ExiledInIllinois Posted February 10, 2014 Posted February 10, 2014 If he drops in the draft, he can use it as an excuse. Just the circus around his selection should make teams HAVE to really weigh things. By him coming out, it puts teams in a rough spot. Damn if they do (if their lockeroom is not receptive), damn if they don't. I suppose a GM would have to get the pulse of the team, see where they fall. What if a team has a bunch of troublemakers that take this thing kinda seriously and dissapove. You going to sacrifice a bunch of guys for one pick? I mean, he is a good player, but not all world, a sure thing. It is more than just the physical lockeroom, that is no big deal... It is "the lockeroom" that is @ issue here, like it or not.
benjamin Posted February 10, 2014 Posted February 10, 2014 Tim, I'm surprised you 'read it all,' because I linked you to a page with 14 policy statements and five advocacy letters on the APA site alone. If you truly did, then I bow to your expertise. I have three social science degrees, but I'm not a speed reader. I have a saying I tell my students: "Almost everyone thinks they are an above average driver, almost everyone thinks they're an above average writer, almost everyone thinks that they have an above average sense of humor, and almost everyone thinks that they have an above average intelligence but statistically that's impossible. We all have areas we can improve upon." Similarly, in the realm of self-assessment: you may *think* that you can reasonably gauge your scientific acumen on this point, but it fails at the first hurdle: Sexuality, Sex, and Gender are different things. I would say that good social science requires policy intervention, as there are often serious repercussions when politicians and everyday folk lack data to back their opinions and actions. Please take a look at what is going on in Russia right now when ill-informed people start thinking they know how to treat people and communities they don't understand.
White Linen Posted February 10, 2014 Posted February 10, 2014 (edited) Where in the world did you get that I don't believe in the judicial system? I AM a Christian and come down off of your cross buddy we are far from the least tolerated group. When do you get called any names for being a Christian? When are you denied marriage because you are a Christian? When are you denied visiting rights in a hospital because the state you are in doesn't allow you to be married so you aren't family? What groups are dedicated to the point of holding rallies against Christians? Next you are going to tell me the white man is the least tolerated group right? I quoted the Bible as saying judge not lest ye be judged. You know the same book that people like to quote to say that laying with another man like a woman is an abomination. So which is it? Do we listen to the Bible or don't we? Do we follow what it says or don't we? You can't have it both ways. Although reading your signature it appears that you feel you can.... My point was that the root word of judicial is judge. We judge people everyday in all different kinds of capacities. So to just use that scripture to say you shouldn't judge is fundamentally wrong. Basically what you're saying is no one should judge people if you don't think they should or if it's something you agree with. I'm not trying to name call or fight with you, I only want to show my point of view. I'm sure you'll agree that as Christians we can interpret the word of God differently. Clearly you and I feel differently about what the word of God says about this topic. My point isn't to convert you to my thinking but that is something you're trying to do. The hipocracy that bothers me is that if I don't hold the same opinion you're intolerant of it, which is the very thing you're fighting for. Edited February 10, 2014 by Triple Threat
Numark Posted February 10, 2014 Posted February 10, 2014 In other words, one cannot "misinterpret" the datasets or correlations. The same cannot be said of the "light" science we can psychology. If your in the field please do not take offense, but let' face it, when psychologists enter the realm of social matters, the do NOT have a good track record. Not true at all. Not even a little bit. Sorry
dwight in philly Posted February 10, 2014 Posted February 10, 2014 Then you should probably stick to just football. And I hope your football knowledge greatly outweighs your "expertise" in homosexuality. what is the criteria for one to have "expertise" in homosexuality?
section122 Posted February 10, 2014 Posted February 10, 2014 SHE said this less than a year ago: Bill de Blasio's wife opened up about falling in love with a man after years of identifying as a lesbian and their life as a “very conventional, unconventional couple” in a candid interview released Thursday. Chirlane McCray, 58, said her relationship with de Blasio was made possible “by putting aside the assumptions I had about the form and package my love would come in.” The interview, with Essence magazine, comes 34 years after McCray penned a groundbreaking 1979 essay for Essence entitled, “I Am a Lesbian,” about coming out as a gay black woman. Why do people smoke cigarettes? They're bad for your health (we've known this for about 50+ years now), they make you stink. they force you to take your work breaks in inconvenient places, & the habit is expensive. Why do people do hard drugs? You could get arrested & go to jail, you could OD & die, and the habit is usually expensive. Why do some people drive their car and/or motorcycle at very high speeds on public highways? You could get arrested & go to jail. You could crash & die. Why do people drink alcohol in excessive amounts? You could get sick. With too much alcohol in a short period of time, you could actually die. The alcohol consumption could cause you to lose control of rational thoughts & actions, and you could do something illegal; you could become a danger to yourself or to others (DUI, accidents at work, etc.). Why do serial killers kill? Are they "born to do so?" Why do people do ANY risky, dangerous, out of the norm, or looked-down-upon behavior? Are they making a choice to do those behaviors, or do they have no control? I have never understood why people would do all the stupid things I mention in the paragraph above. This is fun. This is indeed fun. I thought it would just be a mundane day of the off season instead I get to teach someone something... After years of identifying as a lesbian is straight out of your quote. That does not mean she was a lesbian it was just what she identified with because at the time she had a romantic relationship with a woman. Now she is in a romantic relationship with a man. That to me says that she is a bisexual. You know what else though? It says nothing to me about her character or who she is as a person. Was she an attention seeker or self destructive (to pinpoint your examples later in your post) and then decided she was through with all of that so it was time to "straighten up." Did she recover from her gay addiction? Your examples are certainly strange choices. Also you "stupid things comment" kind of got to me. Is being gay a stupid thing to do? If your answer is yes then that is indeed how you know that you carry a prejudice towards gay people. You actually care about what people choose to do behind closed doors with a consensual adult. So you cited one example of someone who decided to be in a heterosexual relationship as the whole premise of your argument. What happens if the marriage dissolves and she begins dating a woman? Does she then became a lesbian again? Sexuality is not the black and white picture you are trying to paint here...
Numark Posted February 10, 2014 Posted February 10, 2014 what is the criteria for one to have "expertise" in homosexuality? Probably have read enough research on the subject to make an unbiased claim. Or a researcher that uses acceptable methods.
Big Turk Posted February 10, 2014 Posted February 10, 2014 Here is what I see as interesting...men and women are not allowed in the same locker room naked because they are sexually attracted to each other... So now there is a gay man who is sexually attracted to other men in a locker room full of naked men. I guess being gay has its privileges, lol
John in Jax Posted February 10, 2014 Posted February 10, 2014 I have a saying I tell my students: "Almost everyone thinks they are an above average driver, almost everyone thinks they're an above average writer, almost everyone thinks that they have an above average sense of humor, and almost everyone thinks that they have an above average intelligence but statistically that's impossible. We all have areas we can improve upon." Similarly, in the realm of self-assessment: you may *think* that you can reasonably gauge your scientific acumen on this point, but it fails at the first hurdle: Sexuality, Sex, and Gender are different things. This is indeed fun. I thought it would just be a mundane day of the off season instead I get to teach someone something... Ha ha...good one. You think too highly of yourself. Looks like benjamin (in bold above) has you pegged to a T.
dwight in philly Posted February 10, 2014 Posted February 10, 2014 (edited) Probably have read enough research on the subject to make an unbiased claim. Or a researcher that uses acceptable methods. so what you are saying is that unless one has not read enough research, or research using "acceptable" methods, he or she has no right to offer an opinion? Edited February 10, 2014 by dwight in philly
Coach Tuesday Posted February 10, 2014 Posted February 10, 2014 Here is what I see as interesting...men and women are not allowed in the same locker room naked because they are sexually attracted to each other... So now there is a gay man who is sexually attracted to other men in a locker room full of naked men. I guess being gay has its privileges, lol Is that really what you think?
Big Turk Posted February 10, 2014 Posted February 10, 2014 This is indeed fun. I thought it would just be a mundane day of the off season instead I get to teach someone something... After years of identifying as a lesbian is straight out of your quote. That does not mean she was a lesbian it was just what she identified with because at the time she had a romantic relationship with a woman. Now she is in a romantic relationship with a man. That to me says that she is a bisexual. You know what else though? It says nothing to me about her character or who she is as a person. Was she an attention seeker or self destructive (to pinpoint your examples later in your post) and then decided she was through with all of that so it was time to "straighten up." Did she recover from her gay addiction? Your examples are certainly strange choices. Also you "stupid things comment" kind of got to me. Is being gay a stupid thing to do? If your answer is yes then that is indeed how you know that you carry a prejudice towards gay people. You actually care about what people choose to do behind closed doors with a consensual adult. So you cited one example of someone who decided to be in a heterosexual relationship as the whole premise of your argument. What happens if the marriage dissolves and she begins dating a woman? Does she then became a lesbian again? Sexuality is not the black and white picture you are trying to paint here... I know quite a few women who are gay and if they were heterosexual at one point, they have always turned gay after being with a man and having kids if they had them...I've never seen a gay women who went the other way...its similar to guys who are gay that date women until they accept themselves being gay and then date guys whether its family pressure, peer pressure, etc...
BillsRUs Posted February 10, 2014 Posted February 10, 2014 Here is what I see as interesting...men and women are not allowed in the same locker room naked because they are sexually attracted to each other... So now there is a gay man who is sexually attracted to other men in a locker room full of naked men. I guess being gay has its privileges, lol If sam was walking around his locker room this past year sporting a stiffie, I'm sure his teammates would not be as supportive as they have been. This is a total non issue. There are probably quite a few gay men who work out at your local gym. How many would you say walk around all at attention? Lol this is a total non issue.
D521646 Posted February 10, 2014 Posted February 10, 2014 Benjamin – Tim, I'm surprised you 'read it all,' because I linked you to a page with 14 policy statements and five advocacy letters on the APA site alone. If you truly did, then I bow to your expertise. I have three social science degrees, but I'm not a speed reader. I have a saying I tell my students: "Almost everyone thinks they are an above average driver, almost everyone thinks they're an above average writer, almost everyone thinks that they have an above average sense of humor, and almost everyone thinks that they have an above average intelligence but statistically that's impossible. We all have areas we can improve upon." Similarly, in the realm of self-assessment: you may *think* that you can reasonably gauge your scientific acumen on this point, but it fails at the first hurdle: Sexuality, Sex, and Gender are different things. I would say that good social science requires policy intervention, as there are often serious repercussions when politicians and everyday folk lack data to back their opinions and actions. Please take a look at what is going on in Russia right now when ill-informed people start thinking they know how to treat people and communities they don't understand. Let’s look at this first part. I didn’t read them all today, and I apologize if this is what you thought I meant. What I meant was that I have reviewed them over the years, and personally I find the APA and associations just like them to be political organizations in both structure, and efficiency. One only need to look at their history and flying their collective kites in whichever way the wind blows to find peace with this sentiment. Secondly, you may tell your students that, and great advise, although rather obviously a rhetorical to say the least, BUT, I have not confused anything. Although a topic for another discussion perhaps, I do find that discussing sexual behavior without discussing sexuality are rather tedious and intellectually dishonest. I do cede that one who has behaved in a homosexual manner is not necessarily a homosexual, I find that simply observing this phenomenon without suggesting why, is the intellectual dishonest part. Moreover using this enigma as a basis to define the two concepts as independent of each other is wholeheartedly what proves that my take on the light science of psychology as lacking true discipline, is more accurate than not. Also to your second point. Gender and gender identity are relatively new fields, and poorly understood, if not entirely manufactured. I do not profess to be an expert here, and I have read a good deal of literature and I also cede that there is some truth that GID appears to be a real thing, but as I stated, I did not make any assertions on gender in this thread. To your third point, I say right back atcha. Insert psychologists in place of politicians and everyday folk, and we’re not so far apart as to the relevance of either point of view. I argue as I stated, that politically on issues that seem unsettled, or so incredibly complex that a basis for review from a social standpoint should come from the people, not those with skin in the game. A judge is someone that we appoint to give us their opinion. A psychologist is someone that we pay for their opinion, and a politician is someone we elect to gives us their opinion, but they’re all really just opinions. Some better than others, but with the science not well understood by a great many, we should err on the side of caution. That is my opinion on the subject. Now I was reading that tomorrow the CFL has it’s free agency period and some big names can go north or south of the border. J Tim-
Numark Posted February 10, 2014 Posted February 10, 2014 so what you are saying is that unless one has not read enough research, or research using "acceptable" methods, he or she has no right to offer an opinion? Nope. You asked what constitutes being an expert. I answered. I never said anything about offering opinions. Maybe you have me confused or maybe you misread something
Kirby Jackson Posted February 10, 2014 Posted February 10, 2014 so what you are saying is that unless one has not read enough research, or research using "acceptable" methods, he or she has no right to offer an opinion? I can offer an opinion on how one should go about performing brain surgery. However, I would think that the stronger argument would come from those that have spent years studying it. It seems like Benjamin is the most qualified person on this thread to comment on this subject.
thebandit27 Posted February 10, 2014 Posted February 10, 2014 This thread is, predictably, spiraling out of control.
Numark Posted February 10, 2014 Posted February 10, 2014 This thread is, predictably, spiraling out of control. It truly is great! I'm at work trying to kill time and enjoy reading this
section122 Posted February 10, 2014 Posted February 10, 2014 My point was that the root word of judicial is judge. We judge people everyday in all different kinds of capacities. So to just use that scripture to say you shouldn't judge is fundamentally wrong. Basically what you're saying is no one should judge people if you don't think they should or if it's something you agree with. I'm not trying to name call or fight with you, I only want to show my point of view. I'm sure you'll agree that as Christians we can interpret the word of God differently. Clearly you and I feel differently about what the word of God says about this topic. My point isn't to convert you to my thinking but that is something you're trying to do. The hipocracy that bothers me is that if I don't hold the same opinion you're intolerant of it, which is the very thing you're fighting for. Yes I am indeed intolerant of intolerance for intolerance sake. Murder, pedophilia,, the examples you used in your previous post, are things that effect other people. Homosexuality does not effect other people. I definitely agree that Christians interpret the Bible differently and always refrain from any name calling. That said I hate when people use religion in general, but specifically my religion, as a platform to condemn behaviors of others that have no bearing on them. I won't convert you over an internet message board. Your beliefs are your beliefs. I strongly oppose them and will speak up when the situation arises, this happens to be one of those cases as it hits very close to home for me. My Aunt was a god loving woman who sang in the choir every Sunday. During her funeral though my father, who did the eulogy, was not allowed to talk about her being a lesbian or anything to do with people that she loved and cared greatly for simply because they were gay. My interpretation is that we are meant to love one another not judge them based on their sexual orientation or anything else out of their control. Final piece to you is that our beliefs can change. You can change your belief system. Your faith is yours and yours alone nobody can tell you that they are right and you are wrong. I just strongly dislike when people use the name of my faith to preach intolerance.
thebandit27 Posted February 10, 2014 Posted February 10, 2014 If sam was walking around his locker room this past year sporting a stiffie, I'm sure his teammates would not be as supportive as they have been. This is a total non issue. There are probably quite a few gay men who work out at your local gym. How many would you say walk around all at attention? Lol this is a total non issue. Seriously. As I said, I belonged to a Power Lifting gym where a gay competitor worked out...no, he didn't stare. Yes, I felt totally comfortable showering when he was in the locker room. The reason I felt comfortable was that neither one of us went out of our way to make it weird. He did as any other guy did in the locker room: showered, got dressed, said hi to the people he knew, and didn't stare at other people's nude figures in a creepy fashion.
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