thebandit27 Posted February 25, 2014 Posted February 25, 2014 Which would you rather: A) Sign Strief & draft Mike Evans B) Sign Britt & draft Taylor Lewan Option A by a country mile
Kirby Jackson Posted February 25, 2014 Posted February 25, 2014 Option A by a country mile That's kind of the point (and I am not really an Evans fan). It is SO much easier to find RT than it is elite skill players. LT is a different story and the Bills do not need a LT. You could set up a lot of scenarios just like this (elite skill player + solid free agent RT vs. top tackle on the board and solid free agent WR) and end up with the same result.
KOKBILLS Posted February 25, 2014 Posted February 25, 2014 2014 NFL combine: Value of QBs in question as OTs are climbing 3. Predictable rise of offensive tackles:"There's just less questions about these guys than some of the other talent." http://www.cbssports...ts-are-climbing I just don'ft think there is any way to ignore the fact that all three of the top OT's are considered better prospects than the kid that went #1 overall last year...I realize that goes for a few other prospects in this Draft at other positions as well...But if you're considering an OT, these guys may be too good to pass up...
C.Biscuit97 Posted February 25, 2014 Posted February 25, 2014 Which would you rather: A) Sign Strief & draft Mike Evans B) Sign Britt & draft Taylor Lewan Is this even a question? Kenny Britt is one of the biggest morons to ever play football. He has to be one strike away from a year long suspension and I think he has one year of over 800 yards in his career. He was talked about as being one of the guys that quit this year in Tennessee. He might not even be in the NFL next year. But other than that, he's awesome. On top of that, I think Lewan has the msot bust potential of the top Ts. I can see speed rushers eating him alive. Evans and Streif would be a dream. I just don'ft think there is any way to ignore the fact that all three of the top OT's are considered better prospects than the kid that went #1 overall last year...I realize that goes for a few other prospects in this Draft at other positions as well...But if you're considering an OT, these guys may be too good to pass up... This is the hype about the draft though. EJ Manuel has the same exact measurements/ stats of Blake Bortles (EJ actually has the edge in some categories). Yet, EJ was a reach in the 1st and Bortles might go #1 overall??? IMO, the only undeniable talent is Greg Robinson and he really never had to pas block. Next year's draft will be the best draft ever. It gets repeated every year.
thebandit27 Posted February 25, 2014 Posted February 25, 2014 That's kind of the point (and I am not really an Evans fan). It is SO much easier to find RT than it is elite skill players. LT is a different story and the Bills do not need a LT. You could set up a lot of scenarios just like this (elite skill player + solid free agent RT vs. top tackle on the board and solid free agent WR) and end up with the same result. You're preaching to the choir Kirby. Spending a top pick on a RT or LG is a wasted resource IMO. The only way I do it is if you're in the same position as KC/Jax last year: the OT is far and away the best player on the board and the long-term plan is to move said OT to LT
BigBuff423 Posted February 25, 2014 Posted February 25, 2014 Which would you rather: A) Sign Strief & draft Mike Evans B) Sign Britt & draft Taylor Lewan Neither...if Robinson or Lewan is there, you jump at them (barring Mack is still available which he won't be and I'm using the parameters of your scenario)...as evidenced by teams like NE and Seattle, you can take a no name bunch of WRs if you're winning in the trenches...maybe a better question would be, would you rather have EJ healthy throwing to a guy like Britt or 2nd Round Rookie WR, or a hobbled and banged up EJ - if even able to play - throwing to 1st Round Rookie WR? Once you invest in the Tackle position via Draft and FA Guard, you can talk about adding a top round talent at WR, but b/c WR is so deep this year, you'd be getting a normal mid to bottom 1st Round talent in the 2nd Round...a top tackle can save your QB, up your running game, and give the QB time to actually pass the ball...I like Evans, not as much as I value an OT though...
C.Biscuit97 Posted February 25, 2014 Posted February 25, 2014 Neither...if Robinson or Lewan is there, you jump at them (barring Mack is still available which he won't be and I'm using the parameters of your scenario)...as evidenced by teams like NE and Seattle, you can take a no name bunch of WRs if you're winning in the trenches...maybe a better question would be, would you rather have EJ healthy throwing to a guy like Britt or 2nd Round Rookie WR, or a hobbled and banged up EJ - if even able to play - throwing to 1st Round Rookie WR? Once you invest in the Tackle position via Draft and FA Guard, you can talk about adding a top round talent at WR, but b/c WR is so deep this year, you'd be getting a normal mid to bottom 1st Round talent in the 2nd Round...a top tackle can save your QB, up your running game, and give the QB time to actually pass the ball...I like Evans, not as much as I value an OT though... NE didn't go to the SB because they had no explosive playmakers.
Kirby Jackson Posted February 25, 2014 Posted February 25, 2014 (edited) Neither...if Robinson or Lewan is there, you jump at them (barring Mack is still available which he won't be and I'm using the parameters of your scenario)...as evidenced by teams like NE and Seattle, you can take a no name bunch of WRs if you're winning in the trenches...maybe a better question would be, would you rather have EJ healthy throwing to a guy like Britt or 2nd Round Rookie WR, or a hobbled and banged up EJ - if even able to play - throwing to 1st Round Rookie WR? Once you invest in the Tackle position via Draft and FA Guard, you can talk about adding a top round talent at WR, but b/c WR is so deep this year, you'd be getting a normal mid to bottom 1st Round talent in the 2nd Round...a top tackle can save your QB, up your running game, and give the QB time to actually pass the ball...I like Evans, not as much as I value an OT though... I am just trying to throw out a realistic offseason scenario. So you would pick Lewan and Britt? These are the types of decisions that the Bills have to make. How about this:A) Strief and Evans B) Lewan and Golden Tate You're preaching to the choir Kirby. Spending a top pick on a RT or LG is a wasted resource IMO. The only way I do it is if you're in the same position as KC/Jax last year: the OT is far and away the best player on the board and the long-term plan is to move said OT to LT Exactly!! Edited February 25, 2014 by Kirby Jackson
thebandit27 Posted February 25, 2014 Posted February 25, 2014 Neither...if Robinson or Lewan is there, you jump at them (barring Mack is still available which he won't be and I'm using the parameters of your scenario)...as evidenced by teams like NE and Seattle, you can take a no name bunch of WRs if you're winning in the trenches...maybe a better question would be, would you rather have EJ healthy throwing to a guy like Britt or 2nd Round Rookie WR, or a hobbled and banged up EJ - if even able to play - throwing to 1st Round Rookie WR? Once you invest in the Tackle position via Draft and FA Guard, you can talk about adding a top round talent at WR, but b/c WR is so deep this year, you'd be getting a normal mid to bottom 1st Round talent in the 2nd Round...a top tackle can save your QB, up your running game, and give the QB time to actually pass the ball...I like Evans, not as much as I value an OT though... Seattle's OL was a disaster last year. Wilson ran for his life much of the time, and Lynch made most of his yards by himself. They used 8 different starters along the OL--not a single lineman starting 16 games; not a single OT started more than 8. They averaged 4.3 YPC to Buffalo's 4.2, and allowed 44 sacks and 94 QB hits to Buffalo's 48/108. http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?seasonType=REG&offensiveStatisticCategory=OFFENSIVE_LINE&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-p=1&d-447263-s=RUSHING_TOTAL_AVERAGE_YDS&tabSeq=2&season=2013&role=TM&Submit=Go&archive=false&conference=null&defensiveStatisticCategory=null&qualified=false They're the poster child for the argument that skill positions like QB and RB are more important than OL
BigBuff423 Posted February 25, 2014 Posted February 25, 2014 NE didn't go to the SB because they had no explosive playmakers. Ok...so other than the SB they lost when they had Randy Moss...tell me who were the other WRs on their SB winning teams? What did they do after NE? I'll be you can name more Defensive Players on those teams than you can their WRs? How about their RBs during that time?? Past their prime RBs...? Guys who had a year or two left to contribute? I'm more than willing to listen... I am just trying to throw out a realistic offseason scenario. So you would pick Lewan and Britt? These are the types of decisions that the Bills have to make. How about this: A) Strief and Evans B) Lewan and Golden Tate Exactly!! Lewan and Golden Tate in taht scenario...b/c Tate can play, and Lewan will contribute not only in pass protection but also in the Run game...and Tate is a hell of a KR/PR as well Seattle's OL was a disaster last year. Wilson ran for his life much of the time, and Lynch made most of his yards by himself. They used 8 different starters along the OL--not a single lineman starting 16 games; not a single OT started more than 8. They averaged 4.3 YPC to Buffalo's 4.2, and allowed 44 sacks and 94 QB hits to Buffalo's 48/108. http://www.nfl.com/s...qualified=false They're the poster child for the argument that skill positions like QB and RB are more important than OL First, Wilson is not a QB that wins games on his own (usually), look at the SB, their Defense and STs did that for them...is he a good QB? Absolutely, can't win without one (as we all know too well!), but he isn't a difference maker...as for RB, I disagree...Lynch is good, no doubt there..but put Chris Johnson or Spiller in that Offense or maybe more appropriately, Ben Tate or maybe even Trent Richardson, where running is the priority and the Defense keeps the ball in the Seattle Offense's hands and that changes their career trajectory signficantly...the OL had issues, but look at where they invested their Draft choices and priorities...Defensive Line, Okung at LT..and by design Wilson bootlegged much of the time, to compensate for some height issues.....you can't take stats and stick them in a vaccuum, you need stats, but put in some perspective...if you think the BILLS should draft a WR at 9, feel free...it's what we all do here, have and share our opinions...but saying that QB and RB is more important as a whole flies in the face of all things logical in football and is contrary to what nearly every other team in the NFL, most importantly the successful ones, actually practice....
thebandit27 Posted February 25, 2014 Posted February 25, 2014 First, Wilson is not a QB that wins games on his own (usually), look at the SB, their Defense and STs did that for them...is he a good QB? Absolutely, can't win without one (as we all know too well!), but he isn't a difference maker...as for RB, I disagree...Lynch is good, no doubt there..but put Chris Johnson or Spiller in that Offense or maybe more appropriately, Ben Tate or maybe even Trent Richardson, where running is the priority and the Defense keeps the ball in the Seattle Offense's hands and that changes their career trajectory signficantly...the OL had issues, but look at where they invested their Draft choices and priorities...Defensive Line, Okung at LT..and by design Wilson bootlegged much of the time, to compensate for some height issues.....you can't take stats and stick them in a vaccuum, you need stats, but put in some perspective...if you think the BILLS should draft a WR at 9, feel free...it's what we all do here, have and share our opinions...but saying that QB and RB is more important as a whole flies in the face of all things logical in football and is contrary to what nearly every other team in the NFL, most importantly the successful ones, actually practice.... I'm not saying that QB/RB are more important, just that looking at Seattle would lead you to believe that. I think it's readily apparent that the most successful teams focus on getting a franchise QB and building the defense. If those 2 conditions are met, typically the rest can fall into place rather easily to make the team a perennial contender.
BigBuff423 Posted February 25, 2014 Posted February 25, 2014 I'm not saying that QB/RB are more important, just that looking at Seattle would lead you to believe that. I think it's readily apparent that the most successful teams focus on getting a franchise QB and building the defense. If those 2 conditions are met, typically the rest can fall into place rather easily to make the team a perennial contender. To the second point, agreed....
TPS Posted February 25, 2014 Posted February 25, 2014 As the combine winds down, I'm not sure much has changed in terms of the top picks. It looks like 3 QBs, clowney, Robinson, and Mack as the top 6. It looks like the next 2 will be some combination of Barr, Watkins, and Mathews, and I hope Barr goes as one of the 2 picks before the Bills' pick, leaving either Watkins or Mathews at 9.
thebandit27 Posted February 25, 2014 Posted February 25, 2014 As the combine winds down, I'm not sure much has changed in terms of the top picks. It looks like 3 QBs, clowney, Robinson, and Mack as the top 6. It looks like the next 2 will be some combination of Barr, Watkins, and Mathews, and I hope Barr goes as one of the 2 picks before the Bills' pick, leaving either Watkins or Mathews at 9. I'm not at all convinced that 3 QBs go in the top 6--top 8 maybe. I think the top 6 will be some combination of these 8: Clowney, Robinson, Watkins, Manziel, Mack, Matthews, Lewan and Bridgewater. I think--when all is said and done, Barr falls out of the top 10...maybe way out. I also think one of the QBs--not sure which one yet--is in for a Geno Smith-like plunge. Having this much talent at the top of the draft sure is fun!
Kirby Jackson Posted February 25, 2014 Posted February 25, 2014 I'm not at all convinced that 3 QBs go in the top 6--top 8 maybe. I think the top 6 will be some combination of these 8: Clowney, Robinson, Watkins, Manziel, Mack, Matthews, Lewan and Bridgewater. I think--when all is said and done, Barr falls out of the top 10...maybe way out. I also think one of the QBs--not sure which one yet--is in for a Geno Smith-like plunge. Having this much talent at the top of the draft sure is fun! I am almost in complete agreement with you. Barr seems like a guy that will slide. I just do not think that any of those 3 QBs falls out of the top 10. They have some questions for sure but teams are desperate for QB.
thebandit27 Posted February 25, 2014 Posted February 25, 2014 I am almost in complete agreement with you. Barr seems like a guy that will slide. I just do not think that any of those 3 QBs falls out of the top 10. They have some questions for sure but teams are desperate for QB. Barr just seems so pedestrian to me...he doesn't pop off the screen when I watch video of him (I haven't seen any coach's tape, so that may have something to do with it), his workout showed very little explosion and underwhelming speed/strength etc. I contrast him to Mack--whose game play was so astounding--and I look at the phenomenal explosion and speed he showed in his workouts, and I don't see how they're in the same league.
Kirby Jackson Posted February 25, 2014 Posted February 25, 2014 Barr just seems so pedestrian to me...he doesn't pop off the screen when I watch video of him (I haven't seen any coach's tape, so that may have something to do with it), his workout showed very little explosion and underwhelming speed/strength etc. I contrast him to Mack--whose game play was so astounding--and I look at the phenomenal explosion and speed he showed in his workouts, and I don't see how they're in the same league. Totally agree. Barr has high bust potential to me. He reminds me some of Kiki Mingo last year (who I was on record as not liking at all). Mingo looked good as a rookie but I saw a lot of him at LSU and his production was inconsistent. I thought that I was going to really like Barr during the college football season as I looked forward to the draft. I just didn't see it in games or in his workout.
KOKBILLS Posted February 26, 2014 Posted February 26, 2014 (edited) Is this even a question? Kenny Britt is one of the biggest morons to ever play football. He has to be one strike away from a year long suspension and I think he has one year of over 800 yards in his career. He was talked about as being one of the guys that quit this year in Tennessee. He might not even be in the NFL next year. But other than that, he's awesome. On top of that, I think Lewan has the msot bust potential of the top Ts. I can see speed rushers eating him alive. Evans and Streif would be a dream. This is the hype about the draft though. EJ Manuel has the same exact measurements/ stats of Blake Bortles (EJ actually has the edge in some categories). Yet, EJ was a reach in the 1st and Bortles might go #1 overall??? IMO, the only undeniable talent is Greg Robinson and he really never had to pas block. Next year's draft will be the best draft ever. It gets repeated every year. I don't think it's hype at all considering these 3 OT's in comparison to Joeckel and Fisher...Hype only works on the uneducated and unstudied...I think all 3 are better prospects, especially Robinson who I believe will end up being the best player from this Draft and an absolute monster at the NFL level...Matthews and Lewan are closer to the two OT's last year...But Matthews is clearly more polished, and Lewan has better upside...I agree that Lewan needs the most work...But he's got some really, really good film too...and great athletic ability...Lewan's athletic ability and size is absolutely elite for an LT prospect...I think he can easily be as good if not better than Nate Solder...There were plenty of scouts last year saying Joeckel was not even the best O-Lineman on his team...It's Matthews they were referring to...It's not hype on these 3...They are legit prospects and I think it's easy to imagine all three pushing Fisher and Joeckel down a few spots...... Edited February 26, 2014 by KOKBILLS
GunnerBill Posted February 26, 2014 Posted February 26, 2014 (edited) Agree with what has been said. Barr is the slider for me, should never have been rated that high to begin with. Wouldn't amaze me if Watkins slid a little bit either, not out of the top 15 but possibly out of the top 8. I'm just not as sure a lot of NFL clubs will have him as high on their boad as some of the draft "experts". As for climbers.... I think the time when I thought Mack might slide to our pick at #9 is over and I think Evans has probably solidified himself as the second receiver off the board now. I'd be amazed if he slid below say 15. I think he will still be there for the Bills at #9 unless someone trades up to jump in front of us and if that happens he would have gatecrashed the top 8. Edited February 26, 2014 by GunnerBill
mattsox Posted February 26, 2014 Posted February 26, 2014 I don't like taking OTs that high. Agreed. We have 3 Tackles that are NFL Capable and have long careers ahead of them. I wouldn't put the onus on OT. We need WR,TE,LB,CB. Those are the positions we should be focusing in on.
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