Jonathan Martin

[C.Biscuit97]

You left out the third option - No, because he's not really good.

 

http://www.thephinsider.com/2012/10/23/3541060/a-look-back-at-the-miami-dolphins-rookies-ii-jonathan-martin

[GG]

http://www.thephinsi...jonathan-martin

 

And?

[C.Biscuit97]

And?

 

And it says he was developing nicely as a rookie. Then last year happened. Why people won't want to bring a former 2nd round pick in cheaply at a position that can be upgraded is weird to me. It's like people are blaming the victim for all this.

[bobobonators]

 

 

And it says he was developing nicely as a rookie. Then last year happened. Why people won't want to bring a former 2nd round pick in cheaply at a position that can be upgraded is weird to me. It's like people are blaming the victim for all this.

 

Just speaking for myself here. But what I saw last season was an improved Miami O-line after Martin and Incognito bounced

[GG]

And it says he was developing nicely as a rookie. Then last year happened. Why people won't want to bring a former 2nd round pick in cheaply at a position that can be upgraded is weird to me. It's like people are blaming the victim for all this.

 

That 2012 article was mostly spin by Sherman, who in coach speak admitted that Martin sucked, but he held out hope that he would improve. That hope went into the outhouse during the 2013 season when Dolphins had to scramble to fix the mess their 2nd round pick was leaving on the field. Note that Martin's explosion came after the team traded for McKinnie. Note how much better their OL started playing when Martin was out of the line up,

 

No thanks.

[Johnny Hammersticks]

I don't see how bringing him in could hurt. Just bring him in for a workout, and see what the coaching staff sees in him. He can't be any worse than Thomas Welch, can he? Also, I agree with some posts here that he MIGHT improve with an organization like Buffalo. Good, cohesive locker room with class players, and a coach (and team leaders) who wouldn't put up with that kind of BS.

[Cheddar's Dad]

I'm shocked by some of the responses here. Incognito is a known idiot. Yet Martin still is getting crap for saying enough is a enough? Because he's a football player, he has to physically stand up to a known wacko? How would that go over in your job place? Martin took a stand and because of it, lockerrooms will be different.

 

Martin was tough enough to protect Andrew Luck's blindside in college. He was tough enough to be a 2nd round pick. Who's to say that his play was hurt because of the crap going on in that lockerroom? It would cost nothing to bring him in. IMO, he has the potential to be the perfect RT in today's NFL. He needs strength but honestly, athletic tackles are more important than maulers. The Bills have a great lockerroom and Martin would love it here. Personally, I would have tried to stand up to that idiot RI. But why get on the case of guy who decided to take a different way than violence?

 

http://www.thefinsid...s-a-left-tackle

 

http://grantland.com...llying-scandal/

 

Yes, absolutely. He's a football player and he quit his team. I want no part of that kind of softness on my team. There are known wacko's that play defense, Sue for example, that would likely be locked in the slammer today if it had not been for football talent. What would he do facing Sue? Complain to the ref that Sue hit him too hard? The NFL is no place for the "can't we all just get along" crowd. I think it's doubtful that we'll ever see him on a NFL roster again.

 

I know a guy who was harrassed in high school. One day someone pushed him once to often. He burst into tears but then he started throwing punches. No one ever bothered him after that. There are times in life when you need to take a stand. That's how you gain respect. There are players in the league who now see this guy as a putz and would love to play against him because they know that when things get down and dirty, he will quit.

[C.Biscuit97]

Just speaking for myself here. But what I saw last season was an improved Miami O-line after Martin and Incognito bounced

 

Not disagreeing with that at all. He wasn't good. But I just would like to kick the tires on a talented, young, and smart player. Some people want to bring in scumbags or make excuses for guys who didn't work hard (Da'Rick Rogers). Why not Martin? Who knows how much the bullying bother his play. If the guy hasn't any heart, he'd want to prove himself even more now and really stick it to the Fins. The 49ers are really good at bringing in top picks that washed out with their previous team for good bargains. We should do that same.

[thebandit27]

Not disagreeing with that at all. He wasn't good. But I just would like to kick the tires on a talented, young, and smart player. Some people want to bring in scumbags or make excuses for guys who didn't work hard (Da'Rick Rogers). Why not Martin? Who knows how much the bullying bother his play. If the guy hasn't any heart, he'd want to prove himself even more now and really stick it to the Fins. The 49ers are really good at bringing in top picks that washed out with their previous team for good bargains. We should do that same.

 

If Martin had shown any signs of being a decent player, I might consider it...he hasn't.

 

He also has shown to have some emotional issues, which I'm content to let another team sort out.

 

Lastly, I can't really think of any top pick washouts at the moment that have had any significant impact with SF. Maybe Whitner? Carlos Rodgers? I wouldn't consider either a washout, and the vast majority of SF's impact players were draft picks, while a few others were highly coveted FAs.

[Cheddar's Dad]

Not disagreeing with that at all. He wasn't good. But I just would like to kick the tires on a talented, young, and smart player. Some people want to bring in scumbags or make excuses for guys who didn't work hard (Da'Rick Rogers). Why not Martin? Who knows how much the bullying bother his play. If the guy hasn't any heart, he'd want to prove himself even more now and really stick it to the Fins. The 49ers are really good at bringing in top picks that washed out with their previous team for good bargains. We should do that same.

 

You really think he'll be on the 49ers' roster at the start of next season???

[C.Biscuit97]

Yes, absolutely. He's a football player and he quit his team. I want no part of that kind of softness on my team. There are known wacko's that play defense, Sue for example, that would likely be locked in the slammer today if it had not been for football talent. What would he do facing Sue? Complain to the ref that Sue hit him too hard? The NFL is no place for the "can't we all just get along" crowd. I think it's doubtful that we'll ever see him on a NFL roster again.

 

I know a guy who was harrassed in high school. One day someone pushed him once to often. He burst into tears but then he started throwing punches. No one ever bothered him after that. There are times in life when you need to take a stand. That's how you gain respect. There are players in the league who now see this guy as a putz and would love to play against him because they know that when things get down and dirty, he will quit.

 

For the most part, I agree with you. At the same time, it is very dangerous to paint everyone with the same brush. Football is a team sport filled with many different personalities and body types. Martin was hardly the first person to have problems with RI. Antonio Smith swung his helmet at him. Is that really a better way to deal with it? If you told me RI murder a person, I won't doubt it. He is flat out crazy. Martin was a smart guy who isn't a typical meathead. He probably was afraid of RI. It's easy to say he should just stand up for himself. But you are underestimating the power of the bully. It's like telling someone who has depression to just get over it.

 

My main point is the guy has talent and it didn't work out there. but it worked out for his whole prior to Miami. RI might be the biggest scumbag in the NFL. So will I give Martin a pass for that? Yup and I'd love the Bills to bring him in.

[YoloinOhio]

Not disagreeing with that at all. He wasn't good. But I just would like to kick the tires on a talented, young, and smart player. Some people want to bring in scumbags or make excuses for guys who didn't work hard (Da'Rick Rogers). Why not Martin? Who knows how much the bullying bother his play. If the guy hasn't any heart, he'd want to prove himself even more now and really stick it to the Fins. The 49ers are really good at bringing in top picks that washed out with their previous team for good bargains. We should do that same.

Sure - bring him into camp and let him earn a spot or cut him (or he can be a backup). Former 1st rd pick? Might as well give him a chance and see what happens instead of assuming it will be exactly the same as when he was with Miami. No one is saying hand him the starting gig based on that performance, but wouldn't hurt to try him out.

[C.Biscuit97]

Sure - bring him into camp and let him earn a spot or cut him (or he can be a backup). Former 1st rd pick? Might as well give him a chance and see what happens instead of assuming it will be exactly the same as when he was with Miami. No one is saying hand him the starting gig based on that performance, but wouldn't hurt to try him out.

 

Yup. What would it hurt?

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

Agree, if that was the third choice I would have voted for that instead. We need guards more, plus didin't I recall Martin getting shuffled from Left to right side. So which is he?? If you brought him in would be at RT and are their better options for RT??

 

I'd rather have Richie Incognito back, seriously. Just don't make him a captain, he's better then anyone that played guard for us this year.

[GG]

For the most part, I agree with you. At the same time, it is very dangerous to paint everyone with the same brush. Football is a team sport filled with many different personalities and body types. Martin was hardly the first person to have problems with RI. Antonio Smith swung his helmet at him. Is that really a better way to deal with it? If you told me RI murder a person, I won't doubt it. He is flat out crazy. Martin was a smart guy who isn't a typical meathead. He probably was afraid of RI. It's easy to say he should just stand up for himself. But you are underestimating the power of the bully. It's like telling someone who has depression to just get over it.

 

My main point is the guy has talent and it didn't work out there. but it worked out for his whole prior to Miami. RI might be the biggest scumbag in the NFL. So will I give Martin a pass for that? Yup and I'd love the Bills to bring him in.

 

We are talking about Martin's plying ability. The RI incident is a sideshow that came about largely because Martin was not a good player and the team, in whatever rudimentary ways it knew tried to get him with the program.

 

As you say, you can't paint every player with the same brush, is the reason why you avoid bringing players like Martin and Da'Rick into your lockerroom. Martin, because he isn't very good and looks to be lacking the desire and temperament to be an NFL player. Rogers, because of his immaturity and dedication to the learning. As others opined, the coaching staff has finite time & resources to devote to 60 players. There's a reason why players with checkered pasts (for whatever reason) don't get the same leeway as players who fully buy into the system.

[C.Biscuit97]

You really think he'll be on the 49ers' roster at the start of next season???

 

Considering Jim Harbaugh was his coach at Stanford, yes.

 

If Martin had shown any signs of being a decent player, I might consider it...he hasn't.

 

He also has shown to have some emotional issues, which I'm content to let another team sort out.

 

Lastly, I can't really think of any top pick washouts at the moment that have had any significant impact with SF. Maybe Whitner? Carlos Rodgers? I wouldn't consider either a washout, and the vast majority of SF's impact players were draft picks, while a few others were highly coveted FAs.

 

Rogers was considered a big bust in Washington. They also traded for Jonathan Baldwin, former 1st rounder of KC. They brought in Ted Ginn and Glenn Dorsey.

 

Some times, players just aren't good enough. But there is talent if you're drafted in the 1st 2nd rounds. Provided the player isn't a total scumbag and the cost is right, why not kick the tires? Hughes was considered a bust. And Manny Lawson has bounced around the league. Both played pretty well for us.

[Dopey]

Yes, absolutely. He's a football player and he quit his team. I want no part of that kind of softness on my team. There are known wacko's that play defense, Sue for example, that would likely be locked in the slammer today if it had not been for football talent. What would he do facing Sue? Complain to the ref that Sue hit him too hard? The NFL is no place for the "can't we all just get along" crowd. I think it's doubtful that we'll ever see him on a NFL roster again.

 

I know a guy who was harrassed in high school. One day someone pushed him once to often. He burst into tears but then he started throwing punches. No one ever bothered him after that. There are times in life when you need to take a stand. That's how you gain respect. There are players in the league who now see this guy as a putz and would love to play against him because they know that when things get down and dirty, he will quit.

Your Sue analogy really sucks. This was about a TEAMATE abusing him,not an apposing player. The locker room is supposed to be a family atmosphere. He didn't quit the team, the organization quit on him. If he whined that Sue hit him too hard, then I can see your point, but IMO you are way off. Nothing like keyboard tough guys!!!

 

how about a hell no option.

 

I got text that said "persistence of vulgar language made him feel trapped"

 

are you serious? Man up tough guy. I work with trucker mouths and it's annoying but I'm not quitting my job for it.

 

Like I've said before, he is mentally weak and we don't need that here.

 

how about putting an option for Richie.

You probably can't afford to quit. You don't know enough to call him mentally weak. He played at a high level at Stanford and was a high draft pick after thorough investigations from NFL personnel. If they saw a mentally weak guy, he would not have been drafted that high.Oh how I love you keyboard tough guys.

Edited January 29, 2014 by Dopey

[thebandit27]

Considering Jim Harbaugh was his coach at Stanford, yes.

 

 

 

Rogers was considered a big bust in Washington. They also traded for Jonathan Baldwin, former 1st rounder of KC. They brought in Ted Ginn and Glenn Dorsey.

 

Some times, players just aren't good enough. But there is talent if you're drafted in the 1st 2nd rounds. Provided the player isn't a total scumbag and the cost is right, why not kick the tires? Hughes was considered a bust. And Manny Lawson has bounced around the league. Both played pretty well for us.

 

I don't ever remember Rogers being considered a bust, so I'll have to take your word on that (it's worth noting that I couldn't find any references to him being bust in a quick search).

 

The others (Baldwin, Ginn, Dorsey) had very little impact with the '9ers, although re-reading your original statement, it looks like you were simply saying that they're good at picking up former top picks, not that they necessarily get anything out of them.

 

As for the bold statement, what I've seen of Martin tells me that he falls into the "just not good enough" category.

 

Yes, absolutely. He's a football player and he quit his team. I want no part of that kind of softness on my team. There are known wacko's that play defense, Sue for example, that would likely be locked in the slammer today if it had not been for football talent. What would he do facing Sue? Complain to the ref that Sue hit him too hard? The NFL is no place for the "can't we all just get along" crowd. I think it's doubtful that we'll ever see him on a NFL roster again.

 

I know a guy who was harrassed in high school. One day someone pushed him once to often. He burst into tears but then he started throwing punches. No one ever bothered him after that. There are times in life when you need to take a stand. That's how you gain respect. There are players in the league who now see this guy as a putz and would love to play against him because they know that when things get down and dirty, he will quit.

 

Two sides to this: yes, he quit on his team, and that's unacceptable under most circumstances.

 

However, he obviously did so as his own version of taking a stand. Taking a stand doesn't mean he has to be violent or retaliate, it means he has to do something to change the situation. He may have gone to the team, and the team told him to toughen up or get over it; that's yet to be hashed out by the investigators.

 

Point is, I agree that he shouldn't have quit on his team, but that's with the caveat that what we've heard/seen/read is an accurate account of things. What if it isn't?

 

For me, it isn't about how he decided to deal with the situation, it's that he obviously has some emotional issues that either (a) caused this situation, (b) exacerbated the situation, or © resulted from the situation. I'm not looking for players with that kind of baggage, let alone ones that don't look the part with their on-field play.

[Dopey]

If the Colts with Andrew Luck or San Fran with his old college coach don't pick him up, then maybe there is more to this on Martin's part. That, to me would be a big indictment on Martin.

[C.Biscuit97]

If the Colts with Andrew Luck or San Fran with his old college coach don't pick him up, then maybe there is more to this on Martin's part. That, to me would be a big indictment on Martin.

 

Agree with this. It's like Marrone passing on Nassib. That said, the some of the people saying they don't want Martin, would be the first ones criticizing the Bills if the Colts pick him up and he plays well.