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The Ukraine is Weak


meazza

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Not true, you throw your silly Libertarian nonsense at me all the time. So are you saying your Liberataran craziness is not honest discussion? I can actually agree with that.

 

Your responses are never honest discussion. Because you are reality-impaired.

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Tougher how? Militarily?

 

Here's a quick selection of headlines and statements for you:

 

"Obama: U.S. weighing steps to 'isolate Russia' over Ukraine crisis"

 

"President Barack Obama said Monday the United States is examining a series of economic and diplomatic steps to "isolate Russia,"

 

"The United States ambassador [to the UN], Samantha Power, urged Russia to “stand down,” and recommended a fact-finding mission by either the United Nations or the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe."

 

"President Obama said on Monday that Russia has violated international law in its military intervention in Ukraine and said the U.S. government has warned it will look at a series of economic and diplomatic sanctions that would isolate Moscow."

 

See what's happening? We're "weighing steps" and "examining options," including "recommending" a "fact-finding mission" (:lol:), while we "warn" Putin that we will "look at" sanctions. That's an incredible amount of fecklessness...and one Putin absolutely knew he could count on since the Syrian fiasco.

 

And it's not like Obama's alone in this, either...

 

 

"France and Germany said that sanctions were not on the table, urging dialogue with Russia first."

 

"At talks on the Ukraine crisis in Brussels, [the EU] agreed no deadlines or details about any punitive measures that could be put in place against Russia,"

 

I'll spell out the key point here, because I know you'll miss it: Putin's doing something. The West is talking about planning on doing something at some time, maybe. Putin is so far inside the West's diplomatic decision cycle that from any realistic, meaningful point of view the West doesn't even have one.

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Here's a quick selection of headlines and statements for you:We're "weighing steps" and "examining options," including "recommending" a "fact-finding mission" ( :lol:), while we "warn" Putin that we will "look at" sanctions. That's an incredible amount of fecklessness...and one Putin absolutely knew he could count on since the Syrian fiasco.

 

Shake-yer-head embarrassing.

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Tom, if you would deign to answer a question from the floor.

 

Are any of the options for the U. S. that I layed out in reply #148 viable ?

 

or would they be just as ineffective as the current "disapproval" strategy ?

 

.

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Putin is so far inside the West's diplomatic decision cycle that from any realistic, meaningful point of view the West doesn't even have one.

Why would you even expect it to be any different? It's "in their own back yard," not ours. Come on Tom, you know these ethnic disputes with mixed populations are a mess and the west has no solution for this crap. They are playing nice now and I bet they continue to do so
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Tom, if you would deign to answer a question from the floor.

 

Are any of the options for the U. S. that I layed out in reply #148 viable ?

 

or would they be just as ineffective as the current "disapproval" strategy ?

 

.

 

The last two are pretty good (though the energy plan would have too long a build-up time to be effective now - it's the kind of thing that should have started about three years ago, IF THE FOOLS IN THE ADMINISTRATION HAD BOTHERED TO PAY ATTENTION!!!!! :wallbash: ) Freezing some Russian assets, and doing so right now, wouldn't necessarily be a bad response either...there's other considerations than just the Crimea to worry about there, and don't know what there is available to do in that regard, but I'm sure there got to be some sort of moderately uncomfortable "Yeah, that shipment of widgets you were expecting? They'll be a little late..." play available.

 

The first idea...I'm sure whatever carrier's in the region has already had it's plans altered (if not, then Obama's an even bigger idiot than I give him credit for). But putting troops in Kiev? That's insane. There's already been shooting involved with Ukrainian troops being used to suppress demonstrations...you want to put American troops in the middle of that.

 

Mostly...this is a problem that the West won't solve, because it's not solvable in less than several years. Putin knows that all he has to do is sit tight for a couple weeks (maybe the end of March, at most), and the Crimea's his, and the West will have moved on to its next crisis.

 

Why would you even expect it to be any different? It's "in their own back yard," not ours. Come on Tom, you know these ethnic disputes with mixed populations are a mess and the west has no solution for this crap. They are playing nice now and I bet they continue to do so

 

Your excuse for the complete lack of foreign policy towards the Ukraine and anticipation of this is "it's far away?"

 

Good GOD, you're a !@#$ing idiot.

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You clowns scream to high heaven because the government is giving simply health care to the poor and now you want us to run all the way around the world to make Russians and Ukranians love each other after centuries of conflict. Morons!

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The last two are pretty good (though the energy plan would have too long a build-up time to be effective now - it's the kind of thing that should have started about three years ago, IF THE FOOLS IN THE ADMINISTRATION HAD BOTHERED TO PAY ATTENTION!!!!! :wallbash: ) Freezing some Russian assets, and doing so right now, wouldn't necessarily be a bad response either...there's other considerations than just the Crimea to worry about there, and don't know what there is available to do in that regard, but I'm sure there got to be some sort of moderately uncomfortable "Yeah, that shipment of widgets you were expecting? They'll be a little late..." play available.

 

The first idea...I'm sure whatever carrier's in the region has already had it's plans altered (if not, then Obama's an even bigger idiot than I give him credit for). But putting troops in Kiev? That's insane. There's already been shooting involved with Ukrainian troops being used to suppress demonstrations...you want to put American troops in the middle of that.

 

Mostly...this is a problem that the West won't solve, because it's not solvable in less than several years. Putin knows that all he has to do is sit tight for a couple weeks (maybe the end of March, at most), and the Crimea's his, and the West will have moved on to its next crisis.

 

 

 

Your excuse for the complete lack of foreign policy towards the Ukraine and anticipation of this is "it's far away?"

 

Good GOD, you're a !@#$ing idiot.

Ya, what the heck does distance have to do with anything?

 

:doh:

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I doubt the international community sees the Crimea penn as worth much effort to defend. Fact is that nearly any nation with a strong military could invade a weak country with nothing more to fear than a lot of white noise and some financial inconveniences. Russia will get what it wants from this situation without much resistance. Putin's biggest risk is with his own people politically.

Edited by keepthefaith
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You clowns scream to high heaven because the government is giving simply health care to the poor and now you want us to run all the way around the world to make Russians and Ukranians love each other after centuries of conflict. Morons!

 

We are?? Didn't we already explain to you that the poor already had health care? And your whole "oh well it's far away and doesn't concern me" is laughable.

Edited by Chef Jim
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Your responses are never honest discussion. Because you are reality-impaired.

 

He's not reality imparied. He's willfully obtuse for the purposes of perpetuating a myth. There are two types of blindly partisan internet posters:

 

1) True-believers. birdog and Jim in Anchorage are the best examples of this on the board.

2) Trumpeteers. They don't believe well over half of the things they're saying, but honesty and truth aren't central to their motives. These guys view politics as team sports, and winning is the only thing that matters. It doesn't matter what their guy does, so long as their team wins and the other guy loses.

 

gatorman is the second type.

 

It's the reason why, as much as I disagree with birdog, and to a lesser extent, Jim; that I'm still willing to smack issues around with them (though birdog no longer reciprocates). Trumpeteers can't be approached with reason, because they are lying to your face while they type; which is why it's not worth talking to gatorman.

Edited by TakeYouToTasker
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As soon as I'm done weighing my options there is a good chance I will have determined that this administration's incompetence has crossed the line and I might just shake my head at it.

 

You can't finish weighing your options until you've suggested a fact-finding mission, at which point your opinion might evolve.

 

Ya, what the heck does distance have to do with anything?

 

:doh:

 

"Sorry...we don't have a policy for you. You're like nine time zones away."

 

Must be why China's drinking our milkshake.

 

I doubt the international community sees the Crimea penn as worth much effort to defend.

 

The irony of that being rather rich.

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http://www.forbes.co...rrency-markets/. watching from the sidelines might be a wise move from a machiavellian perspective.

You'll have to remind me of which part of The Prince detailed how reset buttons and a generally pathetic foreign policy consisting of imaginary red lines and empty bluster is the best way to lure a foe into invading their neighbor resulting in a short term shock to their capital markets.

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