RK_BillsFan Posted February 15, 2014 Posted February 15, 2014 No, most fans cannot properly analyze line play and incorrectly believe that an offensive line can be graded in a vacuum. Our line is a lot better than what this thread is making them out to be. Our line is decent, but it certainly not amazing.
thewildrabbit Posted February 15, 2014 Posted February 15, 2014 (edited) If the blueprint is that you win from the secondary up (as Seattle did) and you wanted to emulate them you would need to draft the elite talent early. Seattle's RT is a 7th round pick. FWIW, I think that I have a pretty good grasp of the OL. How many teams have RT that are 1st round picks (exclude KC and Jax as they were drafted as LT)? Take it one step further and how many were picked in the top 9??? Lane Johnson (and there were thoughts that Peters was done). Anthony Davis was in that range as well as Fluker. I cannot think of anymore off the top of my head but you are the expert... Andre Smith was drafted to play LT but couldn't. Lane Johnson was drafted as a RT (IMO) but they had a left handed QB. If the Bills selected someone at 9 to be a RT I think that would be the highest selected tackle to not block the blindside in the NFL. Why? They clearly didn't!! The superior talent on that team in my view is on the sidelines in terms of coaching. We weren't discussing Seattle's O line, or offense, and I'm not an expert by any means. I'm just here trying to convince others that so much effort has been put into so many other positions, on the defense, on skill position players, and on supposed play makers that have gotten them nowhere. The one O linemen they have drafted in the first round is still there. Still the center pin of the line. Centers aren't supposed to be drafted in the first round either, according to most fans here. Want to discus an O line, then lets talk the 49ers. LT Joe Staley a 1st LG Mike Iupati a 1st RT Anthony Davis a 1st The biggest, and probably the sole reason I'm all for drafting an OT at #9 is because I have very little faith they will get super lucky enough to find another Cordy Glenn for the right side in later rounds like most here want. I have very little faith in the Bills scouts to find another diamond like Glenn. Particularly when the past history shows me they can't find a top O line player in later rounds. Then be saddled with more mediocre to below average players, and the team goes nowhere for another few years. cool debating with you KB because you don't morph into a tool, so I'll just keep trying to get you as passionate as I am about OT's..big uglies rule. No, most fans cannot properly analyze line play and incorrectly believe that an offensive line can be graded in a vacuum. Our line is a lot better than what this thread is making them out to be. In terms of what exactly? The argument here is already beyond the FACT that this team needs three new O linemen, as KB stated. What we are discussing is if its pertinent to draft an OT at #9. Edited February 15, 2014 by FeartheLosing
Astrobot Posted February 15, 2014 Posted February 15, 2014 Even though Bills could use Mosley, Trade Down with St. Louis, who is hot for Mosley. We get Ebron, Skov, Mewhort, and Gabe Jackson. Ej gets weapons Ebron and Martavis Bryant, and time to throw behind Glenn-Jackson-Wood-Urbik-Mewhort. 1 13 Buffalo Eric Ebron TE North Carolina 2 41 Buffalo Shayne Skov ILB Stanford 2 44 Buffalo Jack Mewhort OT Ohio State 3 73 Buffalo Gabe Jackson OG Mississippi or Anthony Steen OG Alabama 4 105 Buffalo Martavis Bryant WRF Clemson 5 137 Buffalo Kenny Ladler FS Vanderbilt 6 169 Buffalo Chaz Sutton DE43 South Carolina 7 201 Buffalo John Urschel OG Penn State
Kirby Jackson Posted February 15, 2014 Posted February 15, 2014 (edited) Why? They clearly didn't!! The superior talent on that team in my view is on the sidelines in terms of coaching. We weren't discussing Seattle's O line, or offense, and I'm not an expert by any means. I'm just here trying to convince others that so much effort has been put into so many other positions, on the defense, on skill position players, and on supposed play makers that have gotten them nowhere. The one O linemen they have drafted in the first round is still there. Still the center pin of the line. Centers aren't supposed to be drafted in the first round either, according to most fans here. Want to discus an O line, then lets talk the 49ers. LT Joe Staley a 1st LG Mike Iupati a 1st RT Anthony Davis a 1st The biggest, and probably the sole reason I'm all for drafting an OT at #9 is because I have very little faith they will get super lucky enough to find another Cordy Glenn for the right side in later rounds like most here want. I have very little faith in the Bills scouts to find another diamond like Glenn. Particularly when the past history shows me they can't find a top O line player in later rounds. Then be saddled with more mediocre to below average players, and the team goes nowhere for another few years. In terms of what exactly? The argument here is already beyond the FACT that this team needs three new O linemen, as KB stated. What we are discussing is if its pertinent to draft an OT at #9. You couldn't bank on getting Sherman or Chancellor type talents in the 5th. That takes great scouting and a lot of luck. If you believe that you win from the secondary up you would put resources there (even though Seattle didn't have to). The need of OL is certainly there. I have been thinking about it though and I cannot think of one team in the league that has drafted a tackle in the top 10 without planning on him playing the blindside. I do not see the Bills as the 1st. My thinking is that the reason that positions like guard, safety and RT go later in the 1st and beyond is b/c you have bigger needs if you are picking in the top 10. If you can get a guy that will give you 10+ sacks as a rookie it will help your record more than a RT, guard or safety. QB is the most obvious example. While the talent level of the Bills has risen in recent years they still have other needs. They still need a #1 WR, a TE, a LB and a guard. I think that the LB and WR can help the record more than the RT at 9. That's all. I am fine with OL in the 2nd and 3rd if the value is there. If the draft started something like Mack, Tiny Richardson and then Gabe Jackson I would be elated. This is realistic IMO. Edited February 15, 2014 by Kirby Jackson
Dennis in NC Posted February 15, 2014 Posted February 15, 2014 It depends what happens above us. I think Matthews and Richardson offer value at 9, more so than Ebron although I've admittedly not seen a lot of him. The directions I don't want us to go in at 9 are: I think you mean Robinson (Auburn OT). I think there is an OG later named Richardson. RT at #9 may be a stretch, but these (Matthews and Robinson) are guys who could play LT if Glenn had an injury. That is the value of a great RT at #9. I would prefer to go another way, Watkins or Mack if available. Don't know if Mosely is worth it at 9. Trade down would be great, given the depth of this draft.
KOKBILLS Posted February 15, 2014 Posted February 15, 2014 I think you mean Robinson (Auburn OT). I think there is an OG later named Richardson. RT at #9 may be a stretch, but these (Matthews and Robinson) are guys who could play LT if Glenn had an injury. That is the value of a great RT at #9. I would prefer to go another way, Watkins or Mack if available. Don't know if Mosely is worth it at 9. Trade down would be great, given the depth of this draft. Robinson (who more than likely won't be there at #9) is, IMHO, a much better prospect than Watkins or Mack...He certainly should be able to play LT in the NFL without an issue...I think all things considered, and again this is just my opinion, he's the best prospect in this Draft...And that includes Clowney or any of the QB's...Robinson has elite, All-Pro potential...
Bill from NYC Posted February 15, 2014 Posted February 15, 2014 (edited) I think you mean Robinson (Auburn OT). I think there is an OG later named Richardson. RT at #9 may be a stretch, but these (Matthews and Robinson) are guys who could play LT if Glenn had an injury. That is the value of a great RT at #9. I would prefer to go another way, Watkins or Mack if available. Don't know if Mosely is worth it at 9. Trade down would be great, given the depth of this draft. Good post Dennis. I am a Tide Fan and don't want Mosley at #9. As for the OTs, I prefer Robinson for the reason you cite above. He might play RT for a while, and he is listed as 15 pounds heavier than Matthews. I think he could last to #9 if there is a big run on QBs. Edited February 15, 2014 by Bill from NYC
d_wag Posted February 15, 2014 Posted February 15, 2014 Even though Bills could use Mosley, Trade Down with St. Louis, who is hot for Mosley. We get Ebron, Skov, Mewhort, and Gabe Jackson. Ej gets weapons Ebron and Martavis Bryant, and time to throw behind Glenn-Jackson-Wood-Urbik-Mewhort. 1 13 Buffalo Eric Ebron TE North Carolina 2 41 Buffalo Shayne Skov ILB Stanford 2 44 Buffalo Jack Mewhort OT Ohio State 3 73 Buffalo Gabe Jackson OG Mississippi or Anthony Steen OG Alabama 4 105 Buffalo Martavis Bryant WRF Clemson 5 137 Buffalo Kenny Ladler FS Vanderbilt 6 169 Buffalo Chaz Sutton DE43 South Carolina 7 201 Buffalo John Urschel OG Penn State Rams want Mosley? According to who? This sounds like pure speculation, not fact.
4BillsintheBurgh Posted February 15, 2014 Posted February 15, 2014 I think a top flight OT would help EJ's development more than any other position selected at #9 so I hope there is value there and we take one. I could live with Watkins or a defensive player but I would like to see an OT taken. It also gives us options down the road if Glenn proves difficult to sign or if Glenn is signed maybe we could trade the other OT much like the dream qb scenario everyone likes to reference if we pick another first rounder. At least we could get some playing time out of overloading the OT position. And for the record I'm fine with any of the three top OT's, I think Lewan is solid and his mental lapses will be curtailed once he gets to the NFL.
QCity Posted February 15, 2014 Posted February 15, 2014 The argument here is already beyond the FACT that this team needs three new O linemen. If I would have known that's the consensus I would have never posted in this terrible thread lol. What we are discussing is if its pertinent to draft an OT at #9. it's not (talking RT not LT). For the same reasons discussed last year on why we didn't draft Warmack. And for the same reasons why 2 years ago we didn't draft DeCastro. If you missed those reasons, I'll rehash them closer to the draft date. There will be an OL thread each week like this up until the draft and this one already has run its course for me.
TPS Posted February 15, 2014 Posted February 15, 2014 Even though Bills could use Mosley, Trade Down with St. Louis, who is hot for Mosley. We get Ebron, Skov, Mewhort, and Gabe Jackson. Ej gets weapons Ebron and Martavis Bryant, and time to throw behind Glenn-Jackson-Wood-Urbik-Mewhort. 1 13 Buffalo Eric Ebron TE North Carolina 2 41 Buffalo Shayne Skov ILB Stanford 2 44 Buffalo Jack Mewhort OT Ohio State 3 73 Buffalo Gabe Jackson OG Mississippi or Anthony Steen OG Alabama 4 105 Buffalo Martavis Bryant WRF Clemson 5 137 Buffalo Kenny Ladler FS Vanderbilt 6 169 Buffalo Chaz Sutton DE43 South Carolina 7 201 Buffalo John Urschel OG Penn State while I like and think this is a possible trade, the numbers suggest it's a 3rd, not a second
thewildrabbit Posted February 16, 2014 Posted February 16, 2014 If I would have known that's the consensus I would have never posted in this terrible thread lol. it's not (talking RT not LT). For the same reasons discussed last year on why we didn't draft Warmack. And for the same reasons why 2 years ago we didn't draft DeCastro. If you missed those reasons, I'll rehash them closer to the draft date. There will be an OL thread each week like this up until the draft and this one already has run its course for me. Yea well, those two would have probably made a better impact then Colin Brown, Sam Young, or Doug Legursky. Wanna know what the Bills missed out on with DeCastro : and for the same reasons the Bills were 6-10 again last year. Lions DT Ndamukong Suh didn't record any tackles, sacks or pressures in Sunday's Week 11 loss at Pittsburgh. Much of the credit goes to Steelers RG David DeCastro, who is emerging as one of the best interior linemen in football. http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/7412/david-decastro
RuntheDamnBall Posted February 16, 2014 Posted February 16, 2014 Off Topic or Offensive Tackle? I was thinking the same thing. The former, that's a certainty. The latter... 25% chance?
KOKBILLS Posted February 16, 2014 Posted February 16, 2014 Good post Dennis. I am a Tide Fan and don't want Mosley at #9. No worries I think... I would be shocked...I mean literally floored if the Bills went Defense in the 1st Round...
3rdand12 Posted February 16, 2014 Posted February 16, 2014 (edited) Yea well, those two would have probably made a better impact then Colin Brown, Sam Young, or Doug Legursky. Wanna know what the Bills missed out on with DeCastro : and for the same reasons the Bills were 6-10 again last year. Lions DT Ndamukong Suh didn't record any tackles, sacks or pressures in Sunday's Week 11 loss at Pittsburgh. Much of the credit goes to Steelers RG David DeCastro, who is emerging as one of the best interior linemen in football. http://www.rotoworld.../david-decastro Those were completely different circumstances that Q brings up . Bills are shoring up weaknesses . We have less of them than 3 years ago.We nearly HAD to get a QB last year . Now we need to let him be somewhat comfortable . Bills also need to be able to run the ball in any damn gap we want and not decide because our Tackle is getting blown off the ball or our guard whiffed the block . I miss Joe D but I dont care how we do it , improve the talent on that line If we are drafting a lineman early it should be RT. And a guy who is staying there. The left guard position can get fixed anyway Bills wanna do it . but if we dont draft the RT in the first i would be fine drafting the LG in the second The thing about drafting a RT this year at nine is you just fixed it for awhile. Those two guys are that good of a bet. Get er dun Buddy ! also , KOK i am leaning that way too. But BPA probably drives the Whaley board and if Mack is there you gotta take him. Edited February 16, 2014 by 3rdand12
KOKBILLS Posted February 16, 2014 Posted February 16, 2014 KOK i am leaning that way too. But BPA probably drives the Whaley board and if Mack is there you gotta take him. I think Mack goes to Minnesota at #8 assuming the top 3 QB's are gone (and they will be)...I think #8 is too high for Carr... But we'll see...it's awfully early still...Anything can happen...
3rdand12 Posted February 16, 2014 Posted February 16, 2014 I think Mack goes to Minnesota at #8 assuming the top 3 QB's are gone (and they will be)...I think #8 is too high for Carr... But we'll see...it's awfully early still...Anything can happen... It sure can : )
Nitro Posted February 16, 2014 Posted February 16, 2014 Offensive line was a below average in most games. Talent upgrade is a must. If you wait until the later rounds you will miss out on a chance to have solid bookend tackles. Skill players need a line that can sustain blocks for the run an pass block. Ignore the line at the Bills peril. Go OT in the first and EJ and the skill guys will be happier next season.
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