QB turmoil possible in Buffalo

[Doc]

Go back a couple months and look at the comments. I could name several who railed against the thought of bringing in competition.

The question is, by "competition," who and what do you mean? A veteran who will split reps with him, or who will get fewer reps, or a rookie who will do the same?

[Beerball]

The question is, by "competition," who and what do you mean? A veteran who will split reps with him, or who will get fewer reps, or a rookie who will do the same?

Makes "no difference." When I first broached the subject the season was far from over so we had no idea where the team would be drafting. People were vehemently opposed to the thought of bringing in competition for EJ. I'd tell you to search my posts but I'm too prolific.

[Wattdogg35]

I don't see the point in arguing about EJ. Fact is he didn't play enough to find out who he is. From the season he had you can see that, he has to work on his progressions and footwork. That will help his accuracy. If his accuracy improves then so will his confidence. If that happens he can be solid b/c in a few games this year when it came pressure time, he stood up and made plays. On buffalobills.com they did a little stat sheet about last 4 mins of each half, he improved dramatically. yes, teams tend to go into a prevent defense, but we have seen many QB's, lots of them in a Bills uni, choke, even when the other team was in the prevent. so, what's this all mean? EJ needs to play this year, we need to have some sort of contingency play in place, which BTW Kirk Cousins is NOT IT! Matt Schaub would be a great pick up, houston has no offensive clue.

[1billsfan]

Makes "no difference." When I first broached the subject the season was far from over so we had no idea where the team would be drafting. People were vehemently opposed to the thought of bringing in competition for EJ. I'd tell you to search my posts but I'm too prolific.

 

I'm pretty darn sure there were no QBs available that would have been any sort of competition to EJ Manuel. He was going to beat out Kolb who was considered one of the best FA QBs available at the time of his signing. Exactly who were you wanting them to bring in during the season?

[starrymessenger]

 

 

Bravo, this sums up EJ about as well as you possibly could in one simple sentence.

I greatly respect the opinion of Louis Riddick, a blogger who (unlike a James Walker or a Tim Graham) has actually played DB in the NFL, and knows what he is looking at when he watches film. And I completely agree with his take.

The Bills said what had to be said about EJ going into the offseason, but I do not think Marrone will risk his employment status by staying married to him if EJ doesn’t produce enough. If EJ plays a few games early on in 2014 that are reminiscent of what he did in the Meadowlands, Pittsburgh, or Tampa, I would not be surprised to see him pulled/benched.

And that is why I want Whaley and Co. to bring in another guy now (Schaub? Cassel? Cousins? 2nd/3rd round pick?) – whomever they decide could potentially take over the club if EJ is simply more of the same. I do like Thad, he is our 3rd at worst, but I do not want to be in that “play out the schedule” mode again.

We can win a lot of games in 2014 with our defense & some efficient Dalton-esque quarterback play.

 

I think you're onto something there.

Something good.

Keep up the good work.

 

 

 

Marrone may have no choice when it's all said and done. The decision to take EJ was apparently a group one, and while I'm not saying Brandon made the pick, he as team president had to sign off on it as most teams have ownership involved when money is being spent on a player and/or drafted highly.

 

If the Bills were somehow to move away from EJ, it reflects poorly on not only Marrone, but casts doubt on the decision making of the GM and president.

 

They will look even stupider if they trot out a guy who drowns out the crowd week after week with a tremendous sucking sound.

If you've made a mistake refusing to correct it will only make matters worse.

Not saying EJ will suck. Just addressing the hypothetical that was posited, which by the way is a possibility.

[HankBulloughMellencamp]

Cousins did not look good in the few games he had at the end of last season. He has fewer starts in the NFL than EJ. I don't think he fits the bill in Buffalo at all to be honest.

 

Dalton and efficient in the same sentence? Give EJ AJ Green to throw to I think he would look "efficient". I'm sorry I'm not a fan. Not at all.

 

Not sure whom we should get, and didn’t mean to turn my post into something about the merits of Andy Dalton as a QB. I can’t defend his playoff performance thus far, but he HAS played well enough to lead the Bengals to three straight playoff appearances as a starter, which is not awful by any performance standard.

p.s. I see that Louis Riddick was a pro personnel director in Philly, lending even more weight to his words.

p.s.s. I’d love to see Schaub in here.

[Mikie2times]

I just don't get our philosophy at the QB position the last decade. It's either a Rookie or a fringe Vet we hope can pan out. Then we go all in on that one player. Then we treat the player like we treat our coaches. Anywhere from 2-3 years and see you later. Usually the decision to only try the experiment 2-3 years is justified because we haven't picked good coaches or good QB's since the glory days, still, it's always 2-3 years of wasted time, repeat the process and start all over again. We force ourselves into these commitments because we always are drafting a first round QB. God forbid we target some 3rd-6th round players, use a couple selections at QB in a year (many QB's do in fact pan out at the mid round level). Proportionately, a completely disproportionate amount do comparative to other positions. It's such a critical position, it would just be nice to get a few mid level draft picks spent at QB. Take on more of a volume strategy. Best man for the job and we don't get that forced 2-3 year commitment a first round pick guarantees. Even though he didn't pan out Trent Edwards was probably my most optimistic QB draft pick we had in a long time, just because he wasn't a damn 1st rounder and has potential. You just don't know what your getting with those types, but what you don't get is the investment factor. They need to win the job and perform well to keep the job. Just about all first round QB's barring abomination will get at least 2 years.

 

It is way too early to tell with EJ, which is an easy statement to make, it's true, also one we have used with countless other quarterbacks over the years. Personally, I don't think EJ is our guy. I base it more just from watching him at FSU vs his first season. I remember always thinking when I saw his FSU games that he was gonna rob a team one day. Great skill set, the kind that gets you drafted in the first round, but he didn't seem to have the overall game I would expect to see translate to the NFL. He struggled in the areas I was concerned about, areas most rookies struggle in. We will see. Either way I would like us to look at 1 or 2 mid level QB's this year in the draft.

[BillsVet]

They will look even stupider if they trot out a guy who drowns out the crowd week after week with a tremendous sucking sound.

If you've made a mistake refusing to correct it will only make matters worse.

Not saying EJ will suck. Just addressing the hypothetical that was posited, which by the way is a possibility.

 

From a W-L perspective, if they put a bad QB on the field then yes it'll be bad. I'm trying to make the point that egos are at stake here and this is their guy. They don't want to be criticized for making a bad decision and so I think Manuel will get at least this year. If he's not good, well, they'll spin things. If he is, no problem.

 

Worst case scenario is Thad Lewis or perhaps someone acquired this off-season out-plays their 2013 first round pick and a QB controversy ensues. There's no hiding that.

[Doc]

From a W-L perspective, if they put a bad QB on the field then yes it'll be bad. I'm trying to make the point that egos are at stake here and this is their guy. They don't want to be criticized for making a bad decision and so I think Manuel will get at least this year. If he's not good, well, they'll spin things. If he is, no problem.

 

Worst case scenario is Thad Lewis or perhaps someone acquired this off-season out-plays their 2013 first round pick and a QB controversy ensues. There's no hiding that.

Actually worst case scenario would be EJ getting hurt and Lewis or someone else coming in and proving he can't do it. Best case is EJ proves he's the guy or anyone who replaces him does.

[Beerball]

I'm pretty darn sure there were no QBs available that would have been any sort of competition to EJ Manuel. He was going to beat out Kolb who was considered one of the best FA QBs available at the time of his signing. Exactly who were you wanting them to bring in during the season?

I was referring to this next upcoming draft. You don't make your team better by bringing in street FA's in the middle of the season.

[1billsfan]

I was referring to this next upcoming draft. You don't make your team better by bringing in street FA's in the middle of the season.

 

I understand now. However, I think the Bills 1st round pick will eventually be Watkins, Ebron or Benjamin. I think they are going to give Manuel a fighting chance for success in his second year and that entails getting a top target. So having said that, I'm not sure after the 1st round any QB gives Manuel a run for his money.

[SlamnSam]

I think that this thread will spin out of control soon. EJ is a bit of an unknown so we should be skeptical but he is still young. My thoughts are that he goes through his progressions slowly, is inaccurate, has poor footwork, and does not make good presnap adjustments. In addition, it is terrifying to me that they scaled back the playbook in week 14 or whatever it was. I did not even mention the injuries.

 

With that being said the Bills are committed to him this year. If he develops, great and if not you have a team in place with a lot of talent elsewhere. You can explore options in the draft or may even be in a position to take a run at a veteran. Guys like Cutler, Manning and Alex Smith have all changed teams at different points and went to franchises that were more ready to win.

 

EJ is certainly the biggest question mark and the most important player. Let's hope that the added coaching helps him to develop into the franchise guy that the Bills have lacked. He is certainly the type of character player that you route for.

 

I dont understand these statements that EJ is a big question mark. There is nothing to question, he is not an NFL QB, period dot. Get over it and lets move on. Please why dont you compare this hasbeen, or never was to Thad Lewis numbers? Becasue EJ flat out sucks. This is a deadhorse and this guy has shown his colors, not ready for prime time, maybe CFL.

[GunnerBill]

Not sure whom we should get, and didn’t mean to turn my post into something about the merits of Andy Dalton as a QB. I can’t defend his playoff performance thus far, but he HAS played well enough to lead the Bengals to three straight playoff appearances as a starter, which is not awful by any performance standard.

 

p.s. I see that Louis Riddick was a pro personnel director in Philly, lending even more weight to his words.

 

p.s.s. I’d love to see Schaub in here.

 

Haha I know you didn't. So I won't either. I could certainly get behind bringing Schaub in, I still think he can be a mid level game manager type of starting calibre Quarterback. Will he not ask for decent money though?

[SactoBillFan]

I dont understand these statements that EJ is a big question mark. There is nothing to question, he is not an NFL QB, period dot. Get over it and lets move on. Please why dont you compare this hasbeen, or never was to Thad Lewis numbers? Becasue EJ flat out sucks. This is a deadhorse and this guy has shown his colors, not ready for prime time, maybe CFL.

 

Wow, you sure about that? Pretty strong after just 10 games. I think you are a little off base.

[Kirby Jackson]

I have asked this before but what specifically about EJ's game so far do people like? I think that he has been good late in games but that's about it. Please don't say "he's young" or tell me how many starts that he has. What specifically have you seen that give you hope?

Edited February 18, 2014 by Kirby Jackson

[YoloinOhio]

Wow, you sure about that? Pretty strong after just 10 games. I think you are a little off base.

"Period dot." So he must be!

[respk]

The Bills really need to draft a QB in rounds 1-3 or get someone in free agency that could have a chance to start. And to improve the chances that whoever is the QB succeeds in the next two years they need to get a #1 wide receiver and an addition to the OL. Manuel hasn't proven that he is the answer, but he also hasn't proven he isn't. Given that QB is by far the most important position on the field the Bills have to hedge their bet on Manuel. If Manuel plays 16 games next year they'll know one way or another whether to continue with him for the 3rd year or to try whoever they get this year. If they don't, Marrone's chances of staying around for his 4th year aren't good.

[GunnerBill]

I have asked this before but what specifically about EJ's game so far do people like? I think that he has been good late in games but that's about it. Please don't say "he's young" or tell me how many starts that he has. What specifically have you seen that give you hope?

 

I like then way he has played late in games, when we have had a chance late in games he has been in he has given us the chance to win. I also like the way he went from one of his worst performances the first time we played Jets to one of his best if not his best the second time. Thirdly I like his calmness. I know there are plenty on here who think leadership is about going around screaming in people's faces when things go wrong. I don't believe that. Leadership is about control. You are not in control when you are screaming in people's faces. Even in the games where he played poorly he remained calm, that will serve him well going forward.

 

Make no mistake, he has to get better. Take out the Tampa game and he generally avoided the big mistakes, but he has to show that he is willing to risk the mistake in order to scoop the big reward and then be able to execute under that pressure. His footwork has to improve, his intermediate range throws into tight spots has to improve (would be helped by better pass receivers as well) and he has to start games better. If I see positive signs in those areas next season and genuine steps forward I'll be pleased. But the Bills knew they were not drafting a finished product when they drafted EJ. Even if he had played a full 16 game season I don't believe that the Bills would have been saying "ok this is what he is he isn't going to get better...." I think they believe there will be improvement and development in year 2.

[Kirby Jackson]

 

 

I like then way he has played late in games, when we have had a chance late in games he has been in he has given us the chance to win. I also like the way he went from one of his worst performances the first time we played Jets to one of his best if not his best the second time. Thirdly I like his calmness. I know there are plenty on here who think leadership is about going around screaming in people's faces when things go wrong. I don't believe that. Leadership is about control. You are not in control when you are screaming in people's faces. Even in the games where he played poorly he remained calm, that will serve him well going forward.

 

Make no mistake, he has to get better. Take out the Tampa game and he generally avoided the big mistakes, but he has to show that he is willing to risk the mistake in order to scoop the big reward and then be able to execute under that pressure. His footwork has to improve, his intermediate range throws into tight spots has to improve (would be helped by better pass receivers as well) and he has to start games better. If I see positive signs in those areas next season and genuine steps forward I'll be pleased. But the Bills knew they were not drafting a finished product when they drafted EJ. Even if he had played a full 16 game season I don't believe that the Bills would have been saying "ok this is what he is he isn't going to get better...." I think they believe there will be improvement and development in year 2.

Fair enough and thanks for the honest assessment.

[RuntheDamnBall]

You know what happened once?

 

The Bills committed to JP Losman.

Then the Bills committed to Trent Edwards.

Then the Bills committed to Ryan Fitzpatrick.

Then the Bills committed to EJ Manuel.

 

What have these commitments gotten the team? Yet, you want to wait through another commitment, after all, it is only one year. One year tacked on each previous year until you have the Bills recent history.

 

But, we should be patient. Can't bring in competition for EJ because it may stunt his growth. Meanwhile, bring in competition at every other position on the field.

Could we see some links to validate this, something I view as a straw-man argument?

 

I think a #1 pick in all but a few unlikely scenarios would be wasted on a QB. It doesn't mean I think no competition should be brought in. It means that I and those who agree with me think it's not the best use of resources to put a winning team on the field.

 

I also think most people here would be glad to see us take a chance on a guy who falls to the 2nd or 3rd but has upside. I'd personally like to take a flyer on Murray, who I think has pro talent but has obviously hit a giant bump in his prospects for the year.

 

I like then way he has played late in games, when we have had a chance late in games he has been in he has given us the chance to win. I also like the way he went from one of his worst performances the first time we played Jets to one of his best if not his best the second time. Thirdly I like his calmness. I know there are plenty on here who think leadership is about going around screaming in people's faces when things go wrong. I don't believe that. Leadership is about control. You are not in control when you are screaming in people's faces. Even in the games where he played poorly he remained calm, that will serve him well going forward.

 

Make no mistake, he has to get better. Take out the Tampa game and he generally avoided the big mistakes, but he has to show that he is willing to risk the mistake in order to scoop the big reward and then be able to execute under that pressure. His footwork has to improve, his intermediate range throws into tight spots has to improve (would be helped by better pass receivers as well) and he has to start games better. If I see positive signs in those areas next season and genuine steps forward I'll be pleased. But the Bills knew they were not drafting a finished product when they drafted EJ. Even if he had played a full 16 game season I don't believe that the Bills would have been saying "ok this is what he is he isn't going to get better...." I think they believe there will be improvement and development in year 2.

My sentiments exactly. Well put.