GA BILLS FAN Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 yes: http://bills.buffalo...s-organization/ THANKS ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 And furthermore, your ticket to the game is just a license for the seat designated and can be revoked at any time at the discretion of the team. GO BILLS!!! I understand. It's admittedly a stretch. But in this case (and unlike the Jets' situation) you have very specific statements of present facts and intentions, which appear on their face to be demonstrably false. That is the underpinning of a fraud claim. General statements like "we will do what it takes to win" are not going to get it done. Specific statements like "Everyone reports to me" and "Doug Whaley has final say over all matters affecting free agency" (if he were to say that) might be more to hang a lawsuit on, especially if they're said while known to be untrue, and fans rely on them in choosing to purchase season seats... Again, it's a stretch. It would be more strategic than anything else - I wouldn't expect the lawsuit to prevail, but it would certainly be embarassing for the organization to have to deal with it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Brandon on Jan 2, 2013: "Buddy Nix will be the general manager for a long, long time" yet we've already hashed out that the SID spoonfeeds responses to team personnel and has flubbed them on more than one occasion. interesting, though, that in the report you cite, Buddy said the same thing. obviously the crooks got their story straight...and we've already established whose job that is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
extrahammer Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 (edited) I like to imagine the Front Office scene something like this: Edited February 24, 2014 by thisiskeith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 The biggest issue in all of this (if TG's reporting is true) is that someone went to TG to try get their way rather than working in house. Because all other options had been exhausted and, as with any franchise, the HC and then the GM are the first to go when the team doesn't win. And given that Marrone and Whaley have seen how real NFL franchises work, they know when they're not getting the resources to have a reasonable shot at winning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Because all other options had been exhausted and, as with any franchise, the HC and then the GM are the first to go when the team doesn't win. And given that Marrone and Whaley have seen how real NFL franchises work, they know when they're not getting the resources to have a reasonable shot at winning. My view is that you do not going crying to TG if you do not happen to get your way. Again, Bud Carpenter is NOT the reason why the Bills have not made the playoffs. By going to the press (if any of this is true), they look like cry babies who cannot fight their own battles. I would have preferred that they resolve whatever issues in house. If Marrone or whoever is not happy and cannot live with the result, they have the option of quitting. Again, just my two cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 There's is a lot of Brandon hate being spread throughout this thread and I'm damn curious as to why. I get the impression that almost all of the rub against him began as message board **** talking, and those that wanted to believe it glommed on to it and have been circulating it ever since. He's a marketing/PR guy first and foremost: Yeah, and a former collegiate athlete, he knows what makes teams tick. It's not just applyign the same principles you would to sell laundry detergent. He's a liar: how so? I get the impression fans just want to hate the guy because Ralph misguidedly promoted him to "GM" what? Eight years ago? We've since moved on. But the biases here are palpable and I don't understand them. If I'm truly missing something, by all means, enlighten. I tend to agree...However guardedly that may be... To me...Brandon seems like a real bright guy who is hard working and sincere...I do pick up a little too much "I wanna be one of the jocks and I'll prove it by dropping names galore" vibe from him...But that's completely harmless, and has nothing to do with how well he can do his job, or how capable he is of doing so... I think the disdain for Russ basically goes back to his stint as GM...Many Bills fans see him as an NFL outsider who did not pay his football dues (scouting, coaching, whatever)...I don't downgrade him due to those things whatsoever because he's intelligent, and there's no reason an intelligent person cannot learn and excel... But I will say this...Brandon has been crystal clear the he will empower the folks he's put in charge and they will have everything they need to succeed...He's talked about changing the culture of losing on many occasions, and he knows damned well that means the entire franchise from top to bottom...So if these reports are true he's painted himself into one heck of a corner now...And if he truly has the power he says he has to run this organization we should expect some big changes in the front office hierarchy very soon...Otherwise he's going to come across as a snake-oil salesman to a lot of Bills fans who are already uncomfortable with his rise to the top...If these "lifers" remain in power just about any Bills fan who has followed this team over these many years will simply assume he's still just Ralph's mouthpiece...And nothing more... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevewin Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 My guess is at least one of the primary sources is in the scouting dept - 'Scouts and Coaches' is mentioned twice in the article, and they are at the scouting combine after all.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 I tend to agree...However guardedly that may be... To me...Brandon seems like a real bright guy who is hard working and sincere...I do pick up a little too much "I wanna be one of the jocks and I'll prove it by dropping names galore" vibe from him...But that's completely harmless, and has nothing to do with how well he can do his job, or how capable he is of doing so... I think the disdain for Russ basically goes back to his stint as GM...Many Bills fans see him as an NFL outsider who did not pay his football dues (scouting, coaching, whatever)...I don't downgrade him due to those things whatsoever because he's intelligent, and there's no reason an intelligent person cannot learn and excel... But I will say this...Brandon has been crystal clear the he will empower the folks he's put in charge and they will have everything they need to succeed...He's talked about changing the culture of losing on many occasions, and he knows damned well that means the entire franchise from top to bottom...So if these reports are true he's painted himself into one heck of a corner now...And if he truly has the power he says he has to run this organization we should expect some big changes in the front office hierarchy very soon...Otherwise he's going to come across as a snake-oil salesman to a lot of Bills fans who are already uncomfortable with his rise to the top...If these "lifers" remain in power just about any Bills fan who has followed this team over these many years will simply assume he's still just Ralph's mouthpiece...And nothing more... Well said.. My guess is at least one of the primary sources is in the scouting dept - 'Scouts and Coaches' is mentioned twice in the article, and they are at the scouting combine after all.. Which stands to reason it was not Marrone and Whaley themselves, but guys who work for them, and likely quite accurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Because all other options had been exhausted and, as with any franchise, the HC and then the GM are the first to go when the team doesn't win. And given that Marrone and Whaley have seen how real NFL franchises work, they know when they're not getting the resources to have a reasonable shot at winning. Whaley's past is interesting considering he came from a team that always used cash to cap accounting and never had any problems saying good-bye to good, home-grown talent if they thought the price was too high for the position. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 My view is that you do not going crying to TG if you do not happen to get your way. Again, Bud Carpenter is NOT the reason why the Bills have not made the playoffs. By going to the press (if any of this is true), they look like cry babies who cannot fight their own battles. I would have preferred that they resolve whatever issues in house. If Marrone or whoever is not happy and cannot live with the result, they have the option of quitting. Again, just my two cents. Well...It's not just Carpenter they're after...And I get the feeling that they have talked about the big things (Littmann, Overdorf, Berchtold) and got met with less-than-favorable answers...That's frustrating enough when you are in charge and ultimately responsible for the on-the-field results...Then when they wanted to change out something that was much less significant like the training staff, and were met with the same push-back, they decided enough was enough...That's just my guess... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billshank Redemption Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 out with the old and in with the new. 3 years they should have full and absolute control of this team. If it doesn't work out at least we can't say we didn't try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanC883 Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 time for Littmann, Overdorf, and Berchtold to go. Give them some sort of severance package and get some people in here who know what it takes to win. This is like the Pirates: Bob Nutting is a cheapskate and snake oil salesman, but GM Huntington unfairly takes all the blame from the fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
section122 Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 My view is that you do not going crying to TG if you do not happen to get your way. Again, Bud Carpenter is NOT the reason why the Bills have not made the playoffs. By going to the press (if any of this is true), they look like cry babies who cannot fight their own battles. I would have preferred that they resolve whatever issues in house. If Marrone or whoever is not happy and cannot live with the result, they have the option of quitting. Again, just my two cents. While of course he isn't the only reason I can think of a multiple year stretch where the BIlls were placing 10+ guys on IR. This speaks directly to the failures of a training staff. Marrone and Whaley to a certain extent have been put in control. They also are the ones who will receive the blame if things don't get better. Their options should be more than deal with it or quit. More than likely that kind of ideology from management leads to the loss of a lot of good/talented people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GA BILLS FAN Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Well said.. Which stands to reason it was not Marrone and Whaley themselves, but guys who work for them, and likely quite accurate. I am the farthest thing from a Brandon fan and have posted many times my reasons why. I will say this, this is an opportunity for Brandon to shut me and others up. He can put his actions where his mouth has been and usher in a new way of doing things at OBD and create a culture of winning. Fire Littman and Overdorf (or strip them of their football decisions and let them be what they should be, execution of the strategy not creation). Give Marrone the power to hire new training staff if he wants it. I doubt he does either of these, because, as I said at outset, I don't have much faith in the man. As for his defenders, I'll ask again, what 3 three things has he done in his 10+ years with the Bills to improve the results on the field ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 I tend to agree...However guardedly that may be... To me...Brandon seems like a real bright guy who is hard working and sincere...I do pick up a little too much "I wanna be one of the jocks and I'll prove it by dropping names galore" vibe from him...But that's completely harmless, and has nothing to do with how well he can do his job, or how capable he is of doing so... I think the disdain for Russ basically goes back to his stint as GM...Many Bills fans see him as an NFL outsider who did not pay his football dues (scouting, coaching, whatever)...I don't downgrade him due to those things whatsoever because he's intelligent, and there's no reason an intelligent person cannot learn and excel... But I will say this...Brandon has been crystal clear the he will empower the folks he's put in charge and they will have everything they need to succeed...He's talked about changing the culture of losing on many occasions, and he knows damned well that means the entire franchise from top to bottom...So if these reports are true he's painted himself into one heck of a corner now...And if he truly has the power he says he has to run this organization we should expect some big changes in the front office hierarchy very soon...Otherwise he's going to come across as a snake-oil salesman to a lot of Bills fans who are already uncomfortable with his rise to the top...If these "lifers" remain in power just about any Bills fan who has followed this team over these many years will simply assume he's still just Ralph's mouthpiece...And nothing more... Precisely how I feel. For the last decade or so, the Littman/Overdorf message board whispers have been precisely that. Now it's right the !@#$ out there, in everyone's faces, for better or for worse. The Bills had no obligation to address the rumors before, they're compelled to now. Doesn't mean they will, of course. I honestly believe the only thing that WILL lead to some sort of meaningful action, is the media's treatment of this. The FO isn't stupid. When it comes to damage control, if you survive the first 24 hours, you're pretty much in the clear. If the media (TG, the D&C, et al) pick this up and continue to pursue it, then Russ has a bona fide quagmire on his hands. I am the farthest thing from a Brandon fan and have posted many times my reasons why. I will say this, this is an opportunity for Brandon to shut me and others up. He can put his actions where his mouth has been and usher in a new way of doing things at OBD and create a culture of winning. Fire Littman and Overdorf (or strip them of their football decisions and let them be what they should be, execution of the strategy not creation). Give Marrone the power to hire new training staff if he wants it. I doubt he does either of these, because, as I said at outset, I don't have much faith in the man. As for his defenders, I'll ask again, what 3 three things has he done in his 10+ years with the Bills to improve the results on the field ?? I gave you more than 3 success stories from the past decade already. http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/topic/166013-bills-coaches-want-to-move-on-from-training-staff-fo-dysfunction/page__st__160#entry3064908 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-Daddy Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Ralph has Littman and Overdorf in charge to ensure maximum net income. Brandon can't change that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 (edited) Ralph has Littman and Overdorf in charge to ensure maximum net income. Brandon can't change that. But that's the exact problem for Russ now...He said he could change anything he wanted to and the buck stopped with him...So if we are to believe Russ, and I am inclined to do so at this time, he can change anything he wants to...He may have to push Ralph more than he's comfortable with...But that's part of the job... Edited February 24, 2014 by KOKBILLS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 My view is that you do not going crying to TG if you do not happen to get your way. Again, Bud Carpenter is NOT the reason why the Bills have not made the playoffs. By going to the press (if any of this is true), they look like cry babies who cannot fight their own battles. I would have preferred that they resolve whatever issues in house. If Marrone or whoever is not happy and cannot live with the result, they have the option of quitting. They've tried conventional means and it didn't work. And who cares? The truth has come to light and it paints the top of the franchise as interested in profiting at the cost of on-field results. The OBD oligarchy is making decisions that are, in the opinion of veteran coaches, making it impossible to compete. And that's what I care about. The coaching staff knows what they're doing and it being unprecedented, indicates the desperation of the situation. Whaley's past is interesting considering he came from a team that always used cash to cap accounting and never had any problems saying good-bye to good, home-grown talent if they thought the price was too high for the position. Let's not conflate the argument. Pittsburgh has, over the past 10 years, drafted exceptionally and re-signed certain premium players while allowing others to hit UFA. Two SB wins indicate they're adept at managing personnel. Just off the top of my head they've re-signed guys like Roethlisberger, Harrison, Woodley, Timmons, Polamalu to large contracts, i.e. 30M or more deals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GA BILLS FAN Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Precisely how I feel. For the last decade or so, the Littman/Overdorf message board whispers have been precisely that. Now it's right the !@#$ out there, in everyone's faces, for better or for worse. The Bills had no obligation to address the rumors before, they're compelled to now. Doesn't mean they will, of course. I honestly believe the only thing that WILL lead to some sort of meaningful action, is the media's treatment of this. The FO isn't stupid. When it comes to damage control, if you survive the first 24 hours, you're pretty much in the clear. If the media (TG, the D&C, et al) pick this up and continue to pursue it, then Russ has a bona fide quagmire on his hands. I gave you more than 3 success stories from the past decade already. http://forums.twobil...60#entry3064908 Nice list, but isn't success on-field measured in wins ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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