RuntheDamnBall Posted February 10, 2014 Posted February 10, 2014 Honestly, the fact that he is ever this far in life is pretty impressive. He has great character. http://espn.go.com/e...tigers-says-gay "I endured so much in my past: seeing my older brother killed from a gunshot wound, not knowing that my oldest sister died when she was a baby and I never got the chance to meet her. My second oldest brother went missing in 1998, and me and my little sister were the last ones to see him ... my other two brothers have been in and out of jail since 8th grade, currently both in jail. "Telling the world I'm gay is nothing compared to that." It's unreal what some of these guys have dealt with. Also, that Vince Lombardi story is fascinating and for me just adds to the guy's greatness.
NoSaint Posted February 10, 2014 Posted February 10, 2014 to the "so what" or "who cares" crowd - while it wont effect the day of you or I - take a moment to put yourself in the shoes of a lot of people past or future that have struggled with the idea of being a gay athlete, especially in the major US sports. its a big day for a lot of people. i hope Sam ends up with the same shot at reaching his football potential that hundreds of others will get this year, and kudos to the Missou program for being a place that was likely supportive of their teammate.
White Linen Posted February 10, 2014 Posted February 10, 2014 (edited) "used to be a lesbian" So she is bisexual and has had both gay and straight relationships? Did she choose to be bisexual? What real world observations? You pointed out a person who is bisexual and mislabeled herself as a lesbian? Why would people choose to be gay? Seriously give me one good honest reason. Please! I have never understood this argument. Again lesbian/bisexual. It would be interesting to see a survey to see if you could find anyone that openly would admit they chose being gay. Not bisexual but gay. I have several gay friends, family members, etc... All of them have told stories of knowing very early on that they were attracted to the same sex. My aunt changed my views on this entirely when she told me that she had a crush on the cute girl in kindergarten! So I am left to wonder bbb and John in Jax how many people have you talked to about this. How many people (can you find even one) have told you they chose to be gay? Intolerance or ignorance. I am a catholic and have never understood the whole stance of the bible being against gay people. The new testament is much more open to acceptance while the old testament shows a much more judgemental and vengeful god. So leviticus says it is an abomination? What about "Do not oppress your neighbor" (leviticus) or how about "Do not hate in your heart" (also leviticus). What about " A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another." (John) The best one though is "Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus” (Romans). So there you have one quote against homosexuality and several that are accepting of people (including everyone yes even gay people ). That is the great thing about the Bible it is open for everyone to interpret in their own way. I will leave you with one last new testament verse from Matthew (you know the GOSPEL) "judge not lest ye be judged" You don't believe in the judicial system? What would you replace our law enforcement system with? Being a Christian in this country is to be the least tolerated group. You don't think we should judge folks that cheat or other sexual preferences such as children? Edited February 10, 2014 by Triple Threat
RuntheDamnBall Posted February 10, 2014 Posted February 10, 2014 to the "so what" or "who cares" crowd - while it wont effect the day of you or I - take a moment to put yourself in the shoes of a lot of people past or future that have struggled with the idea of being a gay athlete, especially in the major US sports. its a big day for a lot of people. i hope Sam ends up with the same shot at reaching his football potential that hundreds of others will get this year, and kudos to the Missou program for being a place that was likely supportive of their teammate. Yep. Honestly, it's the most American thing of all to say that nothing in one's background should restrict someone from following their passions and excelling at them - and Sam's is football. It's a good thing to see a model for young gay athletes in the prevailing sport in our culture.
Wraith Posted February 10, 2014 Posted February 10, 2014 The references to the locker room culture by some of the scouts/coaches/player personnel/executive types is incredibly annoying to me. I have already lost count of how many quotes I have read from these groups saying that Sam's draft stock is going to drop because they're afraid of what will happen to the unity of the locker room. Am I the only who thinks that Sam is going to be treated better by his new teammates in the locker room than by the groups I listed above? The players in the locker room are overwhelmingly young and are part of a very accepting generation. The locker room is already an incredible melting pot of races, classes, religions, and view points. I think it is more likely that these player personnel types, who are far less diverse, are projecting some of their own biases about not only homosexuality but also about modern athletes in general. The reaction from his Missouri teammates is very encouraging to me. I hope that is represenative.
RuntheDamnBall Posted February 10, 2014 Posted February 10, 2014 The references to the locker room culture by some of the scouts/coaches/player personnel/executive types is incredibly annoying to me. I have already lost count of how many quotes I have read from these groups saying that Sam's draft stock is going to drop because they're afraid of what will happen to the unity of the locker room. Am I the only who thinks that Sam is going to be treated better by his new teammates in the locker room than by the groups I listed above? The players in the locker room are overwhelmingly young and are part of a very accepting generation. The locker room is already an incredible melting pot of races, classes, religions, and view points. I think it is more likely that these player personnel types, who are far less diverse, are projecting some of their own biases about not only homosexuality but also about modern athletes in general. The reaction from his Missouri teammates is very encouraging to me. I hope that is represenative. I think there are probably players who have come out to a few teammates but asked them to respectfully keep it to themselves out of fear for what the larger group would think. So in that respect, yeah, I think that the locker rooms are probably more ready than this neanderthal collection of quotes suggests. Also, if you look at some of this other family insanity that Sam has had to deal with, I think a lot of players from rough places will look at that background and see themselves in that story. There will be players who can't handle it, but that is a reflection on them and not Sam. Sam is doing the most honest thing possible in being himself and being unapologetic for it (note: not "parading" it or "putting it in people's faces," whatever that means). Honesty can and should rule the day, and it will limit the ways in which someone can use his sexuality against him - in the locker room or in the court of public opinion.
NoSaint Posted February 10, 2014 Posted February 10, 2014 (edited) The references to the locker room culture by some of the scouts/coaches/player personnel/executive types is incredibly annoying to me. I have already lost count of how many quotes I have read from these groups saying that Sam's draft stock is going to drop because they're afraid of what will happen to the unity of the locker room. Am I the only who thinks that Sam is going to be treated better by his new teammates in the locker room than by the groups I listed above? The players in the locker room are overwhelmingly young and are part of a very accepting generation. The locker room is already an incredible melting pot of races, classes, religions, and view points. I think it is more likely that these player personnel types, who are far less diverse, are projecting some of their own biases about not only homosexuality but also about modern athletes in general. The reaction from his Missouri teammates is very encouraging to me. I hope that is represenative. i like to think so, but on a purely practical level, it only takes a few - especially if they are influential, and it can be an issue. while many players, coaches, gms and locker rooms would be fine, it could be trouble for some locker rooms out of the gate. look at the allegations being levied by kluwe towards the vikings (who knows the degree of truth, but just a very current example), or the kerry rhodes issue last year (again, who knows the truth of the situation but a good player not employed shortly after rumors and photos circulated - could be unreasonable demands, could be related to the rumors) and a well said extended to Runthedamnball Edited February 10, 2014 by NoSaint
section122 Posted February 10, 2014 Posted February 10, 2014 You don't believe in the judicial system? What would you replace our law enforcement system with? Being a Christian in this country is to be the least tolerated group. You don't think we should judge folks that cheat or other sexual preferences such as children? Where in the world did you get that I don't believe in the judicial system? I AM a Christian and come down off of your cross buddy we are far from the least tolerated group. When do you get called any names for being a Christian? When are you denied marriage because you are a Christian? When are you denied visiting rights in a hospital because the state you are in doesn't allow you to be married so you aren't family? What groups are dedicated to the point of holding rallies against Christians? Next you are going to tell me the white man is the least tolerated group right? I quoted the Bible as saying judge not lest ye be judged. You know the same book that people like to quote to say that laying with another man like a woman is an abomination. So which is it? Do we listen to the Bible or don't we? Do we follow what it says or don't we? You can't have it both ways. Although reading your signature it appears that you feel you can....
Buftex Posted February 10, 2014 Posted February 10, 2014 Maybe if the Bills draft him, this board would finally, finally, retire the term 'Dolfag.' Also, this seems relevant: http://profootballta...rs-on-his-team/ “And if I hear one of you people make reference to his manhood, you’ll be out of here before your ass hits the ground.” kj Interesting article about Lombardi. Thanks. There has obviously been an issue with this matter in the NFL, in the past. Warren Moon, and other Houston Oilers players have spoken openly about having 2 gay teammates on those early 90's Oiler teams. There has been specualation over the years over which players those were, nobody knows for sure...but the suicide of Jeff Alm, during the 1993 season has long been rumored to have been the result of being "outed". That wasn't that long ago, but it was also a different generation of players.
T master Posted February 10, 2014 Posted February 10, 2014 As we can already see this will be a huge story but for the life of me i can't see why what some one does in their personal sexual life should be a huge story ? Hey guess what i'm a heterosexual does any body care ? NO ! So why should any one care what this guy does ? "Besides the manly sports thing" . Could there be a hidden agenda here ? I don't know but every chance the media gets to write about the subject (no matter what entity it is) it's in everyones face for a while & there will be segments on ESPN & all over other media out lets . SO WHAT !! No matter what our opinions, religious beliefs, or personal sexual orientations are why should this & why is this as huge a story as it will turn out to be ? What is the end result ? Sure this will open the door for many others to tell us their sexual orientation & i applaud the guy for being that courageous because as others here have said in reading other posts the guy must have brass balls ! But again, SO WHAT !! I personally don't care what he or any of you all do in your personal lives & especially don't care what you do in the bed room !! Sorry !! I will bet though that there will be plenty of ill & quite possibly ignorant words spoken on the subject by players & others that will then have to put out retractions & then a apology to all b/c they didn't intend to hurt any ones feelings !! But that also has become the norm when the subject is put into the public forum ...
The Big Cat Posted February 10, 2014 Posted February 10, 2014 Well this thread makes it pretty clear which posters have actually spent time with homosexuals and those who think they exist somewhere in the shadows. But back to the topic, what !@#$ing sucks about this is that it WILL be an issue and it WILL affect his draft status. Why? Because of the 11 year old gossip queens we call the "media," Those !@#$ing vultures will be camped out at training camp, they'll be trying to weasel a first hand expose of the dating life of a gay NFL player, they'll be EVERYWHERE they need to be to cover the sex life of a 22 year old who's just trying to get his career off the ground And guess what--THAT distraction more so than homophobia, religious bigotry (sorry, calls them likes I see them) or any other clubhouse disruption will be what teams will be looking to avoid...at Sam's expense and at the expense of his professional career. Or not. May be some team will embrace the circus. Either way, !@#$ the media, cover something that matters.
RuntheDamnBall Posted February 10, 2014 Posted February 10, 2014 Or not. May be some team will embrace the circus. Either way, !@#$ the media, cover something that matters. If we define Information as "a difference that makes a difference," it suggests that this matters... for now. It also suggests that part of the job that Sam is doing is to make it so that it isn't much of a difference, to the point where it doesn't matter anymore. It's definitely a burden but hopefully he'll be able to handle it with the grace that he has so far. I presume it'll be an issue for a little bit and that he'll try to just steer the conversation towards football where he can. A team with a good PR staff and a good coach in control could certainly handle it.
NoSaint Posted February 10, 2014 Posted February 10, 2014 Well this thread makes it pretty clear which posters have actually spent time with homosexuals and those who think they exist somewhere in the shadows. But back to the topic, what !@#$ing sucks about this is that it WILL be an issue and it WILL affect his draft status. Why? Because of the 11 year old gossip queens we call the "media," Those !@#$ing vultures will be camped out at training camp, they'll be trying to weasel a first hand expose of the dating life of a gay NFL player, they'll be EVERYWHERE they need to be to cover the sex life of a 22 year old who's just trying to get his career off the ground And guess what--THAT distraction more so than homophobia, religious bigotry (sorry, calls them likes I see them) or any other clubhouse disruption will be what teams will be looking to avoid...at Sam's expense and at the expense of his professional career. Or not. May be some team will embrace the circus. Either way, !@#$ the media, cover something that matters. i dont know that itll be quite the circus most think. itll get a few extra interviews but this time last year people thought whichever team took Teo would barely be able to function due to the media frenzy. it was pretty quiet once pads went on. ultimately, i think that it has potential to blow up a little if a player says something dumb, but otherwise, even those against it will simply keep quiet for the most part.
Doc Posted February 10, 2014 Posted February 10, 2014 Why would you "think twice"? Do you think he might have been "checking you out"? Why is this (your brave clothes changing statement) such a grand gesture? I'm sure you have undressed in locker rooms in front of gay men for as long as you have been undressing in locker rooms--we all have, whether we know it or not. Big deal. Becuase a man is gay doesn't mean he is "cruising". He's just another guy changing in the locker room. A room full of muscular/ripped/mangroomed dudes milling about and hanging naked after a gang shower? The NFL locker room may already be the "gayest" place on earth, so all this "concern" about the "culture of the locker room" being changed by an openly gay player in the mix is a bit much... It wasn't supposed to be a grand gesture and if he checked me out, it wouldn't have bothered me because I knew nothing further would happen. Just relaying what my experience was. But to think it won't be a bigger deal in an NFL locker room is naive.
thebandit27 Posted February 10, 2014 Posted February 10, 2014 How much does everyone want to wager that NE picks Michael Sam?
NoSaint Posted February 10, 2014 Posted February 10, 2014 How much does everyone want to wager that NE picks Michael Sam? my shot in the dark is that as an undersized rusher going in the mid rounds seattle could be a realistic destination. havent seen a ton of him play but sounds like he might fit in their schemes in a bruce irvin kind of role from the bits and pieces ive gathered.
T master Posted February 10, 2014 Posted February 10, 2014 I think there are probably players who have come out to a few teammates but asked them to respectfully keep it to themselves out of fear for what the larger group would think. So in that respect, yeah, I think that the locker rooms are probably more ready than this neanderthal collection of quotes suggests. Also, if you look at some of this other family insanity that Sam has had to deal with, I think a lot of players from rough places will look at that background and see themselves in that story. There will be players who can't handle it, but that is a reflection on them and not Sam. Sam is doing the most honest thing possible in being himself and being unapologetic for it (note: not "parading" it or "putting it in people's faces," whatever that means). Honesty can and should rule the day, and it will limit the ways in which someone can use his sexuality against him - in the locker room or in the court of public opinion. I agree with all you have put here , but the note of "not parading it & not putting it in peoples faces" & more so the "what ever that means " comment i don't get ? My reason is because by him coming out as publicly as he has this will be the biggest , most talked about , & probably most published story for the next year so, how can we even think that this will not be paraded & put in peoples faces ? Sure it's not Sams doing, & yes he is as you said being honest but it has become pretty clear (& if i am wrong i'm sure some one will say so) & i will take the criticism but there seems to be some type of possible agenda here what ever it may be . I think if your not trying to draw attention to your self then you do your thing & don't announce it unless you are trying to draw attention or want people to know, especially in such a high profile sport as the NFL . Also the timing leading up to the draft (personal opinion which ain't worth nothin !!) just says HEY LOOK AT ME !!!
l< j Posted February 10, 2014 Posted February 10, 2014 Is he any good? (Don't watch college ball, and not qualified to evaluate even if I did.)
thebandit27 Posted February 10, 2014 Posted February 10, 2014 my shot in the dark is that as an undersized rusher going in the mid rounds seattle could be a realistic destination. havent seen a ton of him play but sounds like he might fit in their schemes in a bruce irvin kind of role from the bits and pieces ive gathered. Sure...makes sense. Any team with a need for a situational pass rusher should be looking closely at Sam...he's probably not an every-down player--he can get to the QB though.
C.Biscuit97 Posted February 10, 2014 Posted February 10, 2014 Is he any good? (Don't watch college ball, and not qualified to evaluate even if I did.) SEC Defensive player of the year
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