who thinks we will go OT in the 1st round

[TPS]

Well...I'm a Michigan fan...And though I like Lewan I think there is a gulf-like gap between Lewan and Robinson...Some are comparing Lewan to Jake Long...I would compare him more to Nate Solder with a bit of a mean streak...Lewan is a good prospect...I'm just uncertain he's #9 overall good...

 

I think Matthews is a cut above Lewan as well because at this point he's more polished...But they are close, and Lewan may have the higher ceiling if he can round off his game...

 

I'm in favor of a trade down from #9 unless Robinson is there...I think the Bills can trade down a bit and still get one from a group that includes Lewan at OT, Evans or Benjamin at WR, or Ebron at TE...That's the way I would approach this Draft if I was Whaley...But we'll see...

Thanks. I've read that some think Lewan has more potential than Mathews, and he is on the cusp of being in the top 10.

I agree with your strategy, but I'm afraid the Bills won't find a trade partner, so they'll have to pick one of those four names (includes Lewan). Some think Mosely should be in that mix as well, and I do think that having a better run-stuffing MLB is a big need, if he fits that Bill.

 

I think this is going to be a wild draft throughout that top 10, given so many projected QB picks AND double picks for the Rams and Browns. You just don't know what some of those QB needy teams really think about the QBs projected...

Edited February 15, 2014 by TPS

[thewildrabbit]

I am not an EJ fan but other than that: Spiller, Aaron Williams, Glenn, Kiko, Woods, Goodwin, Gilmore (had a rough year). You really take issue with their drafts????

 

The other point is a fair one but you need to judge drafts differently by regime. The Bills staff that is no longer in place made those mistakes. Nix/Whaley used a 2nd on a franchise LT that was by far the best OL on the team (check PFF).

 

Wood actually had a miserable year last year. I know that in some ways it was a function of the awful play at LG but Glenn played next to the same guys. My point again is that you do not need to reach at 9. If you feel that Robinson or Matthews is worth the 9th pick (Robinson is the only one that I would consider) -go for it. You can find starting OL in potentially the 2nd and 3rd pretty easily (for example: Tiny Richardson and Gabe Jackson). You cannot find a Watkins or Mack type of playmaker in the 2nd or 3rd unless you get lucky.

 

My intuition (again unscientific) would tell me that the % of pass rushers in the top 20 or so in sacks, starting QBs, pro bowl skill players and franchise LTs is much higher than the % of RT, LG, TE, run stuffing LB starters that were selected in the 1st 50 picks. You can find starters at those other positions in a lot of places.

 

It is not that RT, etc... are not needs because they are HUGE needs. If the value is there (ie Robinson) that is fine. He could become great. If not do not reach because you will be getting a solid RT (Lewan) while the next team gets a 10+ sack guy with 100 tackle potential (Mack). Which player is more important to a team's success? Which of those is harder to find?

where did it get this team? Oh yea, another 6-10 season, and it really isn't that complicated.

 

Nobody but the experts know how to grade Lewan, and he could become an all pro. We fans will get the breakdown during the combine in six days.

 

Should the Bills draft him and he starts at RT, and grades in the green against the Patriots while allowing EJ time to throw. Allows the bills to control the clock in both passing, and running then hell yeah he is more important in my view.

 

I just think most of the fans here just don't understand how important it is to have a solid dependable top O line from tackle to tackle. To protect that young developing QB.

 

 

 

Now think a min, everyone says that the Bills can find good talent in the later rounds, since when? The second round a later round?

 

Howsabout finding a LBer in the later rounds like the Seahawks did with the Seattle super bowl MVP 7th round LBer Malcolm Smith!! How about the other MVP in safety Kam Chancellor who was a 5th round pick in 2010. You know, the kid who also intercepted Manning.

[RK_BillsFan]

That's really not fair either because the Broncos had the most prolific offense of all time!! They got worked by a phenomenal defense but to act like that offense had problems this year is crazy.

 

Whats not fair? You can have all the weapons you want, If the QB can't throw the ball, and you can't run the ball, you aren't going to score. If you can't score the best you can hope for is a tie. Games are won initially up front at the Line. Look at the amazing OL that the Seahawks have. They don't exactly have amazing weapons (Excluding Lynch). Their Wr's are middle of the pack. Their D on the other hand is rather Elite. Something we are not 1 or 2 drafts away from being.

[CardinalScotts]

There is probably an expectation of thos OT's to play RT in their 1st year and then move to LT in their second?

 

We dont have that situation. Our LT spot is solidified I honestly dont know if I go OG that high.

and to lb's were taken and those teams missed the playoffs = dont take a lb

[Kirby Jackson]

where did it get this team? Oh yea, another 6-10 season, and it really isn't that complicated.

 

Nobody but the experts know how to grade Lewan, and he could become an all pro. We fans will get the breakdown during the combine in six days.

 

Should the Bills draft him and he starts at RT, and grades in the green against the Patriots while allowing EJ time to throw. Allows the bills to control the clock in both passing, and running then hell yeah he is more important in my view.

 

I just think most of the fans here just don't understand how important it is to have a solid dependable top O line from tackle to tackle. To protect that young developing QB.

 

 

 

Now think a min, everyone says that the Bills can find good talent in the later rounds, since when? The second round a later round?

 

Howsabout finding a LBer in the later rounds like the Seahawks did with the Seattle super bowl MVP 7th round LBer Malcolm Smith!! How about the other MVP in safety Kam Chancellor who was a 5th round pick in 2010. You know, the kid who also intercepted Manning.

Would you say that the level of talent on this 6-10 team is greater than a few years ago?? I certainly would. I believe that the Bills are on the upswing. There is talent and young talent that is developing (I forgot Dareus).

 

Everyone would love to draft a Super Bowl MVP in the 7th or an all pro in the 5th. It happens from time to time. The Bills found undrafted all pros in Peters and Pat Williams and a star in Freddie. It is a crapshoot.

 

What do you think is greater the gap between Lewan and Tiny Richardson or the gap between Watkins and Jarvis Landry? That is how I form my draft opinions. Would I rather have something like Watkins and Richardson or Lewan and Landry? It is a no brainer IMO. Now the draft is obviously fluid so you do not know what players will be there (doubt Watkins will be) but you get the point. There are a bunch of guys in this draft that could start at RT next year. There is 1 guy that could become a number 1 WR this season IMO.

 

Like I said the Bills need at least 3 OL (with a healthy Hairston). A starting LG as one and a starting RT potentially (again depends on Hairston).

 

 

 

Whats not fair? You can have all the weapons you want, If the QB can't throw the ball, and you can't run the ball, you aren't going to score. If you can't score the best you can hope for is a tie. Games are won initially up front at the Line. Look at the amazing OL that the Seahawks have. They don't exactly have amazing weapons (Excluding Lynch). Their Wr's are middle of the pack. Their D on the other hand is rather Elite. Something we are not 1 or 2 drafts away from being.

They scored more this year than anyone ever (I think). They struggled against Seattle but how do you figure that they could not score? Edited February 15, 2014 by Kirby Jackson

[TPS]

where did it get this team? Oh yea, another 6-10 season, and it really isn't that complicated.

 

Nobody but the experts know how to grade Lewan, and he could become an all pro. We fans will get the breakdown during the combine in six days.

 

Should the Bills draft him and he starts at RT, and grades in the green against the Patriots while allowing EJ time to throw. Allows the bills to control the clock in both passing, and running then hell yeah he is more important in my view.

 

I just think most of the fans here just don't understand how important it is to have a solid dependable top O line from tackle to tackle. To protect that young developing QB.

 

 

 

Now think a min, everyone says that the Bills can find good talent in the later rounds, since when? The second round a later round?

 

Howsabout finding a LBer in the later rounds like the Seahawks did with the Seattle super bowl MVP 7th round LBer Malcolm Smith!! How about the other MVP in safety Kam Chancellor who was a 5th round pick in 2010. You know, the kid who also intercepted Manning.

Stop making sense!

In FA, they will not over-spend for external (may do so for Byrd). Given that, I think the Bills can find a LB and G in FA that upgrade the position (because they are so weak now), and they could easily find someone to improve on Graham, all of these without breaking the bank. These additions would at least give them the ability to target those positions later in the draft. However, I don't think they can find an OT, who would fit their spending budget, that would be a significant upgrade over Pears. They'll have to find that in the draft.

[ColdBlueNorth]

Im trying to figure out why we would feel the need to go OT so high.......

 

- We have our LT

- LG was a MUCH BIGGER need.....and a immediate starter can probably be found in the 1st or second round

 

The more I think about it the more I think we are gonna

 

- Trade down and pick up an additional 2nd rounder......and pick a starting LG in the 1st then go WR and TE

 

or

 

- Take a LB

 

This.

 

There is a laundry list of teams that are in desperate need of O-Line help at the tackle spot, there is likely going to be a serious run on the top-tier projected talent there leaving Buffalo at a reach position at 9. This would be a great draft for the Bills to trade down and grab an extra 2nd pick as it is deep in quality receivers, tight ends, guards, and linebackers. There are even a few ball-hawking safeties worth taking that will likely be there towards the bottom of the 1st if the Bills need to find a replacement for Byrd...

[RK_BillsFan]

They scored more this year than anyone ever (I think). They struggled against Seattle but how do you figure that they could not score?

 

The point I was trying to make was, you can have all the weapons in the world, an set a bunch of records. Means jack squat if you don't win the only game that matters because your QB runs into a brick wall.

[thebandit27]

So now we've got posters using Denver--who had the best OL in the NFL in 2013 despite missin their pro bowl LT--as an example of how you cannot win I you don't have a dominating OL?

 

Meanwhile, the team they got annihilated by, Seattle, had one of the worst OLs in the game.

 

Yes, that argument makes complete sense.

 

Good work fellas.

 

If anything, the Superbowl shows that the most complete team, that has the QB, defense, and coaching, is what wins.

 

NOT a dominating OL, NOT the skill positions like WR and RB and TE.

 

Let's all stop conflating the argument.

[Kirby Jackson]

 

 

The point I was trying to make was, you can have all the weapons in the world, an set a bunch of records. Means jack squat if you don't win the only game that matters because your QB runs into a brick wall.

It's a really weak argument no offense. You are saying that the most prolific offense of all time is a bad offense. They were crushed by an elite defense. If that game showed you one thing it would be to draft elite DBs (sorry Bill in NYC) as they were the difference.

 

I keep saying it but it is not about positions it is about players. Take the best rated player at a position of need. The tiebreaker has to be the depth of that particular position.

Edited February 15, 2014 by Kirby Jackson

[KGUNBILLS]

At this point I don't really know who we'll take, I just hope that person is an impact player immediately.

[Trader]

I would like to trade down and get Benjamin. . But if Watkins is there they have to take him or trade out of the spot. If Watkins is gone then take either LB Mack, OT Robinson who is destined to be a great lineman for many years or OT Matthews. I don't want Mosley from Alabama because of his injury history. There are really no other realistic choices without making giant reaches. A better O line should mean a better QB and a better running game. A better defense should mean a better QB. Neither of the top TE's deserve a number 9 pick because they have holes in their games. The worst case scenario for the Bills is for Watkins, Mack, Robinson and Matthews to be off the board and not be able to trade out. I might take LB Barr in that case or Safety Clinton Dix. I might be tempted to reach for Benjamin also.

[OldTimer1960]

 

 

Agree on all counts--I was refuting the false logic of "look what happens when you draft an OL men in the top 11--you make the playoffs!"

 

My position is typically that it takes at least 20-25 games to get a feel for a player

 

We are on the same page. Some here who expect immediate success spawned by a rookie or two are ignoring the odds. I'll grant that Andrew Luck got his team to the playoffs in just his 2nd year - but there are VERY few players as impactful as Andrew Luck.

 

I think the Bills have built a good foundation on Defense and put some parts in place on O last year. Best hope for significant improvement this year is growth from young players from the last 2 drafts. Yes, we hope that we'll find more good rookies this year, but likely it will take them a bit of time to hit their stride in the NFL.

 

As an example: Cleveland's Josh Gordon had a good rookie year w 50 receptions for about 800 yards. In his second year he caught 87 passes for 1600+ yards - nearly 80% more catches and over 100% more yards in year 2! Of course that is exceptional, but it illustrates the point that a rookie year doesn't define a player often.

 

 

[chris heff]

I would like to trade down and get Benjamin. . But if Watkins is there they have to take him or trade out of the spot. If Watkins is gone then take either LB Mack, OT Robinson who is destined to be a great lineman for many years or OT Matthews. I don't want Mosley from Alabama because of his injury history. There are really no other realistic choices without making giant reaches. A better O line should mean a better QB and a better running game. A better defense should mean a better QB. Neither of the top TE's deserve a number 9 pick because they have holes in their games. The worst case scenario for the Bills is for Watkins, Mack, Robinson and Matthews to be off the board and not be able to trade out. I might take LB Barr in that case or Safety Clinton Dix. I might be tempted to reach for Benjamin also.

Did you leave anybody out? The Bills are definatly going to draft someone.

[Astrobot]

This.

 

There is a laundry list of teams that are in desperate need of O-Line help at the tackle spot, there is likely going to be a serious run on the top-tier projected talent there leaving Buffalo at a reach position at 9. This would be a great draft for the Bills to trade down and grab an extra 2nd pick as it is deep in quality receivers, tight ends, guards, and linebackers. There are even a few ball-hawking safeties worth taking that will likely be there towards the bottom of the 1st if the Bills need to find a replacement for Byrd...

 

Here is the laundry list:

I've listed players who will go in the Top 3 Rounds (Top 100)

 

LT---P1=Miami. P2=New Orleans. P3=ARI, CAR, CIN, STL. 6 needed (Matthews, Robinson, Richardson, Kouandijio, Lewan, Martin, Mewhort)

 

RT---P1=None. P2=Baltimore, Buffalo, Miami. P3=CAR, STL, WAS. 6 needed (Matthews, Robinson, Richardson, Kouandijio, Henderson, Moses, Mewhort

 

OG--P1=None. P2=BUF, IND, MIA, NO, SEA, STL, WAS. Need 7: Yankey, Su'a-Filo, Martin, Richardson, Steen, Jackson, Groy http://bit.ly/Ir8MTi

 

You can see the problem and the solution here. Several LT's can also play RT. We think LTs Lewan (LT only) and Martin (could be good OG) are less-likely successful on the opposite side of the line. Likewise, RTs Henderson and Moses (both RT only).

Edited February 15, 2014 by Astrobot

[thewildrabbit]

It's a really weak argument no offense. You are saying that the most prolific offense of all time is a bad offense. They were crushed by an elite defense. If that game showed you one thing it would be to draft elite DBs (sorry Bill in NYC) as they were the difference.

 

I keep saying it but it is not about positions it is about players. Take the best rated player at a position of need. The tiebreaker has to be the depth of that particular position.

Draft "elite" DB's huh... like the Seahawks?

 

Where were those elite DB's drafted ?

 

LCB Richard Sherman 5th round

RCB Brandon Browner FA

SS Kam Chancellor 5th round. could have been MVP, as he also played a big role in that game

FS Earl Thomas 1st round, 14th pick

 

Looking over that dominate Seattle defense they have two #1's, one #2, and the MVP LB Malcolm Smith was a 7th round pick.

 

The Bills have 9 of 11 players on defense drafted in the first two round, and all it has gotten them is 6-10. How about now building that O properly!!

 

Would you say that the level of talent on this 6-10 team is greater than a few years ago?? I certainly would. I believe that the Bills are on the upswing. There is talent and young talent that is developing (I forgot Dareus).

 

Everyone would love to draft a Super Bowl MVP in the 7th or an all pro in the 5th. It happens from time to time. The Bills found undrafted all pros in Peters and Pat Williams and a star in Freddie. It is a crapshoot.

 

What do you think is greater the gap between Lewan and Tiny Richardson or the gap between Watkins and Jarvis Landry? That is how I form my draft opinions. Would I rather have something like Watkins and Richardson or Lewan and Landry? It is a no brainer IMO. Now the draft is obviously fluid so you do not know what players will be there (doubt Watkins will be) but you get the point. There are a bunch of guys in this draft that could start at RT next year. There is 1 guy that could become a number 1 WR this season IMO.

 

Like I said the Bills need at least 3 OL (with a healthy Hairston). A starting LG as one and a starting RT potentially (again depends on Hairston).

 

They scored more this year than anyone ever (I think). They struggled against Seattle but how do you figure that they could not score?

After being out a year I wouldn't count on Hairston for anything but a backup spot, and even then...because we fans simply don't know the extent of his illness. He tweeted this month that he is still getting better, and from what we don't know. It must be something serious to take this long to recover from.

 

No offense KB, but I doubt you have a real understanding of exactly how important every position on that O line is, or that you think this team can pluck a top RT in later rounds. So far that has never worked!

 

I want the Bills to plug in a JD Fluker type player, and in my view that won't be had in later rounds. Did you see the impact that kid had on his team last season? It remains to be seen what the final grades are on all the OT's in the years draft, and there are supposedly 7 in the top 50. So, stating that there might be another decent OT in the second round.

 

Will there be another Cordy Glenn? I dunno, will there be another really good OT who everyone had graded as an OG, so he fell to Buffalo in the second round, Zack Martin may certainly fit that.

 

With Levitre, Wood, Glenn they were two players away from having a great O line, and now this year they are three players away

 

I've been waiting almost forever for this team to build a dominate OL and they never do. Last off season was particularly frustrating for me because I got to watch the Bills let an above average starting O line player leave, and then the Bills try and replace him with a player who didn't even qualify as a decent backup, or PS player. From my trying to state my concerns about the line in this forum, and all I caught for it was grief from the thinktheyknowitalls that the O line would be just as good as it was in 2012, it wasn't. In fact, it was worse in pass blocking then it was back in 2010 with Fitz virtually running for his life nearly every game.

[QCity]

I just think most of the fans here just don't understand how important it is to have a solid dependable top O line from tackle to tackle.

 

No, most fans cannot properly analyze line play and incorrectly believe that an offensive line can be graded in a vacuum. Our line is a lot better than what this thread is making them out to be.

[Kirby Jackson]

Draft "elite" DB's huh... like the Seahawks?

 

Where were those elite DB's drafted ?

 

LCB Richard Sherman 5th round

RCB Brandon Browner FA

SS Kam Chancellor 5th round. could have been MVP, as he also played a big role in that game

FS Earl Thomas 1st round, 14th pick

 

Looking over that dominate Seattle defense they have two #1's, one #2, and the MVP LB Malcolm Smith was a 7th round pick.

 

The Bills have 9 of 11 players on defense drafted in the first two round, and all it has gotten them is 6-10. How about now building that O properly!!

 

After being out a year I wouldn't count on Hairston for anything but a backup spot, and even then...because we fans simply don't know the extent of his illness. He tweeted this month that he is still getting better, and from what we don't know. It must be something serious to take this long to recover from.

 

No offense KB, but I doubt you have a real understanding of exactly how important every position on that O line is, or that you think this team can pluck a top RT in later rounds. So far that has never worked!

 

I want the Bills to plug in a JD Fluker type player, and in my view that won't be had in later rounds. Did you see the impact that kid had on his team last season? It remains to be seen what the final grades are on all the OT's in the years draft, and there are supposedly 7 in the top 50. So, stating that there might be another decent OT in the second round.

 

Will there be another Cordy Glenn? I dunno, will there be another really good OT who everyone had graded as an OG, so he fell to Buffalo in the second round, Zack Martin may certainly fit that.

 

With Levitre, Wood, Glenn they were two players away from having a great O line, and now this year they are three players away

 

I've been waiting almost forever for this team to build a dominate OL and they never do. Last off season was particularly frustrating for me because I got to watch the Bills let an above average starting O line player leave, and then the Bills try and replace him with a player who didn't even qualify as a decent backup, or PS player. From my trying to state my concerns about the line in this forum, and all I caught for it was grief from the thinktheyknowitalls that the O line would be just as good as it was in 2012, it wasn't. In fact, it was worse in pass blocking then it was back in 2010 with Fitz virtually running for his life nearly every game.

If the blueprint is that you win from the secondary up (as Seattle did) and you wanted to emulate them you would need to draft the elite talent early.

 

Seattle's RT is a 7th round pick. FWIW, I think that I have a pretty good grasp of the OL. How many teams have RT that are 1st round picks (exclude KC and Jax as they were drafted as LT)? Take it one step further and how many were picked in the top 9??? Lane Johnson (and there were thoughts that Peters was done). Anthony Davis was in that range as well as Fluker. I cannot think of anymore off the top of my head but you are the expert... Andre Smith was drafted to play LT but couldn't. Lane Johnson was drafted as a RT (IMO) but they had a left handed QB. If the Bills selected someone at 9 to be a RT I think that would be the highest selected tackle to not block the blindside in the NFL.

Edited February 15, 2014 by Kirby Jackson

[Baba Booey]

Mike Williams is all have to say about that!!!

[3rdand12]

To clarify: I believe that the team needs 4 OL (3 if Hairston is healthy). I am not downplaying the need for OL; I just don't think that it is needed in the 1st unless it is a franchise LT.

This .