Jairus Byrd [was Jarius Byrd]

[Thurmal34]

said GM Doug Whaley, who will also be part of contract talks with player agents. "Before we got here we set a priority list and set the parameters of value that we have on each of these guys and we'll go from there and see what they think".

 

http://www.buffalobills.com/news/article-2/Bills-to-talk-with-Byrds-agent-and-other-UFAs/7b785114-a45c-4057-ac32-d8b310dea265

 

 

TRANSLATION: we are not offering what Byrd wants.

 

all a charade.....

 

Sweet, great approach to FA. Assigning value to specific players/positions/production is an excellent way to tackle this process.

Edited February 23, 2014 by Thurmal34

[YoloinOhio]

Sweet, great approach to FA. Assigning value to specific players/positions/production is an excellent way to tackle this process.

This is what every GM has said about their FA process. Makes sense, no? They also all say signing their top guys is a priority. Whaley really can't say much else at this point.

[Kirby Jackson]

the byrd hate is strong but i find it interesting that some of you say he isn't worth x amount and you'd rather have the team spend that money elsewhere. 2 huge issues i have with this.

 

1.you can't talk trash about how he isn't elite but then say that the bills should get a 1st round pick for him. if teams are willing to give a first round pick be honest he's a legit payer.

 

2.what makes you think the bills will use that cap space on other in FA or resigning their own? they have a ton of room and should resign its own players.

 

 

just a little extra thought is the people who say the bills should not pay the safety position that much cause yaddayyadda yadda. think about this if they don't value the position why draft it? let alone in the second round? its like you want the player to be above average but not elite so you don't have to pay him the elite money.

He is an elite Saftey. An elite safety is not worth $10M dollars in this league. I would rather allocate $10M to positions that make a large impact or split between a few places. I felt that Levitre was a really good player as was Poz (neither as good as Byrd) but the money that they got on the open market was more than they were worth.

 

I find it funny that people scream about analytics and as the Bills use it everyone gets mad. If Byrd is at $8M then lock him up. If the $10+ number that's rumored is out there no reason to. It is a combination of factors and it is not viewed as is Byrd good. The answer is yes he is a great player. If $10M is the number, is $10M best spent on Byrd or as the example earlier $7M on Ward, $3M on Wharton and a 2nd round pick? If it is me and I can get a starting LG, a pro bowl Saftey and a starting TE (ASJ) for example that is a better decision IMO.

[Sisyphean Bills]

I get your point but Levitre and Poz. Really? I still wouldn't pay them near what they got in free agency so the beat goes on.

 

It's an opportunity cost, even if you don't like the individual player. Making holes in your line-up, scheming around them, losing individual battles, losing games, spending future draft pick(s), and all so as not to have to pay a player a "today" contract (where "today" is a bargain compared to any future top-paid contracts at the position) comparable to what he can get elsewhere.

[BaaadThingsMan]

I do not know if it is that simple. It sounds good? But, its a big pill to swallow when putting it in front of reality. A team that is so unorganized uniting to make a huge decision spending a first round pick for a player that suits their head coach, someone that may or may not work out and is not even the preferred target for the new big chief all while the player is not considered to be truly elite by the measurable blablabla the stats like and is still just a free safety...?

 

I'd like to think it was as simple as Cleveland wanting a premier and elite player to compliment their new head coach and solidify a very good unit... but, I cannot say it is.

Nice post, this answer satisfies my question thanks.

[Reed83HOF]

We are 25 million under the cap this year and won't spend it all. Front load the hell out of the contract to give us more manageable numbers for Glenn, Dareus & CJ....

[NoSaint]

He is an elite Saftey. An elite safety is not worth $10M dollars in this league. I would rather allocate $10M to positions that make a large impact or split between a few places. I felt that Levitre was a really good player as was Poz (neither as good as Byrd) but the money that they got on the open market was more than they were worth.

 

I find it funny that people scream about analytics and as the Bills use it everyone gets mad. If Byrd is at $8M then lock him up. If the $10+ number that's rumored is out there no reason to. It is a combination of factors and it is not viewed as is Byrd good. The answer is yes he is a great player. If $10M is the number, is $10M best spent on Byrd or as the example earlier $7M on Ward, $3M on Wharton and a 2nd round pick? If it is me and I can get a starting LG, a pro bowl Saftey and a starting TE (ASJ) for example that is a better decision IMO.

 

While I don't disagree with the philosophy, I think we need to at somepoint figure out what our cornerstone positions/players are and commit to them (I'm not talking Stevie at 7m or fitz paid as the #20 qb). Part of that issue is that we keep flipping staffs and schemes. If we go get ward, great (though if he gets 8+ to top goldson and keep pace with Byrd it might not be quite the value). Generally I agree with you- Prioritizing value is part of how you assemble a great 53, the other half being using all your resources (ie cap). Get 100% of the potential talent out of 100% of your resources.

 

But your almost certainly wondering in the back of your head, much like I am, what if we overpay Delmas still saving a lot of money from Byrd but taking a risk, his knees give out, we don't spend the money we saved and the third rounder we somehow end up with for Byrd ends up a special teamer.

 

As easy as you make it sound, it's been decades since we've got it right with any reliability.

[littlelouie]

When Russ Brandon took over he said the Bills will do anything to improve the team including free agency. We'll see if he is a snake oil salesman of if he stays true to his word. Time will tell. I myself think he's a snake oil salesman and they won't sign Byrd. I think it's the same old, same old Bills. Develop players and then let them walk because they want to get paid what they are worth. That's been the past practice here and I don't see it changing. The Bills are like a farm system for the rest of the NFL. Draft them, develop them, and then let other teams stock up on good players. Then they wonder why the haven't been a contender for 14 years in a row. Bills fans are all going to heaven, they have suffered enough being Bills fans.

[Kirby Jackson]

 

 

While I don't disagree with the philosophy, I think we need to at somepoint figure out what our cornerstone positions/players are and commit to them (I'm not talking Stevie at 7m or fitz paid as the #20 qb). Part of that issue is that we keep flipping staffs and schemes. If we go get ward, great (though if he gets 8+ to top goldson and keep pace with Byrd it might not be quite the value). Generally I agree with you- Prioritizing value is part of how you assemble a great 53, the other half being using all your resources (ie cap). Get 100% of the potential talent out of 100% of your resources.

 

But your almost certainly wondering in the back of your head, much like I am, what if we overpay Delmas still saving a lot of money from Byrd but taking a risk, his knees give out, we don't spend the money we saved and the third rounder we somehow end up with for Byrd ends up a special teamer.

 

As easy as you make it sound, it's been decades since we've got it right with any reliability.

I hear you. I guess that I have confidence in Whaley and company on the scouting front. I thought that they drafted well and plugged in a few good defensive free agents. By all accounts this is the deepest draft ever so a 2nd or 3rd should statistically be a contributing player.

 

I know that I am oversimplifying it with the example. There are a ton of factors in play, ie if Byrd gets $10 why would Ward settle for $7? I was just trying to play devil's advocate. I like Byrd a lot. The point was more that you can't just make emotional decisions "x" player is great and is asking for "y" so pay him. It is a domino effect and every decision impacts another. The front office's only responsibility is to build the roster that they can. Byrd's only responsibility is to make a decision that is in the best interest of he and his family. There are a million factors that go into these decisions.

[Rubes]

For those of you who don't think a safety is worth $10 million a year...

 

When will a safety be worth that? Remember that the salary cap goes up every year, so individual position value goes up with it. Even for those of you who think $10 million is way too much for a safety...well, eventually, one day, it won't be, assuming the salary cap continues to rise as it has. When will that day be for you?

 

Is it a percent thing? It seems like most of you are happy to pay Byrd $8.5 million per year. Last years salary cap was $123 million. That means you'd be happy spending 6.9% of the cap on him. But the cap is just about to go up by 5% to about $130 million. A $10 million per year contract will now be 7.6% of the cap. Does that really get everyone's panties in a bunch?

 

Salaries and values go up every year. What sounds ridiculous one year will soon be the norm. Many would argue the norm has already changed.

 

[FireChan]

For those of you who don't think a safety is worth $10 million a year...

 

When will a safety be worth that? Remember that the salary cap goes up every year, so individual position value goes up with it. Even for those of you who think $10 million is way too much for a safety...well, eventually, one day, it won't be, assuming the salary cap continues to rise as it has. When will that day be for you?

 

Is it a percent thing? It seems like most of you are happy to pay Byrd $8.5 million per year. Last years salary cap was $123 million. That means you'd be happy spending 6.9% of the cap on him. But the cap is just about to go up by 5% to about $130 million. A $10 million per year contract will now be 7.6% of the cap. Does that really get everyone's panties in a bunch?

 

Salaries and values go up every year. What sounds ridiculous one year will soon be the norm. Many would argue the norm has already changed.

 

And when Dareus and Glenn want contracts, they'll want even more money. And we won't be able to pay them.

[klos63]

For those of you who don't think a safety is worth $10 million a year...

 

When will a safety be worth that? Remember that the salary cap goes up every year, so individual position value goes up with it. Even for those of you who think $10 million is way too much for a safety...well, eventually, one day, it won't be, assuming the salary cap continues to rise as it has. When will that day be for you?

 

Is it a percent thing? It seems like most of you are happy to pay Byrd $8.5 million per year. Last years salary cap was $123 million. That means you'd be happy spending 6.9% of the cap on him. But the cap is just about to go up by 5% to about $130 million. A $10 million per year contract will now be 7.6% of the cap. Does that really get everyone's panties in a bunch?

 

Salaries and values go up every year. What sounds ridiculous one year will soon be the norm. Many would argue the norm has already changed.

Good points, I don't understand how fans value players, let alone wonder why we even care what the team spend. Get and keep top players and let the team worry about the money. We as fans don't have near enough knowledge of what the plans of the team are in regards to personnel and cap strategy long term. Just sit back and hope they keep the right players, like Byrd.

And please can people stop with the silly trade proposals. I wonder if a fan ever actually predicted a trade that really happened.

[NoSaint]

 

 

And when Dareus and Glenn want contracts, they'll want even more money. And we won't be able to pay them.

We are allowed to have lots of good players. I promise. Other teams do it. And then they win games, and even make the playoffs. Paying Byrd and extra fraction of a percent of our salary cap won't cripple us from signing all our good players. Last year the argument was let levitre walk so we could afford Byrd. Now we can't afford Byrd or we will lose 2 players according to many around here (I've seen Glenn, spiller, dareus and even the all pro contract we are sure to owe Aaron Williams all mentioned, typically in pairs)

Edited February 23, 2014 by NoSaint

[Ramius]

It's an opportunity cost, even if you don't like the individual player. Making holes in your line-up, scheming around them, losing individual battles, losing games, spending future draft pick(s), and all so as not to have to pay a player a "today" contract (where "today" is a bargain compared to any future top-paid contracts at the position) comparable to what he can get elsewhere.

 

And where would we be if we did what you suggest and signed Poz for 7 mil and Levitre for 8 mil per year? We'd have 10 mil in cap space, be unable to sign Byrd at all or even make a reasonable offer or tag him.

 

Then we'd have you and Billsvet bashing he team for overpaying a mediocre LB and paying an OG 8 mil and thus hamstringing the team from signing anyone else.

[Kirby Jackson]

For those of you who don't think a safety is worth $10 million a year...

 

When will a safety be worth that? Remember that the salary cap goes up every year, so individual position value goes up with it. Even for those of you who think $10 million is way too much for a safety...well, eventually, one day, it won't be, assuming the salary cap continues to rise as it has. When will that day be for you?

 

Is it a percent thing? It seems like most of you are happy to pay Byrd $8.5 million per year. Last years salary cap was $123 million. That means you'd be happy spending 6.9% of the cap on him. But the cap is just about to go up by 5% to about $130 million. A $10 million per year contract will now be 7.6% of the cap. Does that really get everyone's panties in a bunch?

 

Salaries and values go up every year. What sounds ridiculous one year will soon be the norm. Many would argue the norm has already changed.

To answer your question I don't know when it would be okay. I think that it is easier to find a good safety than say a good push rusher. Saftey is a position much like OG and Levitre that I would put a number to (maybe it is 7% of the cap) and then I wouldn't exceed it. To use the Levitre example last year if they would have signed Brandon Moore for example at $4M it would have been the right decision. Levitre is not worth double what Moore is. NoSaint brought up Delmas. If you got Delmas for half of Byrd and then a starting G, LB, RT or TE with the other $5M and a 2nd-3rd are the Bills better off?It is a question that has to be asked.

 

You make some strong points and I don't necessarily disagree. There is a point to where it will be too much.

[purple haze]

How could they have him for nothing next year? What if some other team offers him even more money? It's the difference between a sure thing and an off season bidding war. And it's a win now league. You don't take a year off getting good players because you have a shot of getting him for less if everything goes exactly to plan.

 

 

 

Name one good player we let go in the last 4 years. We haven't been same ole same ole since Nix came here. I understand we have a "reputation" but it's invalid at best in recent years.

 

Especially when teams like the Ravens/Steelers have been letting good players walk much more frequently in the last 4 years.

 

I didn’t say “good” players. I said “elite” players. There is a difference. And the elite players have been few over the years, but starting with Clements, Winfield, Big Pat, Jason Peters… Those guys were elite at their positions at the time they were eligible for FA and the Bills let them walk, rightly or wrongly.

 

The Bills have re-signed many good players. The guys who are seen as amongst the best at their position have been the ones they have a reputation for letting walk away. And all of the players I cited were drafted or UDFA the Bills developed. Kyle Williams is one elite guy the Bills have kept in the fold though. I think the real issue is that the Bills have let many of their few elite players walk, but haven’t necessarily used the money saved to sign good players to fill the roster back out in a way that would lead to wins. I liked Nix a lot and appreciated his efforts. Brandon has said he is not hamstrung in the use of money or the way business is conducted in general, etc. etc. He has shown that with coaching searches and hires. The renovations on The Ralph. Byrd is another litmus test in this regard. The Bills have to get this right, whichever way it plays out.

 

If the Bills don’t re-sign Byrd I would be disappointed, but if they take the money they did not use on him and sign other, viable free agents as well as signing players on the verge of being elite at their position to early extensions such as Dareus, Glenn, Spiller I would be fine with that. So long as they received a first round pick OR a second and third in the 2014 draft for Byrd in a tag-and-trade.

Edited February 23, 2014 by purple haze

[littlelouie]

FireChan- When Darieus and Glenn want contracts, what makes you think the Bills will give it to them? What makes you think the Front office won't let them walk like they did with Levitre and now Byrd?? I'll tell you right now "IF" Glenn becomes one of the top tackles in the league he will want a contract that is off the charts Don't you think he will demand what he is worth? The Bill could find themselves in he same situation they are in now with Byrd. If they keep letting great players, that are in their prime walk, they will always be a 6 ad 10 team. You can take that to the bank.

[ALF]

Dareus will be UFA after this next season, extend his contract now before it expires. If you can't reach a deal you trade, not go thru a 3 ring circus like Byrd, or walk away for nothing like Levitre.

[K-9]

I think we throw around the word "elite" to the point where it's become diluted and means less than it once did.

 

There's a difference, in my book anyway, of being the best available FA at a particular position vs. being "elite" at the position.

 

Think of some of the truly "elite" players at various positions over the years and you'll see what I mean. For me, the only one that we've "let go" that approaches "elite" status is Jason Peters.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[thebandit27]

FireChan- When Darieus and Glenn want contracts, what makes you think the Bills will give it to them? What makes you think the Front office won't let them walk like they did with Levitre and now Byrd?? I'll tell you right now "IF" Glenn becomes one of the top tackles in the league he will want a contract that is off the charts Don't you think he will demand what he is worth? The Bill could find themselves in he same situation they are in now with Byrd. If they keep letting great players, that are in their prime walk, they will always be a 6 ad 10 team. You can take that to the bank.

 

How about the fact that the same front office gave new deals to:

 

Freddie

Stevie

Chandler

Wood

Urbik

Pears

Kyle Williams

McKelvin

 

They do re-sign players...the vast majority of them in fact.

 

What they don't do is overpay; a process that keeps them from handing out a ludicrous $8M/year to guys like Andy Levitre, who did absolutely nothing for Tennessee's running game this year despite playing next to a Pro Bowl LT and a highly rated rookie center/guard combo.

 

And for the record--it sounds like they'll be keeping Byrd; how is this a bad thing again?

 

I think we throw around the word "elite" to the point where it's become diluted and means less than it once did.

 

There's a difference, in my book anyway, of being the best available FA at a particular position vs. being "elite" at the position.

 

Think of some of the truly "elite" players at various positions over the years and you'll see what I mean. For me, the only one that we've "let go" that approaches "elite" status is Jason Peters.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

An elite safety is Earl Thomas, Kam Chancellor, Eric Weddle, Eric Berry, or Ed Reed/Troy Polamalu in their primes.

 

Byrd is very good--he doesn't sniff what the elite guys do...

Edited February 23, 2014 by thebandit27