Jonathan Martin

[YoloinOhio]

It wasn't just those guys, who I would have discounted. It was the rest of the team mates, including guys not on the OL, white & black, and from guys who were no longer with the organization. There was very little reason for them to fall in line with Dolphins if they were trying to spin the story in their favor. It was a near unanimous backing for Incognito. That was the major disconnect for me.

 

As for Wood, remember he also came to Richie's defense when Jay Skurski interviewed him. Again, ample opportunity for Wood to dish out dirt. But he didn't.

 

So that's not to say that Incognito didn't have a major part in the meltdown. But it certainly didn't seem to be as blatantly one-sided as the reporters rushed out to feed the story.

I thought I read somewhere Wood thought poorly of RI when he was here. Since he is a captain, he would be more candid with the FO and Marrone if they considered signing him. Maybe he would say go for it though and they can handle him.

[Malazan]

13 pages on whether we should sign Jonathan "turnstile" Martin. This is going to be a loooooooong offseason for TBD.

[GG]

I thought I read somewhere Wood thought poorly of RI when he was here. Since he is a captain, he would be more candid with the FO and Marrone if they considered signing him. Maybe he would say go for it though and they can handle him.

 

Actually, more of the opposite.

[C.Biscuit97]

Actually, more of the opposite.

 

http://www.buffalorumblings.com/2013/11/5/5068272/buffalo-bills-eric-wood-rookie-hazing-richie-incognito

 

Not really a ringing endorsement, but also didn't say RI was awful here. Wood was injured when RI was here too.

 

Look, karma is real and it caught up with a guy who did a lot of crappy things. The only thing this new "evidence" changes my opinion on is Martin. We'll see if either get another shot in the league.

[Direhard Fan]

Changed my mind. Changed my vote after hearing the texts as of late. He is a problem CHILD in a mans body. Don't need problems like him.

[GG]

 

 

http://www.buffalorumblings.com/2013/11/5/5068272/buffalo-bills-eric-wood-rookie-hazing-richie-incognito

 

Not really a ringing endorsement, but also didn't say RI was awful here. Wood was injured when RI was here too.

 

Look, karma is real and it caught up with a guy who did a lot of crappy things. The only thing this new "evidence" changes my opinion on is Martin. We'll see if either get another shot in the league.

 

This is the article I was talking about. http://blogs.buffalonews.com/press-coverage/2013/11/eric-wood-has-followed-richie-incognito-story-from-afar.html Note how Skurski wrote the piece as a defacto indictment of incognito.

 

Now that more of the story is coming out, people are reassessing their views on the incident. Do you think the professional scribes will do the same, or will they fall into the same trap that because incognito is a PoS, it was OK to trash him.

[NoSaint]

 

 

Are Pouncey (Free Hernandez) or Bryant McKinnie (Love Boat captain) really solid sources? Fact is if you act like a giant idiot (RI) and surround yourself by shaky guys, you lose the benefit of the doubt.

 

If it was Eric Wood who was accused of this, I'd be shocked. But it's a dude who has a shady history. And I'm still not ready to call RI innocent either. But I might be wrong in not thinking Martin had a lot more issues than I thought.

 

i already took my medicine on this, but yea, many of us said given RIs track record, coupled with the track record of several of the guys around it, the suspension, the content released by martin, the lack of content released by incognito, the reports of martin going to team officials and being told he should punch RI, the reports that RI was possibly told to toughen JM up, the in hindsight incorrect reports of the financial issues with the trip, the additional events around RI that have come out contradicting the "bad guy gone good, but still an intense player" image and the fact the Martin didnt have any track record in his past known or reported..... that martin likely didnt handle it great, but that the situation with incognito was probably worse than its coming across as at this point.

 

ill take my slice of crow on that one, and remind weo we are still a long way away from knowing what actually happened - and that even if martin was a participant, it was at best still a ridiculous situation for BOTH parties involved.

 

I thought I read somewhere Wood thought poorly of RI when he was here. Since he is a captain, he would be more candid with the FO and Marrone if they considered signing him. Maybe he would say go for it though and they can handle him.

 

to be fair, incognito was here for only 3 weeks. and that we didnt extend even a tender to him as an RFA likely says something about how that time went, but given the change in coaches, and obvious change in RIs situation, who knows... i wouldnt expect it but ive been surprised by stranger things many times.

Edited February 5, 2014 by NoSaint

[thewildrabbit]

Jonathan Martin, I wouldn't touch him even if he were the very last OT on earth.

 

Here is why, NFL O linemen are needed to have quite toughness, and a mean steak. Not bail on the team because someone is bullying them. Me personally, I'd find a way to get the guy alone and settle our differences one on one.

 

This wasn't just a question of RI giving the guy a hard time, as it was the entire offense was getting on him for playing so poorly. Martin graded as a bad player! What I don't get is why some of you refuse to understand this.

 

 

As far as Richie Incognito goes, is he a good NFL OG? You bet! But is he worth the trouble to bring him into a young team? No way! The guy has been a ticking time bomb every where he played, and he had played in Buffalo longer it would have shown up here too.

 

C'mon guys, this team deserves better then Miami Dolphin cast offs!

[Mr. WEO]

i already took my medicine on this, but yea, many of us said given RIs track record, coupled with the track record of several of the guys around it, the suspension, the content released by martin, the lack of content released by incognito, the reports of martin going to team officials and being told he should punch RI, the reports that RI was possibly told to toughen JM up, the in hindsight incorrect reports of the financial issues with the trip, the additional events around RI that have come out contradicting the "bad guy gone good, but still an intense player" image and the fact the Martin didnt have any track record in his past known or reported..... that martin likely didnt handle it great, but that the situation with incognito was probably worse than its coming across as at this point.

 

ill take my slice of crow on that one, and remind weo we are still a long way away from knowing what actually happened - and that even if martin was a participant, it was at best still a ridiculous situation for BOTH parties involved.

 

 

 

to be fair, incognito was here for only 3 weeks. and that we didnt extend even a tender to him as an RFA likely says something about how that time went, but given the change in coaches, and obvious change in RIs situation, who knows... i wouldnt expect it but ive been surprised by stranger things many times.

 

You, my friend, need not eat crow. It will likely turn out that Martin staged this bizarre "bullyed breakdown" simply because his status on the team (in the lineup) changed and he also found out he wasn't nearly as good as he was told he was at Stanford. Instead of taking his place on the depth chart, he concocted this whole "attack" story--nurtured it, developed it over time. He had the perfect mark in Incognito--a league-wide known meathead and played poor Richie perfectly--saving all those "shocking" texts and voicemails he goaded RI (without much push, no doubt) into sending. He "went to the FO"--who no doubt looked at him like he had 2 heads when he said he was getting bullied and they tossed him out of the office with the suggestion to pop RI in the teeth---which he no doubt quickly entered in a diary for later presentation to some future league investigator.

 

Turns out Martin wasn't too clever afterall.

 

Perhaps the bottom line is "who cares" what happened? These are grown men. Let them wallow in their culture as they entertain us.

[KD in CA]

13 pages on whether we should sign Jonathan "turnstile" Martin. This is going to be a loooooooong offseason for TBD.

 

Is there any other kind? Just wait till the draft talk ramps up!

[RuntheDamnBall]

You, my friend, need not eat crow. It will likely turn out that Martin staged this bizarre "bullyed breakdown" simply because his status on the team (in the lineup) changed and he also found out he wasn't nearly as good as he was told he was at Stanford. Instead of taking his place on the depth chart, he concocted this whole "attack" story--nurtured it, developed it over time. He had the perfect mark in Incognito--a league-wide known meathead and played poor Richie perfectly--saving all those "shocking" texts and voicemails he goaded RI (without much push, no doubt) into sending. He "went to the FO"--who no doubt looked at him like he had 2 heads when he said he was getting bullied and they tossed him out of the office with the suggestion to pop RI in the teeth---which he no doubt quickly entered in a diary for later presentation to some future league investigator.

 

Turns out Martin wasn't too clever afterall.

 

Perhaps the bottom line is "who cares" what happened? These are grown men. Let them wallow in their culture as they entertain us.

Can I vote for "they're all idiots?"

[JayD]

Define "good player" because I'm pretty sure he was bordering on terrible

He is not bordering on terrible he is TERRIBLE!

[YoloinOhio]

http://www.cbssports...tter-deletes-it

 

Incognito insults Martin's agent on Twitter, the deletes it.... someone needs to tell Richie to lay low on the old Twitter for awhile

Edited February 6, 2014 by YoloinOhio

[Mr. WEO]

http://www.cbssports...tter-deletes-it

 

Incognito insults Martin's agent on Twitter, the deletes it.... someone needs to tell Richie to lay low on the old Twitter for awhile

 

Those tweets were pretty lame and tame--especially the second one.

 

This "story" of tweeting is an attempt at the press, which jumped all over RI (and gulped down the whole "bully victim" Martin angle), to climb out of the hole they are slipping into as this story, literally, unravels.

[DC Tom]

I got text that said "persistence of vulgar language made him feel trapped"

 

Seriously?

 

Forget the Bills, he wouldn't even make it on this !@#$ing board.

[ColdBlueNorth]

Martin is a good versatile O-Lineman who decided not to stick around and be Incognito's B word forever. It is not a surprise that Richie crossed the line, he has been doing that since he came into the league.

 

I don't care what happened in the Miami locker room and neither will the Bills if they can get some help along the O-line.

 

Miami's loss can be our gain - that's a win/win in my book.

[thebandit27]

Martin is a good versatile O-Lineman who decided not to stick around and be Incognito's B word forever. It is not a surprise that Richie crossed the line, he has been doing that since he came into the league.

 

I don't care what happened in the Miami locker room and neither will the Bills if they can get some help along the O-line.

 

Miami's loss can be our gain - that's a win/win in my book.

 

Obviously you are entitled to your opinion--I haven't seen anything to suggest that Martin is either good or versatile.

 

I also don't agree with your take on the situation after seeing what info has been made available to the public.

[Charlottesville Bills Fan]

You left out the third option - No, because he's not really good.

HAHA. I was going to post the exact same thing. Well said.

 

THIS!!! Plus... Option 4: This poll is offensive, so I'm taking my things and leaving

[ColdBlueNorth]

Obviously you are entitled to your opinion--I haven't seen anything to suggest that Martin is either good or versatile.

 

I also don't agree with your take on the situation after seeing what info has been made available to the public.

 

Well, I think it is a case of an affluent young man who comes from a good family not wanting to play in the gutter with Richie. Also, I look at Martin's history and Richie's and I am afraid that I don't see anything in Martin's past that shows he is a problem child, and Incognito's is chock full of crap. There is nothing about this hazing BS between a new player and a veteran that just went too far that tells me Martin cannot play at a high level in this league. Forget all that beer-guzzling, chest thumping, macho BS the kid has size and talent as an offensive linemen and would likely be an upgrade to most of the linemen the Bills have grabbed off the scrap heap.

 

NFL Draft analysis of Martin:

Overview

 

Martin is one of two tackle prospects in this year's class who could be called elite, and given the value of the position will be a likely first-round pick because of it. He embodied all that Stanford football was throughout his time there, as he is an aggressive, smart, technically sound prospect who will enter the league at a stage in his development where he should be able to contribute immediately.

Analysis

 

Strengths

 

Martin has prototypical skills for the position. He missed just two games in his career and is extremely tough. He carries his weight well and is one of the most technically sound prospects in the draft. He has a smooth, efficient pass set that allows him to get a solid base and work from a balanced state. He is powerful and aggressive against the run and has good footwork for his size. Martin was the anchor of a very polished offensive line and is simply an NFL-ready tackle.

 

At Stanford he played left tackle for that unknown QB... Andrew Luck. Protecting Luck's blind side, Luck was only sacked 9 times in 2011. The Dolphins felt good enough about him at the beginning of last season to move him from the right tackle position they had him playing to left replacing aging pro-bowler Jake Long. The Dolphins were a shambles without him in the lineup and even worse when Incognito had to sit out - none of that bothered me in the least.

[FireChan]

Well, I think it is a case of an affluent young man who comes from a good family not wanting to play in the gutter with Richie. Also, I look at Martin's history and Richie's and I am afraid that I don't see anything in Martin's past that shows he is a problem child, and Incognito's is chock full of crap. There is nothing about this hazing BS between a new player and a veteran that just went too far that tells me Martin cannot play at a high level in this league. Forget all that beer-guzzling, chest thumping, macho BS the kid has size and talent as an offensive linemen and would likely be an upgrade to most of the linemen the Bills have grabbed off the scrap heap.

 

NFL Draft analysis of Martin:

Overview

 

Martin is one of two tackle prospects in this year's class who could be called elite, and given the value of the position will be a likely first-round pick because of it. He embodied all that Stanford football was throughout his time there, as he is an aggressive, smart, technically sound prospect who will enter the league at a stage in his development where he should be able to contribute immediately.

Analysis

 

Strengths

 

Martin has prototypical skills for the position. He missed just two games in his career and is extremely tough. He carries his weight well and is one of the most technically sound prospects in the draft. He has a smooth, efficient pass set that allows him to get a solid base and work from a balanced state. He is powerful and aggressive against the run and has good footwork for his size. Martin was the anchor of a very polished offensive line and is simply an NFL-ready tackle.

 

At Stanford he played left tackle for that unknown QB... Andrew Luck. Protecting Luck's blind side, Luck was only sacked 9 times in 2011. The Dolphins felt good enough about him at the beginning of last season to move him from the right tackle position they had him playing to left replacing aging pro-bowler Jake Long. The Dolphins were a shambles without him in the lineup and even worse when Incognito had to sit out - none of that bothered me in the least.

 

Sadly, those scouting results proved false. Seeing as how Martin's played horrible in the League for 2 years now.