Beerball Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 frozen tundra http://www.businessinsider.com/nasa-satellite-image-shows-ice-cover-on-great-lakes-2014-2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBill Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 It has been a wild winter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mead107 Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 Global warming at work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Hammersticks Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 What's up with Lake Michigan?! Oh, you're too cool to freeze over? Get over yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBill Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 What's up with Lake Michigan?! Oh, you're too cool to freeze over? Get over yourself. It's EII and his lock - messed up the whole lake with his bubblers and such. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mead107 Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 How late has the ice gone out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 Global warming at work No, no, get with the times. Global WarmingTM now causes harsh winters with lots of snow, as compared to ten years ago when it caused mild winters with no snow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mead107 Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 Who caused the glaciers to melt when the US was covered in ice? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 Who caused the glaciers to melt when the US was covered in ice? Lana's ancestors Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 (edited) What's up with Lake Michigan?! Oh, you're too cool to freeze over? Get over yourself. Same w/Lake Ontario, very deep lakes with deep average depths. It creates a "heat pump" w/water from the bottom. Lake Erie being the shallowest, freezes the most. But wait, what about Lake Superior, that is a very deep, actually the deepest on average... Probably has to do with the orientation of the lakes. Ontario east-west & Michigan north south. ?? Lake Michigan and Lake Huron are basically the same lake. Both Huron & Michigan have the same elevation above mean sea level, they are separated by the Straits of Mackinac. Notice where Michigan does freeze. All of Green Bay, all of Traverse Bay, and around the straits @ The Mac, and then the southern basin tip... All the rest of the lake is smooth shoreline and open expanse. Like Ontario, Michigan does not have that many "nooks and crannies" to protect it from the wind and weather patterns, couple that w/the deep average depth and ice is harder to form than say a much more northern lake like Superior... Even know Superior is deep and big... Superior is still stopped up @ The Soo (St. Mary's river) and The Keweenaw @ the middle... Superior is relatively shallow in its eastern basin. In other words, besides being too cool to freeze, there are also many other factors innvolved, mainly the large smooth shorelined expanse of deep open water (unlike Superior & Huron) and very shallow (yet faster moving) Lake Erie. "Before satellites we can only guess as to whether Lake Michigan was ever solidly frozen over. Even in 1979, I had pilots tell me that they could always see some open water. In an average year, the ice on Lake Michigan only reaches a maximum of about 40%. Much of that is shoreline ice, plus Green Bay, Traverse Bay and the stretch from Beaver Is. to the Mac. Bridge. 1977 and 1994 also saw significant ice on Lake Michigan. The maximum ice cover in On the other hand, 1998 was just shy of 15%. Lake Erie is the Great Lake farthest south, yet it’s also the Great Lake that usually gets the highest percentage of ice cover. That’s because Lakie Erie is the shallowest of the Great Lakes, with an average depth of 62 feet and a greatest depth of 210 feet. Lake Michigan averages 279 feet deep, with a maximum depth of 925 feet." Anyway, BFLO is in for a world of hurt... They won't remove the Niagara Ice Boom until sat images show a considerable amount of eastern basin ice has dissappeared naturally by just sitting there melting. No way they let it flush down the Niagara and jam up the power intakes/culverts! Interesting also because, I think in the 1850's, and ice jam down the Niagara in March actually caused the river to dry up above The Falls and dam/stop up The Falls from flowing! Google: the day Niagara Falls stopped flowing. I think it was the 1850's, March. Farmers throughout the area recalled the roar of The Falls going silent. People went to The Falls to see what was happening w/peopl walking onto to dry river bed above and below the mighty cataracts! The ice jam was near BFLO @ the mouth of the river. Edited February 22, 2014 by ExiledInIllinois Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 (edited) It's EII and his lock - messed up the whole lake with his bubblers and such. Actually, we are frozen solid. Gates are operational and getting better. We can accomadate traffic and are still open. It is just that business can't get to the lock. Bubblers helping out on the lower end... What has really helped on the upper gates is opening our filling valves a little and keeping the pit (lock chamber) constantly filled. Warm water from the bottom of the river circulates up and makes the ice disappear from the lock gate recesses! It is is kinda like I explained above w/the open expanse of Lake Michigan/Ontario. Right now, we are over two feet thick and one can shovel the river and have a hockey game! Last boat that came through was over a week and a half ago. We did have a tug come through and start cutting a shipping lane yesterday. That acts like "Roto-Rooter" to get the river ice flowing south. Kinda the "anti-ice boom." There has been a USCG ice breaker in southern Lake Michigan out and about to assist shipping and start to clear the lanes. Tip of southern basin of Lake Michigan is pretty much frozen in. Yet, w/lack of traffic, you know they are stock piling their barges AND we have been quite busy, even busier... As it shows w/my lack of posting! I am just not @ a desk anymore... Have to be out on the wall, chipping ice and making sure things aren't freezing shut. With the thaw, there is elevated risk of failure and flooding. All the sump pumps below river bottom have been shut off due to the discharge pipes being frozen shut. So, those have to be watched religiously so the pits below the river where the electrical cables are run don't flood full of water. That may cause a pretty big boom @ 480 volts! We have bypass valves to pump the water out and onto and over the wall into the river... But that means climbing down into a 10 foot deep pit and then hanging over another 20 foot deep pit to open the bypass valve and then dragging the sump hoses up and over in order to pump the accumulating water out. Again, thawing... Brings a whole other set of problems... The hard work has just begun! But, @ least it is 30 degrees and t-shirt weather! Edited February 22, 2014 by ExiledInIllinois Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 Who caused the glaciers to melt when the US was covered in ice? Oh oh Mr. Kotter! Oh oh Mr. Kotter, pick me! I see what you are doing here! ;-) Could the answer be: Global Warming But it wasn't "human-made global warming." LoL! (Oh... I am in total agreement w/you mead. I tend to lean toward the "rambuctious garden" aprroach on all this.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted February 22, 2014 Author Share Posted February 22, 2014 But wait, what about Lake Superior, that is a very deep, actually the deepest on average Surface area vs total volume Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 (edited) Surface area vs total volume Interesting. I am not computing, please explain. Superior has the largest surface area of the Great Lakes & deepest depths. Why doesn't the warmer bottom of Superior "turn over?" Bathymetry: Lake Erie Lake Huron Lake Michigan Lake Ontario Lake Superior Surface area: 9,910 sq mi (25,700 km2), 23,000 sq mi (60,000 km2), 22,300 sq mi (58,000 km2), 7,340 sq mi (19,000 km2), 31,700 sq mi (82,000 km2) Water volume: 116 cu mi (480 km3), 850 cu mi (3,500 km3), 1,180 cu mi (4,900 km3), 393 cu mi (1,640 km3), 2,900 cu mi (12,000 km3) Elevation: 571 ft (174 m), 577 ft (176 m), 577 ft (176 m), 246 ft (75 m), 600.0 ft (182.9 m) Average depth: 62 ft (19 m), 195 ft (59 m), 279 ft (85 m), 283 ft (86 m), 483 ft (147 m) Maximum depth: 210 ft (64 m), 748 ft (228 m), 925 ft (282 m), 804 ft (245 m), 1,335 ft (407 m) EDIT: Chart formatted for easier reading. Edited February 22, 2014 by ExiledInIllinois Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 (edited) Global warming at work what people don't understand .... Global warming can cause colder winters. Edited February 22, 2014 by BillsFan-4-Ever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 what people don't understand .... Global warming can cause colder winters. What about colder summers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drinkTHEkoolaid Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 Wow thats a lot of ice for superior and Huron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted February 22, 2014 Author Share Posted February 22, 2014 Interesting. I am not computing, please explain. Superior has the largest surface area of the Great Lakes & deepest depths. Why doesn't the warmer bottom of Superior "turn over?" Bathymetry: Lake Erie Lake Huron Lake Michigan Lake Ontario Lake Superior Surface area: 9,910 sq mi (25,700 km2), 23,000 sq mi (60,000 km2), 22,300 sq mi (58,000 km2), 7,340 sq mi (19,000 km2), 31,700 sq mi (82,000 km2) Water volume: 116 cu mi (480 km3), 850 cu mi (3,500 km3), 1,180 cu mi (4,900 km3), 393 cu mi (1,640 km3), 2,900 cu mi (12,000 km3) Elevation: 571 ft (174 m), 577 ft (176 m), 577 ft (176 m), 246 ft (75 m), 600.0 ft (182.9 m) Average depth: 62 ft (19 m), 195 ft (59 m), 279 ft (85 m), 283 ft (86 m), 483 ft (147 m) Maximum depth: 210 ft (64 m), 748 ft (228 m), 925 ft (282 m), 804 ft (245 m), 1,335 ft (407 m) EDIT: Chart formatted for easier reading. Even though it has a large surface area it's depth gives Superior more water than the other Great Lakes combined. Too much volume. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 Even though it has a large surface area it's depth gives Superior more water than the other Great Lakes combined. Too much volume. Wouldn't Superior then be harder to freeze than Michigan & Ontario. I am still not following. Wouldn't deeper water mean warmer water turned to the surface, like Ontario and Michigan? Why does Superior freeze so hard, is a higher latitude (& further west towards the arctic blasts) that much more of a factor? I thought shallower (as Erie is much shallower even given its the most south) means easier to freeze. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted February 22, 2014 Author Share Posted February 22, 2014 Wouldn't Superior then be harder to freeze than Michigan & Ontario. I am still not following. Wouldn't deeper water mean warmer water turned to the surface, like Ontario and Michigan? Why does Superior freeze so hard, is a higher latitude (& further west towards the arctic blasts) that much more of a factor? I thought shallower (as Erie is much shallower even given its the most south) means easier to freeze. You are correct. I have the whole thing backwards. Need more coffee! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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