LB3 Posted February 16, 2014 Posted February 16, 2014 (edited) What does that have to do with the decision to keep or cut him today? Just a hypothetical question based on your contention that it can't be denied that his production does not merit his salary. He's played two years under his current deal, one of which he had right around the numbers I gave you. This past year, he had a down year WRT production. If he had the numbers I gave you this upcoming season, would his production merit his salary in your mind? I guess what I'm asking is do you believe that his one bad year is the rule, rather than the exception. Extrapolating, should we cut every player who had a down year where they didn't earn their salary? I'm asking on a production level only, injuries concerns being taken out of the equation. FTR, I agree that his nagging injuries are concerning, though this was the first year he's actually missed games due to them. Edited February 16, 2014 by KikoSeeBallKikoGetBall
4merper4mer Posted February 16, 2014 Posted February 16, 2014 I wouldn't think the Bills would get rid of one of their best players, but then again it is seemingly more important that Greggo Marrone is surrounded by yes men.
Sumin Posted February 16, 2014 Posted February 16, 2014 86 is David Nelson, could be reflecting on David leaving the Bills Stevie also could be taking a break from football due to the recent death of his mother. I love how everyone immediately assumes this means Stevie is getting cut or released. It's possible, but he is our best receiver and we have a bunch of unknowns after him. Doug Whaley had already stated that Stevie will be back next year. He could have changed stances, but I doubt it. And if Marrone can't handle Stevie's benign antics then he doesn't deserve to be a coach, period. Completely asinine to release Stevie and I would probably no longer be a fan of the bills if they do so.
4merper4mer Posted February 16, 2014 Posted February 16, 2014 86 is David Nelson, could be reflecting on David leaving the Bills Stevie also could be taking a break from football due to the recent death of his mother. I love how everyone immediately assumes this means Stevie is getting cut or released. It's possible, but he is our best receiver and we have a bunch of unknowns after him. Doug Whaley had already stated that Stevie will be back next year. He could have changed stances, but I doubt it. And if Marrone can't handle Stevie's benign antics then he doesn't deserve to be a coach, period. Completely asinine to release Stevie and I would probably no longer be a fan of the bills if they do so. This; but he can't. He can handle crappy special teams coaches, 9 year old offensive coordinators and the "obvious" things. That's about it.
billsfan1959 Posted February 16, 2014 Posted February 16, 2014 (edited) So if he were to post 75 rec, 1000 yards and 6 tds this upcoming season, would his production merit his salary? What does that have to do with the decision to keep or cut him today? As it is today it does not make sense for the team to keep him at his current salary when he has been hurt as much as he has and the team can get the same production from a younger cheaper player It has a lot to do with the decision to keep or cut him. From 2010 - 2012, SJ averaged over 1000 yards and 8 TDs per season. Those are productive numbers by anyone's standard, particularly given they were achieved on a team with, shall we say, real limitations in the passing game. Last year he was injured part of the year, his mother died - and he missed four games because of both of those reasons and played a number of others hampered by both. Add in a new coaching staff, a new offensive system, the QB situation, an offensive line that regressed, etc., etc., and it should not be surprising his drop in numbers. As I have stated before, I do not believe he is a true #1 receiver; however, he certainly is a very talented receiver. Anyone with any football sense would look at what SJ would bring to the team next year in any decision to keep him or not - and, in doing so, would probably not be so short sighted to use last year, as opposed to a body of work over the three previous years, as a base line for what he could bring and whether that is commensurate with his salary. Edited February 16, 2014 by billsfan1959
Max997 Posted February 16, 2014 Posted February 16, 2014 Extrapolating, should we cut every player who had a down year where they didn't earn their salary? I'm asking on a production level only, injuries concerns being taken out of the equation. FTR, I agree that his nagging injuries are concerning, though this was the first year he's actually missed games due to them. If it makes sense and you think you can get the same production out of a cheaper and possibly younger player then yes. This is basic team management Make no mistake I like Stevie but from a football standpoint it doesn't make sense to keep him at his current number
LB3 Posted February 16, 2014 Posted February 16, 2014 If it makes sense and you think you can get the same production out of a cheaper and possibly younger player then yes. This is basic team management Make no mistake I like Stevie but from a football standpoint it doesn't make sense to keep him at his current number Fair enough
Peter Posted February 16, 2014 Posted February 16, 2014 (edited) For the life of me I don't see the logic in getting rid of Stevie...But sometimes I feel like I'm in the minority...Which does surprise me a bit... Oh well... I should add though that Stevie has had his fair share of injuries...Some (the groin) seem to be a bit chronic...So maybe there is some logic in it due to his salary...I'd just hate to see him go...I really like the guy... Cutting him makes absolutely no sense to me either. Edited February 16, 2014 by Peter
JM57 Posted February 16, 2014 Posted February 16, 2014 It amazes me how many people don't get this No team is going to keep paying a player just bc there wouldn't be a big cap savings if they cut him Except they actually really ARE close to the cap this year because of all the dead money already from cutting Fitz, Anderson, Lindell, etc. They're under $20 million of space IIRC and have holes to fill and free agents to re-sign.
boyst Posted February 17, 2014 Posted February 17, 2014 Lets set some facts up in hurr: 1) He is not injury prone. He has missed 3 games in the last few seasons, IIRC. Or, at the very least missed very few starts. He has got injured and missed some snaps, and not finished games but to call him injury prone is to forget that Amendola, Harvin and Welker play in this league, too. 2) Good teams, bad teams, any team does not release their best talent even if they have up and comers. Does it make any sense to go in before the draft hoping to land Watkins/other or to try to land some FA when the only backup plan is more TJ Graham? 3) Trading him could be a possibility but that option does not begin until the leagues new year. Johnson would likely not be talking about what could happen in a month.
Hazed and Amuzed Posted February 17, 2014 Posted February 17, 2014 Lets set some facts up in hurr: 1) He is not injury prone. He has missed 3 games in the last few seasons, IIRC. Or, at the very least missed very few starts. He has got injured and missed some snaps, and not finished games but to call him injury prone is to forget that Amendola, Harvin and Welker play in this league, too. 2) Good teams, bad teams, any team does not release their best talent even if they have up and comers. Does it make any sense to go in before the draft hoping to land Watkins/other or to try to land some FA when the only backup plan is more TJ Graham? 3) Trading him could be a possibility but that option does not begin until the leagues new year. Johnson would likely not be talking about what could happen in a month. Listen. Please don't get facts or rational opinions get in the way of a Bills fans right to run players out of town, it's both disrespectful to Andy Levitre and it affects people's confidence levels.
boyst Posted February 17, 2014 Posted February 17, 2014 Listen. Please don't get facts or rational opinions get in the way of a Bills fans right to run players out of town, it's both disrespectful to Andy Levitre and it affects people's confidence levels. Just stopping by to say "hello, too!"
Kemp Posted February 17, 2014 Posted February 17, 2014 86 is David Nelson, could be reflecting on David leaving the Bills Stevie also could be taking a break from football due to the recent death of his mother. I love how everyone immediately assumes this means Stevie is getting cut or released. It's possible, but he is our best receiver and we have a bunch of unknowns after him. Doug Whaley had already stated that Stevie will be back next year. He could have changed stances, but I doubt it. And if Marrone can't handle Stevie's benign antics then he doesn't deserve to be a coach, period. Completely asinine to release Stevie and I would probably no longer be a fan of the bills if they do so. I always laugh when fans say they will no longer be a fan if this or that happens. You will still be a fan or you were never a fan. That is the way it works.
jr1 Posted February 17, 2014 Posted February 17, 2014 I long for the days before "cryptic" social media posts
klos63 Posted February 17, 2014 Posted February 17, 2014 Another question is , who do we replace him with. Even in an off year it's a significant number of catches to replace. I remember some GM years ago saying, you don't get rid of players, you replace players.
T master Posted February 17, 2014 Posted February 17, 2014 If he is gone the front office would be pegged as no change bunch of sum asses because he is due 8 mil this year so that would be dead money if they let him go . Now if they could trade him along with his contract that would a possibility !! Another question is , who do we replace him with. Even in an off year it's a significant number of catches to replace. I remember some GM years ago saying, you don't get rid of players, you replace players. If you could trade him with his contract & pick up Anquan Boldin that would be a great move !!
CardinalScotts Posted February 17, 2014 Posted February 17, 2014 I wouldn't think the Bills would get rid of one of their best players, but then again it is seemingly more important that Greggo Marrone is surrounded by yes men. yes men ? like who ?
auburnbillsbacker Posted February 17, 2014 Posted February 17, 2014 If cut, not traded. The contract goes with him in a trade. Not any bonuses he received. They would have been spread over the life of the contract, but if he is traded the bills have to take a cap hit all at once.
KGUNBILLS Posted February 17, 2014 Posted February 17, 2014 This would be some bad news. What could be worse is that NE seems to be openly shopping for a WR.
Tipster19 Posted February 17, 2014 Posted February 17, 2014 If his contract goes with him and clears our books then trade him to Cleveland for their 4th rd pick.
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