Jonathan Martin

[QB Bills]

 

 

Repectful? Go back and read some of JM's texts.

 

Also, when I was Martin's age, I was making 7 bucks an hour as a college grad, paying rent in a hovel with 2 other guys and saving up for applying for my next level of education. No matter how bad a big bully at work may have been, never in a million years would it occur to me (at 24, a grown man) to call my father about my workplace issues so that he may intervene. I'm sure my experience is the same as that of many here.

 

It's just hard for me to summon much outrage over a guy who gets paid millions to play a game who is asking us to validate his arrested maturity. Just entertain us with the football fellas. Your personal lives aren't as compelling as the game you play.

Come on man. You're one of the best glass half-empty posters on here. I mean that in a good way, honest.

 

Don't fall into the "if that was me, I'd have..." line of thought that plagues this issue.

 

The fact that he was willing to walk away from all those millions you refer to because of this should help you understand how handcuffed he felt.

[FireChan]

 

Come on man. You're one of the best glass half-empty posters on here. I mean that in a good way, honest.

 

Don't fall into the "if that was me, I'd have..." line of thought that plagues this issue.

 

The fact that he was willing to walk away from all those millions you refer to because of this should help you understand how handcuffed he felt.

 

So now running away from your problems is courageous, who'd have thought the NFL would bring us that message?

[Mr. WEO]

Come on man. You're one of the best glass half-empty posters on here. I mean that in a good way, honest.

 

Don't fall into the "if that was me, I'd have..." line of thought that plagues this issue.

 

The fact that he was willing to walk away from all those millions you refer to because of this should help you understand how handcuffed he felt.

 

First, I doubt my experience is different from almost any poster here. The point is that this is all very banal for the vast majority of people who have real problems to work out themselves--without the millions of dollars and a national stage to share your problems/seek approval.

 

Also, MArtin didn't walk away from the money. He was still getting paid while he was absent as far as I can tell

[QB Bills]

First, I doubt my experience is different from almost any poster here. The point is that this is all very banal for the vast majority of people who have real problems to work out themselves--without the millions of dollars and a national stage to share your problems/seek approval.

 

Also, MArtin didn't walk away from the money. He was still getting paid while he was absent as far as I can tell

So you don't consider what he dealt with a real problem? And the fact he has millions of dollars should somehow afford him less empathy? That's ridiculous. And where are you getting him using the national stage to seek approval? I don't remember anything like that happening.

 

As for walking away from the money...he may have collected his salary last year, but going forward, he knowingly put his career, and therefore, earning power at risk. And he's not throwing away a five figure salary by quitting like any other random guy in his mid-20s.

 

Regardless of whether you or anyone else would have handled it differently is not up for debate here. He didn't have it in his mental makeup to confront the guy and felt helpless. Unless you lack basic empathy, how can anyone feel anything but bad for him?

 

So now running away from your problems is courageous, who'd have thought the NFL would bring us that message?

Who said anything about courageous? Some people are just born without that confrontational gene. He doesn't need to be vilified because of it. Its not like he did himself any favours by leaving the team.

 

Btw, Chan got fired over a year ago.

[Rico]

 

 

First, I doubt my experience is different from almost any poster here. The point is that this is all very banal for the vast majority of people who have real problems to work out themselves--without the millions of dollars and a national stage to share your problems/seek approval.

 

Also, MArtin didn't walk away from the money. He was still getting paid while he was absent as far as I can tell

Not only did he not walk away from the money, he can look forward to a huge payday in court, his ambulance-chasing mother will see to that.

[RuntheDamnBall]

The line coach sounds like a horrific a--hole. People can see the Incognito / Martin faceoff the way they want to, but Incognito's true colors are shown in the way that he dealt with the Asian-American staffer. I'm not sorry for saying that that should be grounds for termination. If you want to use football and its culture as a cover for the way you act towards fellow players, I don't buy it, but fine. You all can settle it on the field. Incognito was a designated team leader treating multiple team employees like sh--. Internet tough guys may think this makes him more of a football player, but I see a guy who has been employed by multiple organizations low on the NFL food chain. I can't see SF, SEA, NE or any winning organization thinking that this kind of behavior is key to a winning identity. Belicheck certainly tells guys to suck it up and get with the program, but it ain't like this.

 

JM has his issues and they may make him unfit for football, but I'll also back up those who say that it's easier to go with the flow than to get in the line of fire, and it seems pretty clear that's what was going on here.

 

Not only did he not walk away from the money, he can look forward to a huge payday in court, his ambulance-chasing mother will see to that.

A workplace attorney who specializes in harrassment is an ambulance chaser? Where do you guys get this stuff? I'm not necessarily defending her line of work, but at least be accurate in your character assassinations.

[Prickly Pete]

These are 2 guys at the opposite extremes, and neither are developed enough to play NFL football. Incognito had some success, but I guess it's a matter of "err on the side of aggression". It eventually caught up to him.

 

I wouldn't want either of these clowns on the Bills.

[Buftex]

Link, or proof? I'd like to know how it is known that he is a crazy person? Maybe an !@#$ and a prick, but that doesn't mean he's crazy. He's got 50 lbs. on me probably and I'd take him on.

 

I guess I am one of the internet tough guys to think I wouldn't have tolerated anyone, myself or my kids being treated this way. If my kid sent me a message saying he was being bullied I'd reply the first few times saying the "there, there, son, come on, it's ok, just know you're better then that, turn the other cheek and smile." After the third or fourth I'd tell him to knock the dudes in the dirt.

 

Not every college locker room is the same and on many different levels it is approached entirely differently. Star athletes get a whole different level of treatment. DIII athletes who just are roster fodder, even if starting, can be treated well but not cared about. D1 is not much different. There are the top 30 or so players, then there are the top 3 or 4, then there is everyone else. It's free game there and just like a high school girls volleyball team. Clicks, drama and individuality. Some kids like Sci-Fi and The Hobbit. Others Jay-Z and Kung-Fu.

 

Saying the environment is toxic and blaming Incognito without blaming Martin is a cheap way to throw stones at the entire ugly mess. Both are idiots, one is labeled weak and one is labeled an !@#$. But, both are weak, both are !@#$s and both are idiots.

 

And, I would challenge any of them to a fight. I am the toughest dude on the internet, former Navy SEAL, I was top of my class. I am the countries number 1 sharpshooter and right now I have a network of secret agents at my disposal ready to do my dirty work. So, challenge me any of you...I'll bring a world of hurt down.

 

 

Which is pretty much what Martins' father told him. Sorry, I think some folks here are just incapable of seeing beyond their own nose.

 

What I find most interesting in all this is the peek into the mental makeup of TBD posters. No surprise that most are sane and rational, but it is kind of depressing that there are still such a number of antediluvian types roaming the savannahs of WNY. I mean, the "locker rooms are for real men not pussys" attitude, the "if you can't take racism, psychotic threats and extortion, it's because the world is too damned PC," and the classic "they're making a big deal out of nothing but some good ol' boys having fun." Whoa!

 

[oman128]

Ill bet you the Patriots select one of them and turn them around, or at least get them to do things the Patriot way.

 

Richie sounds like a Raiders thowback ftom the 70's

Lyle Alzado.

Edited February 15, 2014 by oman128

[FireChan]

 

So you don't consider what he dealt with a real problem? And the fact he has millions of dollars should somehow afford him less empathy? That's ridiculous. And where are you getting him using the national stage to seek approval? I don't remember anything like that happening.

 

As for walking away from the money...he may have collected his salary last year, but going forward, he knowingly put his career, and therefore, earning power at risk. And he's not throwing away a five figure salary by quitting like any other random guy in his mid-20s.

 

Regardless of whether you or anyone else would have handled it differently is not up for debate here. He didn't have it in his mental makeup to confront the guy and felt helpless. Unless you lack basic empathy, how can anyone feel anything but bad for him?

 

 

Who said anything about courageous? Some people are just born without that confrontational gene. He doesn't need to be vilified because of it. Its not like he did himself any favours by leaving the team.

 

Btw, Chan got fired over a year ago.

 

If he doesn't have the "confrontational" gene, do you think he'll be a good football player?

[NoSaint]

 

 

If he doesn't have the "confrontational" gene, do you think he'll be a good football player?

 

With some medication and therapy who knows- leaving the "confrontational gene" out of it, the guy seems to suffer from genuine depression that could change rapidly depending on cause/treatment. Physically, he's talented. A good example of a player in a tailspin due to mental health that's put it all together seemingly would be Brandon Marshall. Different diagnosis but mental health nonetheless, and can be treated just like any other injury, or can get worse if untreated.

 

This thread has me thinking of a few departed posters that have dealt with clinical depression and hopefully they will pop up and share their experiences.

 

I wouldn't bet on Martin to figure it out fast enough as he has a long way to go not just off but on the field too in a short window.... But it's possible he does.

 

Really the only constant you can count on in this story, that I'm confident has been the same 20 years and will be another 20 is RI being a jerk

Edited February 15, 2014 by NoSaint

[boyst]

Which is pretty much what Martins' father told him. Sorry, I think some folks here are just incapable of seeing beyond their own nose.

 

 

 

I think I understood what you actually meant, but it applies to Martin more aptly. If he would have looked he would have seen many and better options.

 

His parents and their response was vastly different then I initially expected and makes the situation very bizzare.

[dave mcbride]

Not only did he not walk away from the money, he can look forward to a huge payday in court, his ambulance-chasing mother will see to that.

Link?

[Buftex]

I think I understood what you actually meant, but it applies to Martin more aptly. If he would have looked he would have seen many and better options.

 

His parents and their response was vastly different then I initially expected and makes the situation very bizzare.

 

I am not sure how much you read, but I think most healthy minded adults would agree, there were other, better, options...but depression is a powerful thing that overpowers logic and reason. It is painfully evident, that Martin was tail spinning into a darker hole as this thing went on...few people who suffer depression can simply "stop being depressed" because the depression is hurting them. It is like telling someone that has cancer to "stop dying from cancer".

 

I found the comments from his parents, especially his father pretty gut wrenching. It almost seems as if race played a role in Martins "non-confrontational" persona...his father admits that he had to deal with the same thing as a younger man...often looking the other way, or pretending things didn't bother him so as not to make waves in their more affluent surroundings. His father tells him that he was able to suck it up, and ignore, or work around racial taunts....but when the younger Martin tells his father of crude comments made about his sister and mother, the elder Martin tells his son to kick him in the balls....or something along those lines. Hearing ex-NFLers comment, most agree that this kind of stuff goes on to a degree, but almost all point to some imaginary line that "you just don't go over"...and all agree that Incognito, Pouncey and Jim Turner went well over that line... comments about his sister and mother were pretty outrageous. There is honor, even among thieves....

 

I think Incognito is a first class !@#$ (as his series of tweets are not helping him, as he seems to haven't a clue that he holds any culpability in any of this), but it seems that this inferiority complex that Martin has was likely cultivated long before he became a Miami Dolphin. That doesn't mean to say that a professional adult shouldn't be able to go to work (no matter how much money he makes) and be subjected to the bs that Martin was, from other, allegedly adult, professionals.

Edited February 15, 2014 by Buftex

[CSBill]

I really can't believe there are people on this board saying they would rather have Incognito. SERIOUSLY !?!?

 

That guy is pure cancer to a team, any team!

 

Did you see what he tweeted out the day before the report came out. Showed his true colors. Up to that point, he had said all the right things, but as soon as he was exposed for the self-centered, moron that he is, his true self came flooding out.

 

Come on people, I know all of you are way more intelligent than this clown. Please show it.

 

Jonathan Martin might not be a good fit in Buffalo (although, personally, I would like to see what he could do at a guard spot—to me, I think he has always been more physically suited for that); but, if he can be had cheaply, the risk would be minimal, and the reward would be through the roof.

 

Moreover, I think the character that I have seen from the Bills locker room leaders is pretty high (admittedly, I don't have anything close to an insider view—this is just speculation on my part)—I think, most would not want a RI in there, and if JM proved to be a player whom wanted to work hard and contribute, he would be embraced.

 

But again, put your brains on, protect your own reputation, keep some level of dignity and pride, and don't even think about typing out some lame thing about making the team better with a guy like RI --- he makes no team better, never has, and never will. YES! Character does matter!

 

I am not sure how much you read, but I think most healthy minded adults would agree, there were other, better, options...but depression is a powerful thing that overpowers logic and reason. It is painfully evident, that Martin was tail spinning into a darker hole as this thing went on...few people who suffer depression can simply "stop being depressed" because the depression is hurting them. It is like telling someone that has cancer to "stop dying from cancer".

 

I found the comments from his parents, especially his father pretty gut wrenching. It almost seems as if race played a role in Martins "non-confrontational" persona...his father admits that he had to deal with the same thing as a younger man...often looking the other way, or pretending things didn't bother him so as not to make waves in their more affluent surroundings. His father tells him that he was able to suck it up, and ignore, or work around racial taunts....but when the younger Martin tells his father of crude comments made about his sister and mother, the elder Martin tells his son to kick him in the balls....or something along those lines. Hearing ex-NFLers comment, most agree that this kind of stuff goes on to a degree, but almost all point to some imaginary line that "you just don't go over"...and all agree that Incognito, Pouncey and Jim Turner went well over that line... comments about his sister and mother were pretty outrageous. There is honor, even among thieves....

 

I think Incognito is a first class !@#$ (as his series of tweets are not helping him, as he seems to haven't a clue that he holds any culpability in any of this), but it seems that this inferiority complex that Martin has was likely cultivated long before he became a Miami Dolphin. That doesn't mean to say that a professional adult shouldn't be able to go to work (no matter how much money he makes) and be subjected to the bs that Martin was, from other, allegedly adult, professionals.

 

Thanks Buftex, for restoring my faith in the general decency and intelligence of the folks of TBD

 

What I find most interesting in all this is the peek into the mental makeup of TBD posters. No surprise that most are sane and rational, but it is kind of depressing that there are still such a number of antediluvian types roaming the savannahs of WNY. I mean, the "locker rooms are for real men not pussys" attitude, the "if you can't take racism, psychotic threats and extortion, it's because the world is too damned PC," and the classic "they're making a big deal out of nothing but some good ol' boys having fun." Whoa!

 

sad, very sad

Edited February 15, 2014 by CSBill

[Justice]

Just guessing here, based on my time I spent in inner-cities, I'd assume NFL lockerooms would rather have RI than Martin. Snitches aren't respected in the hood.

 

Personally, I don't want either one.

Edited February 15, 2014 by NoJustice

[ColdBlueNorth]

I hope you are right and someone at least gives him a chance to show what he can do in camp. Maybe if he was more stable emotionally his play would improve, because it needs to if he is going to have a long term NFL future. I suspect that having all of a player's insecurities laid bare infront of the world will again be a red flag to a lot of organisations though. I hope Martin is getting the help he needs and I hope that if he feels ready to come back to the NFL and try again then there is a team out there at least willing to give him a shot.

 

Interesting that I have heard a lot of talk about how weak Martin is or was... I think it takes some serious stones to do what he did. Walk away from an NFL team, contract, reputation, face retaliation from the league, player's union, the public, and from players that most now understand from the independent report who were very capable of being retaliatory. How many "mentally-strong" guys have just caved in and accepted being Richie's B word to fit into his dysfunctional f'd-up locker room?

Edited February 15, 2014 by ColdBlueNorth

[KGUNBILLS]

Like Tebow, we don't need any circus acts.

[starrymessenger]

I don't know that Martin could be a good guard.

The mindset of a good guard is badass (though not psycho like Ritchie).

Martin doesn't seem to be wired for that.

He looks to be TJ Graham in an O-lineman's body.

Sort of unfortunate.

[3rdand12]

what an interesting social experience this has been.

On two levels that I can recognize.

The Miami Dolphins and what the hell goes on down there .

And TBD posters in how folks lined up.

I did not take notes about us here as individuals, but certainly has been an interesting read.

Some amazingly well thought out opines here and some revealing perceptions and thoughts to a totally awful and extremely bizarre situation .

How many wrong steps did/can the Dolphins make ?

I dont know because i am still counting !!

Edited February 15, 2014 by 3rdand12