maybe that's just me... Edited February 26, 2014 by KOKBILLS
uncle flap Posted February 26, 2014 Posted February 26, 2014 Wow...I can't believe Jeremy said that because he's a pretty major follower of this team...I can't see how any Bills fan would not be at least a little interested in this story if it's all true...I think the die-hard fans, like the one's that listen to sports talk radio, would be ultra-interested...I know I'm a bit more fanatical than most Bills fans...To me this is an absolutely HUGE story...Again if in fact it is true...I think it strikes at the heart of what many Bills fans fear most about this organization...That it's permanently mired in the corporate mediocrity created by it's owner years ago...And that it's that mediocrity keeping the Bills from fielding a winning team, and building a culture of excellence...But maybe that's just me... You can read the exchange here:
KOKBILLS Posted February 26, 2014 Posted February 26, 2014 You can read the exchange here: http://twitter.com/J...271796215693313 Interesting... Still think they should at least touch on it and say that sources told them it was bunk...
The Big Cat Posted February 26, 2014 Posted February 26, 2014 Whats weird is that it hasnt been mentioned on wgr - you know, the official station of the Bills. Someone asked Jeremy White via twitter why it wasn't and his reply was that he didn't think it was that interesting to fans. Really? Because there's a huge thread here, nearly 40 pages on the bills message board, and people discussing it all over twitter. White also said its basically a "he said, she said" scenario. Uh, even if it was 100% corroborated, the essence of the story is still "he said, she said." That is, true or not, it boils down to Whaley/Marrone saying, "I can't do my job" with Littman/Overdorf saying, "Yes, you can." I know Murph is a paid shill going on about Byrd not being a difference maker, but that's during the Bills paid program. I would expect Joe B and the rest to be a little more objective. Just today or yesterday Joe B was talking about how they can't afford Byrd and Aaron Williams. Sure they can. The cap situation looks great for the foreseeable future, and if things change, well, then cross that bridge when they come to it. I understand philosophically not wanting to tie up say $15 million/yr on two safeties, but if you can afford to do so - as the Bills can, why not? I mean the morning show has them going on and on about all sorts of hypotheticals and pie in the sky trade proposals but they don't even mention a sourced story about their arguably #1 draw? Something's fishy. Kinda corroborates my initial inclination (only because it was a TG story): his report is shades of trumped-up truths, skillfully elusive of any outright, demonstrative statement that would pin TG to an otherwise lie. Perhaps the implicit mountain is but mole hill, after all. Or...may be GR is avoiding it because TG tripped up a forthcoming announcement. IMO, either of these scenarios are just as plausible as Littman/Overdorff being the cuffs that bind Russ to the pipe.
bbb Posted February 26, 2014 Posted February 26, 2014 LOL - this is actually the kind of answer I was looking for when asking the question.
BillsVet Posted February 26, 2014 Posted February 26, 2014 Kinda corroborates my initial inclination (only because it was a TG story): his report is shades of trumped-up truths, skillfully elusive of any outright, demonstrative statement that would pin TG to an otherwise lie. Perhaps the implicit mountain is but mole hill, after all. Or...may be GR is avoiding it because TG tripped up a forthcoming announcement. IMO, either of these scenarios are just as plausible as Littman/Overdorff being the cuffs that bind Russ to the pipe. I find it ironic that those who support all things Bills and never criticize the organization still prefer to support senior management and not the coaching staff/personnel department in this issue. But, I guess the best away to avoid a report which strikes at the heart of what some believe is to merely disregard it as "trumped-up truths" from a writer we don't like. I would think the football people who get paid to, you know, win football games would be the side selected by those fans who believe in all things Bills.
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