QB Bills Posted February 20, 2014 Posted February 20, 2014 Fair enough...and I should have been clearer in my statement in that when I said, "I would put that savings toward Decker", I meant that in essence would only cost the BILLS an additional $3-$4 mill per year and a younger player, taller, better route runner, and more productive...now, that said, I wouldn't expect Decker to be a guy that had such production, but would merely replace SJ at a better price point when considering production and I, for my preference, would ALSO (not yelling, just indicating an important point) Draft a tall outside WR with decent speed and hands in the 2nd Round preferrably, but would wait until the 3rd if the WR position looked like it wasn't being torn to shreds during the Draft...so in my perspective for an "extra" $3-$4 million you would have a younger, highly productive, tall, fast and good pass catching WR to take over SJ's spot, Woods on the outside with Goodwin being a slot guy along with a fly route type of weapon to take the top off the Offense and then a Rookie WR on the outside that matches the physical prototype you're looking for...and let's face it, injuries happen and having depth at that position only helps the BILLS, competition is a good thing. You're absolutely right about Manning making other WRs look good, but Decker wouldn't have to be "the answer" in Buffalo, he would just need to be productive because with a strong running game a set of other WRs that could also be real threats, Decker comes into a similar situation as he's in IF the BILLS Draft right / well this year.... We disagree, that's cool...I respect everyone's opinion as long as they're respectful and reasonably intelligent with a cogent argument to their credit.....but IMO, Decker is head and shoulders a better WR than SJ....SJ has good movement off the line and getting of the jamb is one of his strengths. Speed not so much, strong and steady hands not so much, some attitude concerns on the field, and sometimes an attitude issue off the field are all of his detractions....one person pointed to TJ trying to run down the KC INT for 100 yards while SJ threw up his hands in frustration, and yes, that epitomizes my issue with SJ. Has SJ gotten better at not being an on-the-field issue with his stupid penalties? Yes....has he been less abrasive in his off-the-field comments? Yes...he's matured a bit and that's to his credit as well...but sometimes, as fans it's not so easy to just "let bygones be bygones" and forget all the past issues and so they pile up like a sum total and at end of the day, some of us just reach that point when we say, "I'm done with this guy"...that's me with SJ....is it fair? I don't know....is it logical? probably not...but right now, if I had a choice between Decker or SJ and it cost me $3-$4 million more for Decker, I'd take Decker and not look back and believe the team is all the better for it Having said all of that, in various posts in different threads I've stated I'm fully against over-paying for certain positions and WR is actually one of them...so, if SJ is traded or released (that's defeinitely not happening) I am also "ok" with spending the money SJ release / trade saves the BILLS on Offensive / Defensive Line or stud LB....because as previous Super Bowl teams have shown, WRs are a dime-a-dozen when the rest of the team is playing well.....see the most recent Super Bowl as an example... I hear you, but I think as fans of a team, we sometimes have an inflated or deflated sense of a player's worth. Perhaps I'm overrating Stevie in the same way I believe you are underrating him, as I'm a huge fan of his and I actually love his personality. I also think he's an excellent player. The problem is that, like I've stated earlier, his best attributes are not easily quantifiable. He's not exceptionally tall, strong, or fast. But his ability to create separation and get open is among the best in the league and unless a player is a total mismatch (which you can say for maybe 4 or 5 players in the league), that is the top attribute to have for a receiver, in my opinion. People point out him throwing up his hands after that pass by Tuel, but fail to point out him running after the Colts DB and stripping him of the ball and recovering it late in the 4th quarter last year after yet another horrible Fitz pick. That doesn't fit the narrative of him coming up small in big moments, so its conveniently glossed over. At the end of the day, a WR can't throw the ball to himself. His production is dependent on the QB and scheme. I don't think you'll find many people who would say Larry Fitzgerald isn't an elite receiver. But look at his stats over the last five years. He's had one year of 1400+ but the rest of the time, he's been just above or below 1000. And then look at his stats when Kurt Warner was his QB. If you put Stevie Johnson on that Denver team in 2012 when Peyton Manning gets there, and Eric Decker was here, we're not having this conversation.
C.Biscuit97 Posted February 20, 2014 Posted February 20, 2014 Obviously without Stevie. -For me, anyway. Seriously, why draft a stud #1WR prospect if your'e gonna hang onto the penalty-magnet/gaffe-master/attention whore distraction-guy? I'd off-load Stevie while there's folks like you he may still have some value to. Not for nothing, but I REALLY liked what I saw from Woods and Goodwin last season. Looked to me like something to build on... Damn shame when you have more faith in your rookie's leadership skills than a six-year veteran's. Robert Woods? You mean the guy who got kicked out of a game for punching a guy with a helmet on? If SJ did that, you would destroy him. This thread is laughable yet typical. SJ has been emotion at times but no more than some fans. See him against NO this year, catching everything. What did he do yo show up his team this year? Play a day after his mother died without telling anyone but the coach? What a selfish me first guy!!!
26CornerBlitz Posted February 20, 2014 Posted February 20, 2014 @JohnMurphyShow Marrone excited about welcoming Stevie back http://wp.me/plmrg-9Hg
reddogblitz Posted February 20, 2014 Posted February 20, 2014 @JohnMurphyShow Marrone excited about welcoming Stevie back http://wp.me/plmrg-9Hg Interesting. After being 20 ft away from SJ on the sidelines when he dropped the 4th Q 3rd down drive killer pass on opening day resulting in a thrown visor, and the infamous you know what vs Falcons in Canada, I was thinking maybe Coach Marrone wouldn't want to put his coaching career in SJ's hands. Sounds like from this anyway, he may be prepared to do just that. But it's early.
C.Biscuit97 Posted February 20, 2014 Posted February 20, 2014 @JohnMurphyShow Marrone excited about welcoming Stevie back http://wp.me/plmrg-9Hg I know it's a business but I would imagine that it would be hard to cut a guy after what him & SJ shared the day his mother died.
thebandit27 Posted February 20, 2014 Posted February 20, 2014 Interesting. After being 20 ft away from SJ on the sidelines when he dropped the 4th Q 3rd down drive killer pass on opening day resulting in a thrown visor, and the infamous you know what vs Falcons in Canada, I was thinking maybe Coach Marrone wouldn't want to put his coaching career in SJ's hands. Sounds like from this anyway, he may be prepared to do just that. But it's early. Come on...his career is far more closely tied to EJ Manuel than it is to Stevie
3rdand12 Posted February 21, 2014 Posted February 21, 2014 This might be yet another factor in why Stevie was not the player he was with Fitzpatrick. This is a quote from 1Billsfan that got me thinking of the move another way. " In 2013, TJ Graham played in Stevie's #1 WR slot this year with Stevie being moved to the slot receiver position and Woods playing in the #2 receiver position. "?Insulted maybe ?
bocheu Posted February 21, 2014 Posted February 21, 2014 This might be yet another factor in why Stevie was not the player he was with Fitzpatrick. This is a quote from 1Billsfan that got me thinking of the move another way. " In 2013, TJ Graham played in Stevie's #1 WR slot this year with Stevie being moved to the slot receiver position and Woods playing in the #2 receiver position. "?Insulted maybe ? you can say whatever you want to create controversy. but here is what Stevie said: "To me, the slot means you got access to go left, you got access to go right, you can work up the middle, you're not going to be pressed as much -- and we all know what I can do to people that press me," he said. "You'll be going against either the safeties or linebackers or the third cornerback. That's what I think about when I hear slot. It seems like easy money for me." For Johnson, who is regarded by some as one of the best in the NFL at making moves to get open off the line of scrimmage, he put any talk of a potential move inside being a step down for him to rest on Friday. "I'm with whatever move they say. I don't feel bad about it at all. I have confidence in my coaches. I believe in them. They gave me the shot. Wherever they see me fit is cool with me," he said. "If I'm in the slot, the things I've done on the outside I'm pretty much limited. I'm on one side of the field. With the slot, I can motion over to the left or the right. I got more options or whatnot. I guess we'll have to see how it works out come training camp and then preseason. But whatever it is, I'm with it." Stevie isn't really a high maintenance dude-- or really a diva. He just had some overzealous TD celebrations-- but don't assign BS to his character that isn't there.
3rdand12 Posted February 21, 2014 Posted February 21, 2014 (edited) My intent was not to make a controversy. And i apologize that sounded so. I'm a fan of Stevie. I think i wanted to say. That during the season he lost some enthusiasm. Whether injuries , QB situation wouldn't settle in , or he was frustrated with his routes when lined up in the slot. . Thats all i meant. This year Stevie did not look anything like two years ago . or last year even . And i have said clearly , i hoped , that we should NOT trade him , much less cut him. Upgrade him. always. Love that foolio stevie Edited February 21, 2014 by 3rdand12
purple haze Posted February 21, 2014 Posted February 21, 2014 (edited) Why is it that every player that is worth a damn on the Bills is fodder for this type of "Should we trade such and such" sort of thread? Do other teams fans go through this type of ritual or is this a special kind of madness only Bills fans have. Nope. Go to other message boards. Over-emotional fans abound everywhere. They have no one better to replace SJ with. And if EJ doesn’t improve greatly AND stay healthy in order to develop chemistry, just like this season, NO WR the Bills have will produce consistently. Lets trade all of the bums. But wait, the Bills should be able to get something good in return even though SJ sucks, right? Yeah, right. Dude’s grandmother passes away around training camp. He gets hurt. Misses a couple weeks of camp. EJ gets hurt and misses the rest of camp just as SJ returns. SJ game winning catch against Carolina. EJ misses how many games from October to November? Stevie playing hurt. No real chemistry with Thad or EJ. Bad mistake against Falcons, no doubt. SJ’s mother passes away. The three previous seasons with less injury and a more stable QB situation 1000 yards per season, several TD’s and 100 yard games. I could see if Woods, Graham or Goodwin had great seasons, but they, like Stevie made plays here and there, but not consistently. WR isn’t the issue. If Watkins is there at 9 take him and run because he’s too elite athletically to pass up. But better QB play will lead to a rebound for SJ and a true breakout for the other WR’s. Edited February 21, 2014 by purple haze
Maury Ballstein Posted February 21, 2014 Posted February 21, 2014 (edited) Guess SJ "haters" have another few years to hate. Here is Doug's take. “I’ve been communicating with Stevie about something to that effect,” Marrone said, via Tim Graham of the Buffalo News. “We had a great conversation. I told Stevie, ‘Hey, listen. I’m excited about getting started with you. I’m excited about you coming in and getting healthy and get this team going … and whatever else you’re hearing, it’s not coming from me.’” Edited February 21, 2014 by Ryan L Billz
#34fan Posted February 23, 2014 Posted February 23, 2014 (edited) Guess SJ "haters" have another few years to hate. Here is Doug's take. "I've been communicating with Stevie about something to that effect," Marrone said, via Tim Graham of the Buffalo News. "We had a great conversation. I told Stevie, 'Hey, listen. I'm excited about getting started with you. I'm excited about you coming in and getting healthy and get this team going … and whatever else you're hearing, it's not coming from me.'" What Doug Marrone, and many of the OP's here don't realize is that Johnson's tendencies haven't gone unnoticed by the rest of the league. He's a marked man. The people that get paid to throw flags will be watching his every move. As will defenders who are aware of his epic gaffes. I realize that might not seem like a big deal, but it could translate to a ref taking a closer look at a celebration dance, or a corner taking wild swipe at a ball be catches, (IF he catches it.) -All little things that could shift momentum, or perhaps cost us a close game. -It's hypothetical until you consider the fact that it's happened before. Also consider the effect this could have on a locker room of talented, rookies... This is a team trying desperately to break a cycle of failure. IMO, you don't do that by hanging onto seventh rounders who refuse to fall in line. Despite many ideas to the contrary, I'm a firm believer in life after Stevie. If he were to go, I think we'd be fine. -Perhaps even improved. Edited February 23, 2014 by #34fan
Thurmal34 Posted February 23, 2014 Posted February 23, 2014 Didn't he own Kyle Wilson in that penalty off down in NJ this year? He drew flag after flag, no?
BADOLBILZ Posted February 23, 2014 Posted February 23, 2014 My intent was not to make a controversy. And i apologize that sounded so. I'm a fan of Stevie. I think i wanted to say. That during the season he lost some enthusiasm. Whether injuries , QB situation wouldn't settle in , or he was frustrated with his routes when lined up in the slot. . Thats all i meant. This year Stevie did not look anything like two years ago . or last year even . And i have said clearly , i hoped , that we should NOT trade him , much less cut him. Upgrade him. always. Love that foolio stevie Stevie Johnson has a lot of talent but the things you are talking about are maturity issues and not excusable from a veteran. I am a detractor of his because I think he is reflective of a lower standard of acceptable preparation and behavior that was allowed during the Jauron/Gailey eras. I think a change of scenery would be very good for HIM.......but it's also the easy way out and the Bills shouldn't be obligated to provide him with an impetus for change. He signed a big contract, he needs to sack-up and become the player that he would be expected to be if he played in a demanding environment like NE or SF. The gimping around all season with soft tissue injuries is getting really old. It is both a built-in excuse for failure and a look-at-me situation when he makes the plays he is SUPPOSED to be making. In reality, it's something that should have been cleared up years ago with proper diet, training and stretching. Then he needs to develop some poise. He wants to be that guy who plays better when the heat is on.....but he's proven fragile under pressure......so the best way to avoid that pressure is for him to not get too high or too low in given circumstances. The theatrics that endear him to a lot of fans.......fans who want the Bills to embarrass or humiliate opponents to help them feel better about the years of embarrassment/humiliation heaped on them by opponents of the Bills.......only serve to put the focus on him and he just can't handle the pressure that comes along with it. Both on the field, where he makes a critical mistake......or after the game when he acts like a complete mental patient and shows zero personal accountability. He just needs to start acting like what he is........a professional posession receiver........and a potentially excellent one at that......and stop worrying about being SJ13 the personality because he wouldn't make eats on youtube being that guy.
3rdand12 Posted February 23, 2014 Posted February 23, 2014 BADOL. you see this for what it is i think . Better than I. But until we have something better ... Also i bet Bills are focused on getting him sorted out this offseason. really see if they (Moore) can extract the most from Johnson. He has potential usefulness . But if he wont walk the walk i dont expect him to do well under Marrone. Or stay much longer. Still its conjecture for now
Maury Ballstein Posted February 23, 2014 Posted February 23, 2014 23 tds 2010-12. Let's get another 10 Td season and get that Stevie statue commissioned.
Fixxxer Posted February 23, 2014 Posted February 23, 2014 I just hope SJ doesn't read Bills message boards.
Kevin Posted February 24, 2014 Posted February 24, 2014 I just hope SJ doesn't read Bills message boards. I hope none of the players read this board. Well, except for Jason Peters and Whitner.
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