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Jonathan Martin

johnwalter

By johnwalter
in The Stadium Wall Archives

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215 members have voted

  1. 1. Would you like to see 1BD acquire Jonathan Martin for the 2014 season?

    • Yes, he is a good but inexpensive player that can fill a hole on the Bills roster.
      105
    • No, the Bills have a strong locker room and Martin would put the team's chemistry at risk.
      110

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DC Tom Hall of Famer

DC Tom

Posted
Posted

I believe it's a part of the factory that makes participation trophies.

 

I thought maybe it was Parris Island, but nowadays that's probably considered bullying itself.

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26CornerBlitz Hall of Famer

26CornerBlitz

Posted
Posted (edited)

‏@nbcnightlynews

Miami Dolphins investigation finds Incognito, 2 others engaged in 'pattern of harassment' against Martin, others http://nbcnews.to/1f14WwE

 

@AdamSchefter

Now that NFL has implicated Richie Incognito, Mike Pouncey, John Jerry, Roger Goodell will review report before making any further decisions

 

@AlbertBreer

Here is the NFL's statement on the release of the Wells report: “Our office has received the report of ... http://tmi.me/1dHB2r

Edited by 26CornerBlitz
NoSaint Hall of Famer

NoSaint

Posted
Posted

 

and i wouldnt expect the nfl to accept that as the case going forward. i dont think itll be 100% cleaned up, but the leagues lawyers will push hard to remind people that the locker room is a workplace and that just saying "boys will be boys" doesnt afford them any legal protection.

NoSaint Hall of Famer

NoSaint

Posted
Posted (edited)

http://deadspin.com/the-messages-from-jonathan-martin-to-his-parents-are-he-1522865373

 

deadspin is highlighting letters between martin and his parents and i think they cut to the core of the issue here:

 

I figured out a major source of my anxiety. I'm a push over, a people pleaser. I avoid confrontation whenever I can, I always want everyone to like me. I let people talk about me, say anything to my face, and I just take it, laugh it off, even when I know they are intentionally trying to disrespect me. I mostly blame the soft schools I went to, which fostered within me a feeling that I'm a huge kitty, as I never got into fights. I used to get verbally bullied every day in middle school and high school, by kids that are half my size. I would never fight back, just get sad & feel like no one wanted to be my friend, when in fact I was just being socially awkward. Most people in that situation are witty & quick with sarcastic replies, I never have been. I'm awkward around people a lot of the time because I simply don't know how to act around them . . .

 

and

 

People call me a N***** to my face. Happened 2 days ago. And I laughed it off. Because I am too nice of a person. They say terrible things about my sister. I don't do anything. I suppose it's white private school conditioning, turning the other cheek.

 

and

 

I have really severe depression. There are many instances where I can't get out of bed. . . . I'm really embarrassed to talk about it with anyone in person, I tried to with you when I was home but I couldn't do it. I've managed to keep it under control for the most part on my own. Anyways, I really do wanna take care of it, because it is debilitating & keeps me from reaching my potential in all facets of life.

 

 

as a few of the many examples at the link between he and his parents. the guy was dealing with a lot of his own issues and having RI act like an idiot, and the team blow him off.... bad situation all around. another sad piece to come out:

 

In May, Martin's father had what the report describes as a "father-to-father" conversation with Dolphins head coach Joe Philbin about Martin, during which Philbin assured Martin's father that team would do whatever it could to help Martin.

 

given the team kind of played dumb and said they had no idea martin was having issues when it first broke.... obviously your dad going to your employer is an awkward situation, but... youd think that itd be a wake up call that all is not well and to call off RI, and MP, or atleast the coaching staff, and the GM would have more to say than "just beat the guy up" when approached about it all later that year.

Edited by NoSaint
GunnerBill Hall of Famer

GunnerBill

Posted
Posted

As I said weeks ago I think this is the end for Incognito. He is done. Whilst I wouldn't call the report entirely conclusive it does enough to put most General Managers if not all off the idea of introducing a character like Incognito into their locker room.

 

I suspect it's probably the end for Martin too.

NoSaint Hall of Famer

NoSaint

Posted
Posted (edited)

http://deadspin.com/dolphins-line-kept-a-fine-book-incognito-tried-to-de-1522877536

 

and they kept a "fine book" for the OLine, which RI tried to get teammates to destroy, for anything from farting ($100) to richie being entered at a $250 fine for breaking jmart, and another teammate that is described as "Nate is on the verge of killing us all. Since we cut [another player] we have been non stop on nate. Even turner is in on it. He looks like he's about to cry 24/7." getting a $250 bonus for not cracking first.... im sure plenty of teams keep similar as jokes, but in hindsight this probably wasnt the right group of guys.

 

also covers martins $10k fine for not attending the vegas trip.

Edited by NoSaint
GA BILLS FAN RFA

GA BILLS FAN

Posted
Posted

I took the time to read the entire report. In a nutshell, my opinion is that RI, JJ and MP bullied several players and at least one coach (trainer) who were weaker then they were mentally. This entire episode is a straight forward case of bullying. I think the big question isn't whether or not JM was bullied (and the others), it's whether bullying is acceptable in the NFL even though it is not outside the NFL. It comes down to that. A lot of people will argue a 300+ pound man that plays in the NFL should be tougher mentally or he should get out of the league. While I think it's worthy of a debate and while I can respect that some would side with the RI, JJ and MP crowd, I'm not one of them.

C.Biscuit97 Hall of Famer

C.Biscuit97

Posted
Posted

As I said weeks ago I think this is the end for Incognito. He is done. Whilst I wouldn't call the report entirely conclusive it does enough to put most General Managers if not all off the idea of introducing a character like Incognito into their locker room.

 

I suspect it's probably the end for Martin too.

 

I think Martin becomes a player in this league. I'm definitely in the minority but if the guy has any backbone, he'll use this to grow stronger as a person.

GunnerBill Hall of Famer

GunnerBill

Posted
Posted

I took the time to read the entire report. In a nutshell, my opinion is that RI, JJ and MP bullied several players and at least one coach (trainer) who were weaker then they were mentally. This entire episode is a straight forward case of bullying. I think the big question isn't whether or not JM was bullied (and the others), it's whether bullying is acceptable in the NFL even though it is not outside the NFL. It comes down to that. A lot of people will argue a 300+ pound man that plays in the NFL should be tougher mentally or he should get out of the league. While I think it's worthy of a debate and while I can respect that some would side with the RI, JJ and MP crowd, I'm not one of them.

 

Well put sir. I haven't yet read the full thing but what I've read it seems very clear that they bullied Jonathan Martin.... the issue is the extent to which what happened is unusual int he NFL. Maybe this is the watershed moment where a culture change occurs.

C.Biscuit97 Hall of Famer

C.Biscuit97

Posted
Posted

Well put sir. I haven't yet read the full thing but what I've read it seems very clear that they bullied Jonathan Martin.... the issue is the extent to which what happened is unusual int he NFL. Maybe this is the watershed moment where a culture change occurs.

 

good point. Hopefully with this Martin thing and Michael Sam, the NFL will become more tolerate. You can be a man without being a prick.

John from Riverside Hall of Famer

John from Riverside

Posted
Posted

Forgive me if I am wrong but.....wasnt Ingognito considered a bad egg when he was here? (despite the fact that he was a good player?)

 

And he didnt stay here long.....long maybe his attitude wasnt tolerated here.....and maybe it would be a better environment for Martin.

 

I take a look at this situation and I think our Center Wood would be just the kind of support mentor that could take a Martin under his wing.

NoSaint Hall of Famer

NoSaint

Posted
Posted

Forgive me if I am wrong but.....wasnt Ingognito considered a bad egg when he was here? (despite the fact that he was a good player?)

 

And he didnt stay here long.....long maybe his attitude wasnt tolerated here.....and maybe it would be a better environment for Martin.

 

I take a look at this situation and I think our Center Wood would be just the kind of support mentor that could take a Martin under his wing.

 

he was claimed on waivers after the rams cut him in december of the final year of his rookie contract (after all kinds of issues on and off the field). he was only hear about 3 weeks and we opted not to tender him as a restricted free agent at the close of the season. id guess that was probably a pretty rocky stretch for RI.

Hplarrm RFA

Hplarrm

Posted
Posted

It seems clear from the summaries of the Wells report that:

 

Incognito- The big loser here id'ed as the prime actor and initiator of a number of foul acts which are totally inconsistent with being a good teammate, good person, and the Band of Brothers which is an NFL OL. Definitely a toxic element to be avoided in all cases.

 

Fins- Did not maintain an appropriate workplace and needs to take some specific actions to demonstrate appropriate control. Martin did not officially report problems which lets them off the hook somewhat. Probably will need to decide whether to deal with asst. OL coach Turner charitably or blame him for team miscues.

 

Pouncey and other player idiots- no intent for permanent damage but idiots fell to sway if idiot Incignito who alsi had no permanent intent but still was prime idiot.

 

Martin- sad pathetic case not at fault like Incignito but clearly will need a ton of care and feeding which I would not invest in if I were Bills. Talent and size might make him a reasonable risk for a splid OL but not young Bills.

 

 

 

 

 

GunnerBill Hall of Famer

GunnerBill

Posted
Posted

I think Martin becomes a player in this league. I'm definitely in the minority but if the guy has any backbone, he'll use this to grow stronger as a person.

 

I hope you are right and someone at least gives him a chance to show what he can do in camp. Maybe if he was more stable emotionally his play would improve, because it needs to if he is going to have a long term NFL future. I suspect that having all of a player's insecurities laid bare infront of the world will again be a red flag to a lot of organisations though. I hope Martin is getting the help he needs and I hope that if he feels ready to come back to the NFL and try again then there is a team out there at least willing to give him a shot.

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