K-9 Posted February 18, 2014 Posted February 18, 2014 if your opening offer is 20-30% below what the other side believes the market value is than you may not be considered negotiating in good faith yourself, if their assessment is fair/accurate. What was the market value for FREE safeties again? GO BILLS!!! I'd do a 7 year deal. $10mm this year with $8mm guaranteed. Next year same thing. Year three flat our $8mm all guaranteed with $2mm in clauses. FS last a while in this league and he plays smart football not to injure himself. tag him. Play him. Hang year 3 over his head and trade him I've got no problem with that. Although a year 3 tag would pay him top 5 QB money so I can't see them doing that. But he's a bargain at 8.3 this year. GO BILLS!!!
Doc Posted February 18, 2014 Posted February 18, 2014 I agree. He's a pretty good bargain at $8.3 still. I'd like to think the PF is a thing of the past, too. GO BILLS!!! He said he wouldn't play last year until he was healthy, and he came back after game 5, when he could have waited until game 8. That tells me his PF is over and he can't use it as an excuse.
NoSaint Posted February 18, 2014 Posted February 18, 2014 (edited) What was the market value for FREE safeties again? what was the bills highest offer is just as easy a leading question... and ill again say we dont know other than there is a large gap between the two sides seemingly. in the 8s seems like the market value in my book, but i will point out hes better than a goldson who got over 8 last year, so what byrds actual value is hasnt really been tested. if teams believe he is solidly better than goldson, perhaps the fair market value is in the 9s (or maybe even 10 if the report is true). if it is in the 9s and we may have offered him low 7s thats a substantial 20-30% discount we were asking him to take in order to stay with us. thats not peanuts. But he's a bargain at 8.3 this year. GO BILLS!!! if hes a bargain at 8.3... what is market value? and why were we seemingly offering low/mid 7s if 8.3 is a bargain Edited February 18, 2014 by NoSaint
YoloinOhio Posted February 18, 2014 Posted February 18, 2014 i dont know that you see numbers like that ever, yet alone next year. he would be turning 29 in the 2015 season and a 5 year deal would send him through 33 years old. theres a bit of a crossroads here where the bills are losing leverage as the tag isnt an option next year, but byrd is aging quickly as well and will start seeing fewer years/less money if he keeps waiting. last year i thought low 8s gets it done, this year ill say mid/high 8s would but with those numbers itll drag til july. That was what was tweeted out yesterday - there were 5-6 teams in play to pay him 5yrs/50 mill.
Kirby Jackson Posted February 18, 2014 Posted February 18, 2014 That was what was tweeted out yesterday - there were 5-6 teams in play to pay him 5yrs/50 mill. If that is the case then you should be able to tag and trade him for decent value (better than what was offered last year).
Canadian Bills Fan Posted February 18, 2014 Posted February 18, 2014 Why hasnt he been tagged yet????? lol CBF
NoSaint Posted February 18, 2014 Posted February 18, 2014 (edited) That was what was tweeted out yesterday - there were 5-6 teams in play to pay him 5yrs/50 mill. and i was saying that A) that might not be true, lots of things get tweeted especially when someone like parker might be trying to build leverage in the media. B) in a year its less likely to be true as he is an aging product that will sometime soon cross over his peak and enter a decline. with a 5 year deal at 27/28 youll likely see more prime years than at 29 Edited February 18, 2014 by NoSaint
YoloinOhio Posted February 18, 2014 Posted February 18, 2014 and i was saying that A) that might not be true, lots of things get tweeted B) in a year its less likely to be true as he is an aging product that will sometime soon cross over his peak and enter a decline. with a 5 year deal at 27/28 youll likely see more prime years than at 29 Oh OK - yeah, no idea if it is really the case, anyone can tweet anything
NoSaint Posted February 18, 2014 Posted February 18, 2014 Oh OK - yeah, no idea if it is really the case, anyone can tweet anything i edited a little to add that especially in a contract negotiation you have to weigh the source of that info. i doubt that the reporter approached teams and got 6 to confirm, odds are parker said "yea i got 6 teams that want to offer 10m+" in advance of negotiations going in the next few weeks.
K-9 Posted February 18, 2014 Posted February 18, 2014 what was the bills highest offer is just as easy a leading question... and ill again say we dont know other than there is a large gap between the two sides seemingly. in the 8s seems like the market value in my book, but i will point out hes better than a goldson who got over 8 last year, so what byrds actual value is hasnt really been tested. if teams believe he is solidly better than goldson, perhaps the fair market value is in the 9s (or maybe even 10 if the report is true). if it is in the 9s and we may have offered him low 7s thats a substantial 20-30% discount we were asking him to take in order to stay with us. thats not peanuts. if hes a bargain at 8.3... what is market value? and why were we seemingly offering low/mid 7s if 8.3 is a bargain I'm not asking it as a leading question, but let's say "the market" was 8.5 for free safeties, although I don't hold any illusions that Parker doesn't include the Berry's and Polamalu's as reference points even though they play a different position. If the reports of the Bills offering somewhere between 7-7.5 are true, that doesn't come close to the 20-30% low ball offer you suggested. Given the Bills' recent history of re-signing their own to fair contracts, I don't buy that they negotiated in bad faith. Not at all. I firmly believe Parker doesn't budge from whatever number he deems to be his clients' worth. That may not be bad faith per se, but it leave no room for negotiation. GO BILLS!!!
enlightener Posted February 18, 2014 Posted February 18, 2014 What is taking Russ so long to get this done. Pay the man. He had 10 starts and still made the Pro Bowl. very cleverly thought out post title....
K-9 Posted February 18, 2014 Posted February 18, 2014 what was the bills highest offer is just as easy a leading question... and ill again say we dont know other than there is a large gap between the two sides seemingly. in the 8s seems like the market value in my book, but i will point out hes better than a goldson who got over 8 last year, so what byrds actual value is hasnt really been tested. if teams believe he is solidly better than goldson, perhaps the fair market value is in the 9s (or maybe even 10 if the report is true). if it is in the 9s and we may have offered him low 7s thats a substantial 20-30% discount we were asking him to take in order to stay with us. thats not peanuts. if hes a bargain at 8.3... what is market value? and why were we seemingly offering low/mid 7s if 8.3 is a bargain He's a bargain at 8.3 if Parker is insisting on 10m plus. He's a downright steal by comparison. HIs market value is whatever anyone is willing to pay him. GO BILLS!!!
NoSaint Posted February 18, 2014 Posted February 18, 2014 (edited) I'm not asking it as a leading question, but let's say "the market" was 8.5 for free safeties, although I don't hold any illusions that Parker doesn't include the Berry's and Polamalu's as reference points even though they play a different position. If the reports of the Bills offering somewhere between 7-7.5 are true, that doesn't come close to the 20-30% low ball offer you suggested. Given the Bills' recent history of re-signing their own to fair contracts, I don't buy that they negotiated in bad faith. Not at all. I firmly believe Parker doesn't budge from whatever number he deems to be his clients' worth. That may not be bad faith per se, but it leave no room for negotiation. GO BILLS!!! Bad faith may have been a poor term but overall not productively negotiating (which doesn't always make either party wrong if the values for the individuals simply don't lineup) may fairly characterize both sides. 8.5 would be the type of offer if they walked away I'd say the bills took an honest shot at resigning him. Id guess if we don't tag him and let him become an ufa he tops that 8.5 number though (heck, sounds like Parker says it tops 10m!)... And even at 8.5 vs 7 you are getting pretty close to that 20-30% range I gave. No idea where the bills fell but if we found out they offered 7.5 and byrd signs elsewhere for 8.5 I don't know how long Parker will have a job if he had JB play ball that hard and risk so much over that little. We will see, maybe. Edited February 18, 2014 by NoSaint
K-9 Posted February 18, 2014 Posted February 18, 2014 Bad faith may have been a poor term but overall not productively negotiating (which doesn't always make either party wrong if the values for the individuals simply don't lineup) may fairly characterize both sides. 8.5 would be the type of offer if they walked away I'd say the bills took an honest shot at resigning him. Id guess if we don't tag him and let him become an ufa he tops that 8.5 number though (heck, sounds like Parker says it tops 10m!)... And even at 8.5 vs 7 you are getting pretty close to that 20-30% range I gave. No idea where the bills fell but if we found out they offered 7.5 and byrd signs elsewhere for 8.5 I don't know how long Parker will have a job if he had JB play ball that hard and risk so much over that little. We will see, maybe. Yeah, I thought suggesting the Bills negotiated in "bad faith" was a bit strong especially when we know that if a party is not willing to budge then by definition you can't have a good faith negotiation. I'm comfortable saying Parker is that party. Just to be clear, I was strictly talking about last years numbers, not this year. I believe 8.5 was that number last year and the Bills had a good jumping off point between 7-7.5. But at at 8.3, he's a huge bargain if that $10m number is to be believed. That number was floated by someone and I have to wonder who that best serves at this point. I also look for the next Tim Graham shill piece to be out soon. GO BILLS!!!
NoSaint Posted February 18, 2014 Posted February 18, 2014 But at at 8.3, he's a huge bargain if that $10m number is to be believed. That number was floated by someone and I have to wonder who that best serves at this point. I also look for the next Tim Graham shill piece to be out soon. GO BILLS!!! oh for sure, i think i was the first to question it when reported. were ramping up for some media attention to the situation again, both real and fabricated for leverage. im sure we have some meltdowns in either direction coming soon with any tweet.
shibuya Posted February 18, 2014 Posted February 18, 2014 (edited) What was the market value for FREE safeties again? problem is they lump SS and FS together.. SS IMO is the more demanding position http://www.spotrac.c...afety/limit-25/ I don' think Byrd is better then Troy was at his peak. Arguments for him being as good as Berry or Gholdston Troy only got $10 mil guarenteed in his contract Berry got $25 mill guarenteed Gholdson got $18 mil guarenteed Weddle got $19 mil guarenteed I think Byrd needs $20 mil guarenteed and $9 mil per season heavily back loaded contract Troy Polamalu at Safety $9,866,667 Eric Berry at Safety $8,340,717 Dashon Goldson at Safety $8,250,000 Eric Weddle at Safety $8,000,000 Antrel Rolle at Safety $7,420,000 Reshad Jones at Safety $7,340,000 Kam Chancellor at Safety $7,000,502 Edited February 18, 2014 by shibuya
papazoid Posted February 19, 2014 Posted February 19, 2014 February 19, 2014 12:25 pm Big meeting set for Bills, Jairus Byrd by Larry Hartstein | CBSSports.com The Bills and safety Jairus Byrd's reps will meet this week in Indianapolis, and if the sides can't make progress on a long-term deal "expect the Bills to tag Byrd with the likely mindset of trying to move him," reports WGR 550 A.M. "They just can't let him go for nothing." http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/rumors
purple haze Posted February 19, 2014 Posted February 19, 2014 (edited) I don't get the Byrd hatred by some. He has been a great player for us. He's been a top tier safety since the first day he stepped on the field. It can be argued that he's now the best safety in the game. So he decided last year that he wants to get paid what he has earned. What's wrong with that? Some will say that he was selfish for not playing through his plantar fasciitis last year like he has in the past. Question is, why should he have? After they weren't willing to pay him what he earned, why should he want to risk injury for the organization that wouldn't pay him? I'm sure there have been enough examples of what could happen if he did, just look at Dustin Keller. Get injured on a one year franchise tag, and he's possibly missing out on an extra 20 million in guaranteed money that usually comes with long term deals. Some will say he's a jerk because he doesn't appreciate that he gets to play a game and shouldn't cry about being underpaid when he makes a lot more than the average person. This is ridiculous to me. This isn't a game to them, it is their job. They need to look out for themselves and their family and no one else. It's also amazing how some people have such a crude business mentality when it comes to the team cutting players but then get angry when the player treats it as a business. Just look at the dozens of Stevie threads. The guy for two years extremely outplayed his rookie 7th round pick contract. In 2010 he was the highest rated value player in the league. He gets the contract he earned, has one down year, and now a lot of fans want to cut him or trade him because his production didn't meet his salary in one year. Did anyone support him holding out after he completely outperformed his contract in his breakout year? I doubt it. There's also the fact that he admittedly is sick of playing in a new defensive scheme every year. Can't blame him there. It's not as easy to overlook being unhappy about certain aspects of any job if you are not getting what you think you deserve. Rant over. Amen. And amen. People need to get over the “they get paid to play a game” mentality. It’s hypocritical. If most on this board got paid 75 thousand a year to do a specific job and they discovered someone at another firm got paid 125 thousand to do the same job, they would talk to their bosses about a raise; especially if they had received accolades for doing great work. And if someone who made 25 thousand a year said you were being selfish you wouldn’t think twice about it. In Byrd’s industry 7 million is NOT his market value. His market value is over 9 million based on accomplishment and peer salary. It’s that simple. It’s not personal. Nor does it mean he is not grateful to be making what he makes. That, however, does not mean he should accept below market value because “he would be rich anyway.” It’s business. And it’s his business. Edited February 19, 2014 by purple haze
NDBUFFCUSEFAN Posted February 19, 2014 Posted February 19, 2014 Amen. And amen. People need to get over the “they get paid to play a game” mentality. It’s hypocritical. If most on this board got paid 75 thousand a year to do a specific job and they discovered someone at another firm got paid 125 thousand to do the same job, they would talk to their bosses about a raise; especially if they had received accolades for doing great work. And if someone who made 25 thousand a year said you were being selfish you wouldn’t think twice about it. In Byrd’s industry 7 million is NOT his market value. His market value is over 9 million based on accomplishment and peer salary. It’s that simple. It’s not personal. Nor does it mean he is not grateful to be making what he makes. That, however, does not mean he should accept below market value because “he would be rich anyway.” It’s business. And it’s his business. Agreed 100%, I think players should absolutely maximize their first big contract since it may be their only big day and this includes getting every dollar possible guaranteed. If I were an agent I would never advise my client to accept less that the absolute maximum unless the player was at the end of his career chasing a ring or if there were family issues.
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