Utah John Posted March 13, 2014 Posted March 13, 2014 The end of the line for Byrd was the Falcons loss in Toronto this year. Go back and read the interviews. Byrd wasn't the only player disgusted by the lack of focus on WINNING. These are pros who want to be paid, but they also want to WIN. The single most important thing the Bills can do to reverse the perception (and reality) that this organization is just about making money for Ralph's estate, and his rich buddies (Littman, you're the devil in a pinstriped suit, and I can't wait till you're gone) is end the Toronto series for good. This series has been an infection in the Bills world, eating away at the team and preventing it from ever getting healthy.
NoSaint Posted March 13, 2014 Posted March 13, 2014 (edited) I think that this is a legit question. Why is a soon to be 31 year old running back tradable but an in his prime sure fire starter on 30 teams is not? Anyone? Buehler?...Buehler?...Buehler? (please do better than mentioning a conditional pick) <edit> Aren't the Saints the team that stepped up after the Lynch trade & said "we'd have given more if we knew he was available." Maybe OBD doesn't realize that there is a team in NO. </edit> for the sake of furthering your question, sproles just went to the eagles for a 5th round pick on the compensatory side we are 3 signed, 1 lost, and from what ive seen only have 3 realistic losses still on the market. if we sign no one else and lose all 3, wed probably be looking at a 3rd, if we sign one more its probably a 7 (if its one of our own it knocks us to 4 signed 1 lost and 2 outstanding which would be nothing), and two or more FAs would be nothing Edited March 13, 2014 by NoSaint
YoloinOhio Posted March 13, 2014 Posted March 13, 2014 You say no FS is worth that $ but it means we now must move Aaron Williams who was excellent at SS to FS and now force Searcy/Meeks/Williams/new draft pick into that SS role. None of those guys deserve to start. We might have to make a draft pick to secure a strong safety. How do you know that? Anyway, Marrone already said Searcy is staying in the 3rd safety role. They may sign a vet but I think they are very interested in Duke Williams starting. How do you know he isn't good enough to start at this stage of the game?
Beerball Posted March 13, 2014 Posted March 13, 2014 for the sake of furthering your question, sproles just went to the eagles for a 5th round pick on the compensatory side we are 3 signed, 1 lost, and from what ive seen only have 3 realistic losses still on the market. if we sign no one else and lose all 3, wed probably be looking at a 3rd, if we sign one more its probably a 7, and anything more is nothing. To further yours...isn't a byrd in the hand for what is the deepest draft in the history of the NFL (allow me some hyperbole) better than something maybe but maybe not in the 2015 draft? Could a pick in 2014 conceivably help the team in 2014? Could a possible pick in the 2015 draft help the team in 2014? Sorry, this is one that's going to be difficult to let go of. Major screw up by the FO (IMO).
Fingon Posted March 13, 2014 Posted March 13, 2014 the 6m bonus is IN year two. from all reports ive seen. if they intend to keep him past year 3, expect them to turn that into a signing bonus and spread it for the remaining length of the contract while freeing up 5m in space next year for a final push with brees at the helm. Im a saints season ticket holder, you dont have to explain to me how they manage the roster. they care greatly about cap hits and managing the talent, hence they do cut people and restructure deals. but they do it at times that make sense. cutting him after year 2 would create almost 7m in dead money while saving only 3m in cap dollars. they will let him play that year and then re evaluate at the end of year 3 with only 4.4m in dead money but 6.5m in cap savings, and kenny vaccaro becoming a free agent. There are two $6 million bonuses. One in year two, and another $6 mill if he's on the roster on the 3rd league day of of year 3, which is guaranteed for injury only.http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/new-orleans-saints/jairus-byrd/ Year 3 is decision time if he's not on the roster they only pay him $1.4 mill.
NoSaint Posted March 13, 2014 Posted March 13, 2014 (edited) To further yours...isn't a byrd in the hand for what is the deepest draft in the history of the NFL (allow me some hyperbole) better than something maybe but maybe not in the 2015 draft? Could a pick in 2014 conceivably help the team in 2014? Could a possible pick in the 2015 draft help the team in 2014? Sorry, this is one that's going to be difficult to let go of. Major screw up by the FO (IMO). yea, as i dont think we are done signing people, and may even bring back chandler for instance, it wouldnt just be a pick this year vs a pick next, its quickly angling towards a pick this year vs nothing at all. while we may not have gotten the 1st rounder many fans wanted, i have to believe we couldve tagged and traded him to the saints for a late rounder (say the pick they just got for sproles for instance). heck, even a 7 this year wouldve been more productive than nothing at all. that wouldnt be catastrophic, but frustrating. There are two $6 million bonuses. One in year two, and another $6 mill if he's on the roster on the 3rd league day of of year 3, which is guaranteed for injury only. http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/new-orleans-saints/jairus-byrd/ Year 3 is decision time if he's not on the roster they only pay him $1.4 mill. thats his salary for the year becoming guaranteed not a bonus to be paid that day - nitpicking for your purposes, but why i didnt know what you were talking about on a 6m bonus in year 3. while you are used to watching the bills agonize over real dollars, the saints will be making these decisions based on cap space and AFTER year 3 makes MUCH more sense. if byrd is plagued with PF and plays terribly, maybe they abandon ship but at even average safety play theyd be better off eating the cash and making the better cap play. he very well might play the entire 6 years though. Edited March 13, 2014 by NoSaint
KOKBILLS Posted March 13, 2014 Posted March 13, 2014 i feel like you arent understanding how to combine the front loaded and the total average the way im meaning if you still think i might be saying 7.5 the first 3 years. im saying the bills offered (very roughly for the sake of outlining) 10, 10, 10, 5, 5, 5 - thats 7.5m per year but front loading the cash into the deal (probably a little shy of 30 in reality the first three years and a little higher in the backend) the saints gave (again rough as i dont want to double check exacts) 12, 7, 9, 9, 9, 9 (most of those 9s being 8.5ish) if thats the case, of course he didnt want the front loaded deal - because its no more money in the front and a lot smaller overall. OK...I thought you were insinuating that the deal may not have been the 10,10,10, but instead an average of 7.5 over the first three...I think no matter how it was constructed an average of 7.5 was never going to get Byrd and I sure as heck hope the Bills understood that...If they didn't then they're clueless...
FireChan Posted March 13, 2014 Posted March 13, 2014 I think that this is a legit question. Why is a soon to be 31 year old running back tradable but an in his prime sure fire starter on 30 teams is not? Anyone? Buehler?...Buehler?...Buehler? (please do better than mentioning a conditional pick) <edit> Aren't the Saints the team that stepped up after the Lynch trade & said "we'd have given more if we knew he was available." Maybe OBD doesn't realize that there is a team in NO. </edit> We were had. Bamboozled. We thought we would have a shot of keeping Byrd permanently if we didn't use the tag. Then, Jairus got on a plane and it was all over.
GG Posted March 13, 2014 Posted March 13, 2014 I think that this is a legit question. Why is a soon to be 31 year old running back tradable but an in his prime sure fire starter on 30 teams is not? Anyone? Buehler?...Buehler?...Buehler? (please do better than mentioning a conditional pick) <edit> Aren't the Saints the team that stepped up after the Lynch trade & said "we'd have given more if we knew he was available." Maybe OBD doesn't realize that there is a team in NO. </edit> Simple answer, contract. Sproles' has a very manageable contract for the team that trades for him. But even after trading for Byrd, the new team would need to give him a fair market contract. That's why his trade value was very low. Few teams would part with a high pick and give him the contract he wants. That's why, as KtD posited, Bills are gambling that they will get a higher comp pick for losing Byrd than what they would get in a trade.
YoloinOhio Posted March 13, 2014 Posted March 13, 2014 Joe Buscaglia @JoeBuscaglia 44m Apologies, made a slight error on Byrd first year cap hit. His 1st year cap hit will be $3.5M, not the $3.133M. Still, very interesting.
K-9 Posted March 13, 2014 Posted March 13, 2014 (edited) for the sake of furthering your question, sproles just went to the eagles for a 5th round pick on the compensatory side we are 3 signed, 1 lost, and from what ive seen only have 3 realistic losses still on the market. if we sign no one else and lose all 3, wed probably be looking at a 3rd, if we sign one more its probably a 7 (if its one of our own it knocks us to 4 signed 1 lost and 2 outstanding which would be nothing), and two or more FAs would be nothing If I missed a previous explanation, I apologize but doesn't the compensatory pick also factor in the average annual value of the contracts of players lost vs. players gained? Seems Byrd's average of $9m is a lot higher than the averages of those we've signed. What am I missing here? 6. The round of the pick awarded is primarily determined by the annual value of the contract signed. Signed players cancel out lost players with equal contracts, then lower contracts, before canceling out higher contracts. GO BILLS!!! Edited March 13, 2014 by K-9
NoSaint Posted March 13, 2014 Posted March 13, 2014 (edited) If I missed a previous explanation, I apologize but doesn't the compensatory pick also factor in the average annual value of the contracts of players lost vs. players gained? GO BILLS!!! to even qualify to get to that stage you have to lose more people than you sign. losing byrd, but signing rivers and williams would be a net gain of bodies and no pick. losing byrd and signing rivers would typically qualify you as a "net value loss" which is a 7th - the only thing you can get for equal bodies in and out, and what we might be looking at for last year, despite losing levitre on a much bigger contract than anything we signed. if you lost byrd and chandler, but signed rivers - rivers and chandler would cancel and youd start slotting up byrds new contract for a pick. essentially you line up your guys in and out and after you cancel them out if there are people left standing on the loss side thats when you start slotting guys salaries into rounds for picks. in copying something that started 6), you skipped 1-5) Edited March 13, 2014 by NoSaint
YoloinOhio Posted March 13, 2014 Posted March 13, 2014 The end of the line for Byrd was the Falcons loss in Toronto this year. Go back and read the interviews. Byrd wasn't the only player disgusted by the lack of focus on WINNING. These are pros who want to be paid, but they also want to WIN. The single most important thing the Bills can do to reverse the perception (and reality) that this organization is just about making money for Ralph's estate, and his rich buddies (Littman, you're the devil in a pinstriped suit, and I can't wait till you're gone) is end the Toronto series for good. This series has been an infection in the Bills world, eating away at the team and preventing it from ever getting healthy. Since the defense gave that game to ATL, he should have made a few more plays.
Beerball Posted March 13, 2014 Posted March 13, 2014 Simple answer, contract. Sproles' has a very manageable contract for the team that trades for him. But even after trading for Byrd, the new team would need to give him a fair market contract. That's why his trade value was very low. Few teams would part with a high pick and give him the contract he wants. That's why, as KtD posited, Bills are gambling that they will get a higher comp pick for losing Byrd than what they would get in a trade. How many does it take? We know that one would. We can safely say that two would. I would be confident in saying that 3 would. What comp pick?
1B4IDie Posted March 13, 2014 Posted March 13, 2014 (edited) Byrd career int stats. 09-9ints 2010-1int 2011-3ints 2012 -5ins 2013 -4ints. Seems to be rather average safety after rookie year. Never picked Brady. One int against qualty qb.Big Ben. Gronk and Hernandez owned him. Hero against Geno,Gabbert,Glennon,Sanchez type Qbs. Glad hes gone. I found this an interesting post so I went back and looked. The Bills are 10-7 in the 17 games where Byrd had at least one, picking 16 different QBs. Of the 22 career interceptions. 10 interceptions came in the 5 games where he had two interception Jets, Carolina, Houston, Arizona and Jets Again. Below is a list of QBs that he picked, and it is true that most notably, Brady is not on that list. QB Derek Anderson, Mark Sanchez, Jake Delhomme, Matt Schaub, Vince Young, Matt Cassel, Mark Brunell (NYJ), John Beck(Was), Mark Sanchez, Tim Tebow, Matt Cassel, Kevin Kolb, John Skelton, Ryan Tannehill, Chad Henne, Ben Roethlisberger, Geno Smith, Mike Glennon Edited March 13, 2014 by Why So Serious?
KOKBILLS Posted March 13, 2014 Posted March 13, 2014 I found this an interesting post so I went back and looked. The Bills are 10-7 in the games where Byrd had at least one of his 22 interceptions. He Had 7 games with multiple interceptions. Below is a list of QBs that he picked, and it is true that most notably, Brady is not on that list. QB Derek Anderson Mark Sanchez Jake Delhomme Matt Schaub Vince Young Matt Cassel, Mark Brunell (NYJ), John Beck Mark Sanchez Tim Tebow Matt Cassel Kevin Kolb, John Skelton Ryan Tannehill, Chad Henne, Ben Roethlisberger, Geno Smith Mike Glennon That's crazy...The 2nd best QB on that list is Schaub...I think Byrd is a good player...But that list is a QB train-wreck...
NoSaint Posted March 13, 2014 Posted March 13, 2014 I found this an interesting post so I went back and looked. The Bills are 10-7 in the 17 games where Byrd had at least one of his 22 interceptions. He had 7 games with multiple interceptions and picked 18 different QBs. Below is a list of QBs that he picked, and it is true that most notably, Brady is not on that list. some additional perspective though - Brady has averaged only 9 interceptions a year since byrd came into the league. no one picks him off much. by that math hed average 1 int per season against the bills. byrds missed atleast 1 of those games - maybe 2(his rookie year)? the weird thing would be if he had more than 1, statistically.
BackInDaDay Posted March 13, 2014 Posted March 13, 2014 Derek Anderson, Mark Sanchez, Jake Delhomme, Matt Schaub, Vince Young, Matt Cassel, Mark Brunell (NYJ), John Beck(Was), Mark Sanchez, Tim Tebow, Matt Cassel, Kevin Kolb, John Skelton, Ryan Tannehill, Chad Henne, Ben Roethlisberger, Geno Smith, Mike Glennon ..you must also hate Sanchez
YoloinOhio Posted March 13, 2014 Posted March 13, 2014 ..you must also hate Sanchez No I think he picked off Sanchez like 3 times in one game. He should actually be listed again. Love that 2 ex-Bills QBs are on the list.
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