IDBillzFan Posted March 15, 2014 Posted March 15, 2014 Well, bring us disasters like the Iraq War would tend to make some reasonable people look upon them with a tad bit of suspicion Hillary Clinton is a neo-con? Who knew?
Keukasmallies Posted March 15, 2014 Posted March 15, 2014 That keen knife edge of American diplomacy set to unravel difficulties in the Ukraine. Onward oh ship of state!
Tiberius Posted March 15, 2014 Posted March 15, 2014 http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/15/world/europe/pressure-and-intimidation-sweep-crimea-ahead-of-secession-vote.html?hp&_r=0 Putin and Russia tighten their grip before farce referendum. All this situation needs now is a few False flag terrorist actions, or maybe the Russians will provoke a real one.
Tiberius Posted March 15, 2014 Posted March 15, 2014 No one had expected the resolution to pass. Western diplomats had hoped that China would not take Russia’s side, thereby pushing Moscow into an uncomfortable corner. The measure was worded carefully to persuade China to abstain, and it succeeded in doing so, but only after placing Beijing in the tightest corner of all. China does not want to be seen as speaking against its strategic partner, Russia. It also does not want to be seen as endorsing the secession of Crimea, because that might encourage a vote on independence for Tibet or Taiwan. “China has always respected the sovereignty and territorial integrity of all states,” said the Chinese ambassador, Liu Jieyi, in explaining his abstention, while also jabbing a finger at the West. “At the same time we have noticed foreign interference is also an important reason leading to violent clashes on streets of Ukraine.” The Ukrainian ambassador, Yuriy Sergeyev, made it a point to thank China. The Russian ambassador sat with hands folded before him. The United States had proposed the resolution. The one-page text did not name Russia. Rather it declared the referendum over Crimea’s secession to “have no validity.” It affirmed “the sovereignty, independence, unity and territorial sovereignty of Ukraine.” It urged “all parties” to refrain from “unilateral actions and inflammatory rhetoric.” http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/16/world/europe/russia-vetoes-un-resolution-on-crimea.html?hp
Deranged Rhino Posted March 15, 2014 Posted March 15, 2014 Considering there were more than a few posts in here by GG claiming that Russians don't care or understand freedom and would not turn on Putin (badly paraphrased): http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26593249?ocid=socialflow_twitter
DC Tom Posted March 15, 2014 Posted March 15, 2014 Considering there were more than a few posts in here by GG claiming that Russians don't care or understand freedom and would not turn on Putin (badly paraphrased): http://www.bbc.com/n...ialflow_twitter "Tens of thousands" in a city the size of Moscow isn't exactly making your point.
meazza Posted March 15, 2014 Author Posted March 15, 2014 "Tens of thousands" in a city the size of Moscow isn't exactly making your point. Let it go. This is the most writing he's done in years.
Deranged Rhino Posted March 15, 2014 Posted March 15, 2014 "Tens of thousands" in a city the size of Moscow isn't exactly making your point. Completely disagree. Let it go. This is the most writing he's done in years. Agreed.
meazza Posted March 15, 2014 Author Posted March 15, 2014 Completely disagree. Agreed. there at 10 m people in moscow. This is barely a dent so i disagree with you. Putin will do whatever he wants and no one will stop him.
Deranged Rhino Posted March 15, 2014 Posted March 15, 2014 (edited) there at 10 m people in moscow. This is barely a dent so i disagree with you. Putin will do whatever he wants and no one will stop him. Oh, I'm definitely not trying to argue that 10k demonstrators will stop Putin -- even 100,000. It was just a call back to an earlier strand of debate where GG essentially grouped all Russians together as being unwashed masses of ignorant slavs who know nothing of freedom or western philosophies... Things are not black and white. Edited March 15, 2014 by GreggyT
GG Posted March 15, 2014 Posted March 15, 2014 Considering there were more than a few posts in here by GG claiming that Russians don't care or understand freedom and would not turn on Putin (badly paraphrased): http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26593249?ocid=socialflow_twitter Good for them, as they probably caught Putins thugs off guard, or he's ignoring them for a moment. Let's see if this is the once in a decade massive event or if it catches on in the rest of the country before we do a victory lap.
IDBillzFan Posted March 15, 2014 Posted March 15, 2014 Good for them, as they probably caught Putins thugs off guard, or he's ignoring them for a moment. Let's see if this is the once in a decade massive event or if it catches on in the rest of the country before we do a victory lap. We let Syria gas their own people. I'm pretty sure we'll let Putin do whatever the hell he pleases to the protesters.
Deranged Rhino Posted March 16, 2014 Posted March 16, 2014 Good for them, as they probably caught Putins thugs off guard, or he's ignoring them for a moment. Let's see if this is the once in a decade massive event or if it catches on in the rest of the country before we do a victory lap. I agree. I was just being a dick:)
3rdnlng Posted March 16, 2014 Posted March 16, 2014 We let Syria gas their own people. I'm pretty sure we'll let Putin do whatever the hell he pleases to the protesters. The problem here is that there is not much we can really do about it. Give us 10 years with a concerted effort to become energy independent and a net exporter of energy and we can be well on our way to solving not only our deficits, but well on our way to influencing people like Putin. Europe depends on Russia specifically for natural gas. Russia is not much more than an energy company with a military. If we had the ability to change the market dynamics then we would be able to keep things in check. If we used our vast energy reserves here at home to provide cheap energy for manufacturing we could bring that back home. But no, let's instead focus on "Cash for Clunkers" and bailing out union pension funds.
Deranged Rhino Posted March 16, 2014 Posted March 16, 2014 The problem here is that there is not much we can really do about it. Give us 10 years with a concerted effort to become energy independent and a net exporter of energy and we can be well on our way to solving not only our deficits, but well on our way to influencing people like Putin. Europe depends on Russia specifically for natural gas. Russia is not much more than an energy company with a military. If we had the ability to change the market dynamics then we would be able to keep things in check. If we used our vast energy reserves here at home to provide cheap energy for manufacturing we could bring that back home. But no, let's instead focus on "Cash for Clunkers" and bailing out union pension funds. We can do it far quicker if we squeeze the money in London. Which it looks like they are about to.
DC Tom Posted March 16, 2014 Posted March 16, 2014 We can do it far quicker if we squeeze the money in London. Which it looks like they are about to. More interesting will be the Russian response. One wonders if Russia can do without Euros better than the EU can do without energy.
3rdnlng Posted March 16, 2014 Posted March 16, 2014 We can do it far quicker if we squeeze the money in London. Which it looks like they are about to. Well, Europe wants what Russia has and Russia wants what Europe has. It could get ugly. Now if we also had what Europe wants, then we would be the country with the final say. What country in this world do you want having the final say?
DC Tom Posted March 16, 2014 Posted March 16, 2014 Well, Europe wants what Russia has and Russia wants what Europe has. It could get ugly. Now if we also had what Europe wants, then we would be the country with the final say. What country in this world do you want having the final say? Upper Volta.
Tiberius Posted March 16, 2014 Posted March 16, 2014 Good for them, as they probably caught Putins thugs off guard, or he's ignoring them for a moment. Let's see if this is the once in a decade massive event or if it catches on in the rest of the country before we do a victory lap. Once in a decade? Were you under a rock in 2011 when the last anti Putin rallies happened?
3rdnlng Posted March 16, 2014 Posted March 16, 2014 Once in a decade? Were you under a rock in 2011 when the last anti Putin rallies happened? Just what were those rallies about?
Recommended Posts