C.Biscuit97 Posted February 17, 2014 Posted February 17, 2014 (edited) Mike Williams. DJ Fluker was drafted #11 and I credit him in a big way for getting his team to the playoffs. I think that with the new CBA we might be seeing more of this. Draft picks are just not that expensive any more. He had a part. Also, they drafted the runner up rookie of the year. A receiver. Also, Gates was finally healthy. I'm sure Flunker played a part but there were a lot of factors. Personally, I think Allen played a big part. Ohhh a warning from the police....] What some of you don't realize is every player has some skeletons in their closest from their college days. We will hear it all at the combine this week, and if he has serious red flags that we don't know about yet then he won't even get drafted in the first round of the draft. My take is Kiper knows all there is to know about the kid, and still grades him as a top 10 pick. Mel Kiper who still says Glenn is a guard. Also as much as people want to knock the Dockery-Walker olines, we set a franchise record for fewest sacks allowed starting a rookie QB. Edited February 17, 2014 by C.Biscuit97
billsfan1959 Posted February 17, 2014 Posted February 17, 2014 (edited) I would not be upset if the Bills took a tackle in the first round; however, my preference would be that they upgrade the offensive line (particulalry left guard) through free agency and find some good prospects (with long term solution potential) for the O-line in rounds 2-3. I believe perennial championship caliber teams are built around strong offensive and defensive lines. With that said, we have a very good left tackle in Glenn. So, I go back and forth on this. I don't know as if going for a right tackle (or even left tackle and moving Glenn) with the #9 pick is good value for the team; although part of me thinks that two very good tackles complemented by free agency upgades at guard would do wonders for this offense. Another part of me thinks that the #9 pick should go toward the best player available at a position of need. Right now I think those top needs in terms of one player potentially providing a real upgrade are (in no particular order) O-line, a true #1 receiver or stud tight end, and inside LB. If they do not trade back (which I also think could result in good value for the team) and acquire another pick, then I will be happy with the best player available at one of those positions. Edited February 17, 2014 by billsfan1959
thewildrabbit Posted February 17, 2014 Posted February 17, 2014 He had a part. Also, they drafted the runner up rookie of the year. A receiver. Also, Gates was finally healthy. I'm sure Flunker played a part but there were a lot of factors. Personally, I think Allen played a big part. Mel Kiper who still says Glenn is a guard. Also as much as people want to knock the Dockery-Walker olines, we set a franchise record for fewest sacks allowed starting a rookie QB. Fluker had a huge part as he played every down on offense, and that O line allowed 19 fewer sacks. That is a LOT of sacks!! Why nitpick over one statement? The thing is we still don't know how Glenn will grade with a good LG next to him. With the weak link gone, he could become the focal point of the pass rush, and then we will see how he stands up. He wasn't all that great at run blocking as tackle either. Finally, even Mike Mayock stated that while Glenn is a good tackle, that he would be an even better guard. Perhaps an all pro right away because his skill set is more suited to guard. So it wasn't just Kiper tooting that horn. READ THIS: "I have him as a solid second-round right tackle. However, if he can’t survive at right tackle, I think he’s got the size, girth and demeanor to be a potential All-Pro guard.” http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/eagles/Mayock-breaks-down-tackle-draft-options.html As good as Glenn has played at LT, I wouldn't be surprised should one of the top 3 elite OT's fall to Buffalo that the Bills move Glenn to RT or even LG depending on who they draft and when. What most fans simply refuse to comprehend is that despite the fact that the Bills were the #2 team in the NFL in rushing, and #1 in attempts. That they graded very poorly in actual run blocking!! Particularly bad on outside runs as the Bills ran up the middle 71% of the time. I've been saying as much for weeks in many threads. http://blogs.buffalobills.com/2014/02/14/football-outsiders-peg-ot-as-top-bills-need/
Kirby Jackson Posted February 17, 2014 Posted February 17, 2014 Fluker had a huge part as he played every down on offense, and that O line allowed 19 fewer sacks. That is a LOT of sacks!! Why nitpick over one statement? The thing is we still don't know how Glenn will grade with a good LG next to him. With the weak link gone, he could become the focal point of the pass rush, and then we will see how he stands up. He wasn't all that great at run blocking as tackle either. Finally, even Mike Mayock stated that while Glenn is a good tackle, that he would be an even better guard. Perhaps an all pro right away because his skill set is more suited to guard. So it wasn't just Kiper tooting that horn. READ THIS: "I have him as a solid second-round right tackle. However, if he can’t survive at right tackle, I think he’s got the size, girth and demeanor to be a potential All-Pro guard.” http://www.philly.co...ft-options.html As good as Glenn has played at LT, I wouldn't be surprised should one of the top 3 elite OT's fall to Buffalo that the Bills move Glenn to RT or even LG depending on who they draft and when. What most fans simply refuse to comprehend is that despite the fact that the Bills were the #2 team in the NFL in rushing, and #1 in attempts. That they graded very poorly in actual run blocking!! Particularly bad on outside runs as the Bills ran up the middle 71% of the time. I've been saying as much for weeks in many threads. http://blogs.buffalo...top-bills-need/ I don't understand why we are going back to comments on Glenn from before he was drafted? Last week he was named one of the 2 best tackles 25 and under by nfl.com. His PFF scores and the naked eye should tell you that he is a very good LT with potential to be elite. Do you really think that the Bills will be looking to move that guy out of the toughest position on the line to fill? Of course not!! We get it that you want a tackle at 9 but if they do go that route it will be 100% with the intention of playing him on the right side. As I stated earlier there is not 1 tackle in the NFL currently that was drafted as early as the Bills are picking with the intention of not playing the blindside. I just do not see the Bills targeting a RT higher than any of the other 31 teams have. I could see tackle on a trade down but not at 9.
thewildrabbit Posted February 17, 2014 Posted February 17, 2014 I don't understand why we are going back to comments on Glenn from before he was drafted? Last week he was named one of the 2 best tackles 25 and under by nfl.com. His PFF scores and the naked eye should tell you that he is a very good LT with potential to be elite. Do you really think that the Bills will be looking to move that guy out of the toughest position on the line to fill? Of course not!! We get it that you want a tackle at 9 but if they do go that route it will be 100% with the intention of playing him on the right side. As I stated earlier there is not 1 tackle in the NFL currently that was drafted as early as the Bills are picking with the intention of not playing the blindside. I just do not see the Bills targeting a RT higher than any of the other 31 teams have. I could see tackle on a trade down but not at 9. Because someone else started this by making the comment that Kiper graded Glenn as an OG, understand now? I merely pointed out that Mike Mayock also thought he might be a better guard because of his massive size. Like I also pointed out, that while Glenn graded very well as a pass blocker, he wasn't that great as a run blocker! "Left tackle Cordy Glenn was a second-round pick in 2012 and his starting job should be safe, but he must play better. " http://blogs.buffalobills.com/2014/02/14/football-outsiders-peg-ot-as-top-bills-need/ Football outsiders seems to think RT is the Buffalo Bills biggest need, and Chris Brown stated he feels the same way in his article.
Kirby Jackson Posted February 17, 2014 Posted February 17, 2014 Because someone else started this by making the comment that Kiper graded Glenn as an OG, understand now? I merely pointed out that Mike Mayock also thought he might be a better guard because of his massive size. Like I also pointed out, that while Glenn graded very well as a pass blocker, he wasn't that great as a run blocker! "Left tackle Cordy Glenn was a second-round pick in 2012 and his starting job should be safe, but he must play better. " http://blogs.buffalobills.com/2014/02/14/football-outsiders-peg-ot-as-top-bills-need/ Football outsiders seems to think RT is the Buffalo Bills biggest need, and Chris Brown stated he feels the same way in his article. RT may very well be their biggest need (it is certainly one of them) but that doesn't mean that it gets addressed at 9. Mack and Tiny Richardson makes for a better team than Lewan and Shazier for example. Which of those 2 combinations do you think make the team better? That is really what we are talking about if they stay at 9.
TPS Posted February 17, 2014 Posted February 17, 2014 RT may very well be their biggest need (it is certainly one of them) but that doesn't mean that it gets addressed at 9. Mack and Tiny Richardson makes for a better team than Lewan and Shazier for example. Which of those 2 combinations do you think make the team better? That is really what we are talking about if they stay at 9. Which LB position is Mack projected for? Since I know he's not a MLB, would Kiko stay there in this scenario? Or would Mack replace Hughes? If it's a Mack for Hughes and tiny for Pears vs. Lewan for Pears and Skov for Moats (but moved to the middle), I'm not sure it's as easy to say which outcome is better?
1billsfan Posted February 17, 2014 Posted February 17, 2014 Yes, thank you for that As for that second sentance, that is just simply true, as Cam Newton had several more severe issues and was still drafted #1 overall. Getting kicked out of school for a run in with police over a stolen laptop, and he was also caught cheating on an exam, to name a few. Trust me when I said just about every player has some red flags, as young people tend to do stupid stuff. Lewan's issues are very minor compared to some. Never arrested, and charged with any crimes that I see. He had early anger issues while playing that he correct his senior year. Like I said, very minor. This is also my hope, and the Bills trade back and grab an OT, OG, TE with those first three picks. Cam Newton didn't threaten a girl with rape. Cam Newton didn't violently assault an innocent person. Cam Newton didn't try to decapitate an opposing player on the field. If that's your idea of "very minor" then you need help. The Bills aren't drafting Taylor Lewan. Wow, wouldn't that be some press conference for the Buffalo Bills if they ever did... "Taylor, why did you threaten to rape a girl?" "Taylor, why did you punch that guy in the face totally unprovoked?" "Taylor, do you think you'll have an immediate target on you by the refs as a dirty player since that video shows you trying to rip someone's head off?"
thewildrabbit Posted February 17, 2014 Posted February 17, 2014 RT may very well be their biggest need (it is certainly one of them) but that doesn't mean that it gets addressed at 9. Mack and Tiny Richardson makes for a better team than Lewan and Shazier for example. Which of those 2 combinations do you think make the team better? That is really what we are talking about if they stay at 9. I'm hoping they draft Greg Robinson - Jake Matthews - Taylor Lewan in the first with #9. Until I hear different from someone like Mike Mayock, Lewan still gets a top 10 grade. If all three are gone then trade back and take@ 15 or so, Eric Ebron - Cyrus Kouandjio- @ 20 or so Antonio Richardson- David Yankey- -Xavier Su'a-Filo later in the first while picking up an extra second like last year. In the second I like Cyril Richardson - A Seferian-Jenkins- Zack Martin- Kelvin Benjamin. I'd like to see the Bills go TE-OG-OT in any order with the first three picks, and if they trade back then add a WR-LBer to the mix.
thewildrabbit Posted February 17, 2014 Posted February 17, 2014 (edited) Cam Newton didn't threaten a girl with rape. Cam Newton didn't violently assault an innocent person. Cam Newton didn't try to decapitate an opposing player on the field. If that's your idea of "very minor" then you need help. The Bills aren't drafting Taylor Lewan. Wow, wouldn't that be some press conference for the Buffalo Bills if they ever did... "Taylor, why did you threaten to rape a girl?" "Taylor, why did you punch that guy in the face totally unprovoked?" "Taylor, do you think you'll have an immediate target on you by the refs as a dirty player since that video shows you trying to rip someone's head off?" I need help? You need to realize that there is a huge difference between someone allegedly saying they did something, and actually getting arrested for it or being forced to leave school. Newton was forced to leave Florida because he cheated on exams, not allegedly!! I happen to think you are way over blowing this, as most happened before his senior year. The "alleged" rape threaten was never proven as, "No criminal charges were ever filed by the campus police." This was in 2009, and people grow up and mature. From the alleged fight, "What he says: On the assault allegations, in an interview with the Arizona Republic, Lewan said, “I’m not going to get into too many details, I wasn’t in any fight. I didn’t hit anybody. I was really just trying to help out a situation and break up something. I can’t really go into any more details than that. I didn’t hit anybody or do anything like that. My focus is here. I’m sure the truth will come out and it’ll all work out.” No Charges filed on anything! As for the on the field play... "A couple of those facemask deals were on accident,"Lewis said in a November interview " ... A couple of those were very blatant and I apologize for that. Even from that post the risk evaluation is medium to low. Kiper wouldn't give the guy a top ten grade if it was that big a deal. Like I said, i'm waiting to hear from Mike Mayock and others at the combine. If he grades red flag then yea, not acceptable Edited February 17, 2014 by FeartheLosing
Kirby Jackson Posted February 17, 2014 Posted February 17, 2014 Which LB position is Mack projected for? Since I know he's not a MLB, would Kiko stay there in this scenario? Or would Mack replace Hughes? If it's a Mack for Hughes and tiny for Pears vs. Lewan for Pears and Skov for Moats (but moved to the middle), I'm not sure it's as easy to say which outcome is better? Fair enough, I have Hughes as a pass rushing DE in Schwartz's defense. He will be playing primarily on passing downs in my scenario with Mack playing outside and Kiko manning the middle. FWIW I like Skov a lot as well. Maybe some of my reservation is that outside of Robinson I think that it is a coin flip as to the rest of the tackles. I think that Matthews upside is limited and some others are a little boom or bust. If there are 6 that are roughly the same (or whatever) I would just assume pick the 6th of that group an not the 1st. It's all about value to me and I just don't see the tackle value outside of Robinson at 9. If LT was a need it would be a different story. I want 2 OL in rounds 2-4 (RT and LG). If they trade down its a different story potentially depending on who is on the board.
1billsfan Posted February 17, 2014 Posted February 17, 2014 I need help? You need to realize that there is a huge difference between someone allegedly saying they did something, and actually getting arrested for it or being forced to leave school. Newton was forced to leave Florida because he cheated on exams, not allegedly!! I happen to think you are way over blowing this, as most happened before his senior year. The "alleged" rape threaten was never proven as, "No criminal charges were ever filed by the campus police." This was in 2009, and people grow up and mature. From the alleged fight, "What he says: On the assault allegations, in an interview with the Arizona Republic, Lewan said, “I’m not going to get into too many details, I wasn’t in any fight. I didn’t hit anybody. I was really just trying to help out a situation and break up something. I can’t really go into any more details than that. I didn’t hit anybody or do anything like that. My focus is here. I’m sure the truth will come out and it’ll all work out.” No Charges filed on anything! As for the on the field play... "A couple of those facemask deals were on accident,"Lewis said in a November interview " ... A couple of those were very blatant and I apologize for that. Even from that post the risk evaluation is medium to low. Kiper wouldn't give the guy a top ten grade if it was that big a deal. Like I said, i'm waiting to hear from Mike Mayock and others at the combine. If he grades red flag then yea, not acceptable I don't need Mike Mayock to tell me that Taylor Lewan is a psycho. I read the reports of all the alleged instances and to me it screams of local police covering up the tracks of a walking piece of you-know-what so as not to muddy up the name of the grand ol' Michigan program. The Bills aren't drafting him.
thebandit27 Posted February 17, 2014 Posted February 17, 2014 I don't need Mike Mayock to tell me that Taylor Lewan is a psycho. I read the reports of all the alleged instances and to me it screams of local police covering up the tracks of a walking piece of you-know-what so as not to muddy up the name of the grand ol' Michigan program. The Bills aren't drafting him. I'm not a Lewan guy. I don't like the off-field implications, and I don't think he's an NFL LT. Here's a pretty balanced scouting report on him from SB Nation: http://www.sbnation.com/nfl-mock-draft/2014/2/10/5286916/taylor-lewan-scouting-report
papazoid Posted February 17, 2014 Posted February 17, 2014 I am still a big believer in having a good offensive line and with OT a big need for this team I would have no problem if Bills take a tackle at 9 I also think adding a legit number 1 receiver is a big need so wouldn't have a problem with Watkins either but I don't think he will be there or split the difference and go Tight End Eric Ebron
thewildrabbit Posted February 17, 2014 Posted February 17, 2014 (edited) I don't need Mike Mayock to tell me that Taylor Lewan is a psycho. I read the reports of all the alleged instances and to me it screams of local police covering up the tracks of a walking piece of you-know-what so as not to muddy up the name of the grand ol' Michigan program. The Bills aren't drafting him. Hey, you are certainly entitled to your opinion. I'm done conversing with you about Lewan, and I don't really care what you think of him. I'll go by what the experts say. Edited February 17, 2014 by FeartheLosing
C.Biscuit97 Posted February 17, 2014 Posted February 17, 2014 Hey, you are certainly entitled to your opinion. I'm done conversing with you about Lewan, and I don't really care what you think of him. I'll go by what the experts say. Just because they on tv, doesn't make them experts. That's why I can't stand how fans talk about reaches in the draft. They are going off boards made by guys who have never worked in a NFL front office. Honestly with the amount of access some fans have to college games, there is zero doubt there are more knowledge fans than the "experts."
Kirby Jackson Posted February 17, 2014 Posted February 17, 2014 Just because they on tv, doesn't make them experts. That's why I can't stand how fans talk about reaches in the draft. They are going off boards made by guys who have never worked in a NFL front office. Honestly with the amount of access some fans have to college games, there is zero doubt there are more knowledge fans than the "experts." Not to get off topic but that's why I like this board. The people on here have a WAY better pulse on the Bills than the national people.
thebandit27 Posted February 17, 2014 Posted February 17, 2014 Just because they on tv, doesn't make them experts. That's why I can't stand how fans talk about reaches in the draft. They are going off boards made by guys who have never worked in a NFL front office. Honestly with the amount of access some fans have to college games, there is zero doubt there are more knowledge fans than the "experts." That's what's nice about there being so many draft sites on the internet; you can find just about anyone to back up your opinion. Not to get off topic but that's why I like this board. The people on here have a WAY better pulse on the Bills than the national people. With regard to team needs; yes. With regard to the draft-eligible players and their NFL potential; not so much IMO.
thewildrabbit Posted February 17, 2014 Posted February 17, 2014 Just because they on tv, doesn't make them experts. That's why I can't stand how fans talk about reaches in the draft. They are going off boards made by guys who have never worked in a NFL front office. Honestly with the amount of access some fans have to college games, there is zero doubt there are more knowledge fans than the "experts." Mike Mayock was an NFL player, and currently is employed by the NFL, as an announcer and draft guru / analyst. He happens to be so good at the draft that many teams have wanted to hire him as a scout, chief scout, and other positions. He turned them all down to continue to work for the NFL. I highly doubt that there is a football fan on the planet that has more knowledge about each years draft class then Mike Mayock.
Kirby Jackson Posted February 17, 2014 Posted February 17, 2014 That's what's nice about there being so many draft sites on the internet; you can find just about anyone to back up your opinion. With regard to team needs; yes. With regard to the draft-eligible players and their NFL potential; not so much IMO. Sorry, I should have clarified. The people here have a better grasp of the Bills needs (not necessarily of the players most capable of filling those needs). With that being said at this time of year a lot of people on here are learning about the guards, RT, TE, LB and WR prospects in both free agency and the draft. We tend (at least I do) to focus on players that could end up on the Bills.
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