Jkgobills Posted February 9, 2014 Posted February 9, 2014 With the NFL season officially over (for us Bills Fans it has been over since the conclusion of week 17), I needed some sort of football fix this morning. Some quick research created a list of Super Bowl Starting QBs since 2001 (the beginning of our hideous playoff drought). Super Bowl Starting QBs 2001: Trent Dilfer Kerry Collins 2002: Tom Brady Kurt Warner 2003: Brad Johnson Rich Gannon 2004: Tom Brady Jake Delhomme 2005: Tom Brady Donovan McNabb 2006: Ben Roethlisberger Matt Hasselbeck 2007: Peyton Manning Rex Grossman 2008: Eli Manning Tom Brady 2009: Ben Roethlisberger Kurt Warner 2010: Drew Brees Peyton Manning 2011: Aaron Rodgers Ben Roethlisberger 2012: Eli Manning Tom Brady 2013: Joe Flacco Colin Kaepernick 2014: Russell Wilson Peyton Manning There has been much, much discussion on this board about the importance of the QB, is EJ Manuel the right guy, should we draft another QB in the first round, and can we win with EJ. Looking at this list, there are some pretty average QBs mixed in there. The point of the post is not to create another thread regarding EJ's talents or lack thereof (however it very may do that anyway). Rather, to give some historical perspective of success during our prolonged period of struggle. Granted, the sure fire way to get to the most Superbowls during these past 14 seasons was to draft a future HOF QB in the seventh round. That is a rare draft gem indeed, and regardless of what EJ may become it is not likely he will have the career that Brady has had, simply because it is unlikely for anyone to have the success he has had. The guy drives me nuts, but damn he is good. Looking at the rest of the list there a few other future HOF players: Peyton, Brees, likely Rodgers, and maybe Roethlisberger, and not sure about Warner. The careers of Wilson and Kaepernick are too early to judge. Thie other players on this list (and the absolute dominance of the Denver Broncos and Peyton Manning by the Seahwks during this year's Superbowl) have opened my eyes to what we could build regardless of how EJ turns out in comparison to the HOF guys. There are guys on this list that give me hope that a team built around defense, running the football, and good QB play can make it to the Big Game. Personally, I have always felt that the ultimate upside of EJ Manuel (IF he achieves it) would put him at the same level as "Big Ben". Same kind of build, same kind of rarm, and same kind of mobility (Ben was a lot more mobile in his early days before injuries mounted). If we look at that list, "Big Ben" has been to three SB's during this time, tied with Peyton and second only to Brady. In conclusion: 1. I am off the " draft another QB early this year" wagon. 2. I hope we start to look like those Steelers teams...crushing defense, good running game and a solid player at QB. 3. Go Bills!!
Hazed and Amuzed Posted February 9, 2014 Posted February 9, 2014 In conclusion: 1. I am off the " draft another QB early this year" wagon. Welcome back to sanity.
ALF Posted February 9, 2014 Posted February 9, 2014 We will never know if EJ is a franchise QB until we have a rock solid OL.
Bill from NYC Posted February 9, 2014 Posted February 9, 2014 We will never know if EJ is a franchise QB until we have a rock solid OL. Many said the same thing about Losman. And btw, I said it about Rob Johnson.
Jkgobills Posted February 9, 2014 Author Posted February 9, 2014 Welcome back to sanity. Lol...I remain a loyal Bills Fan having left the state 17 years ago...how sane do you really think I am?! Many said the same thing about Losman. And btw, I said it about Rob Johnson. I lost a bet on Losman....I was convinced that he would make it as a professional QB some day, and that we needed to build the line in front of him..... I thought I might be able to reclaim the lost wager when he showed up in the "XFL". Technically, it was professional football. He, and the league, didn't make it there either.
Ed_Formerly_of_Roch Posted February 9, 2014 Posted February 9, 2014 The other advantage I see in having an average type QB is he doesn't eat up such a huge chunk of cap space. You have money to sign better starters and backups in the less glamorous high paid positions. Looking at your list all the wins by Brady came in the early years when he wasn't eating up a huge chunk of cap space, Even Big Ben the first win was still making less $$. You do need better than average play from the QB position, but do agree you don't need elite.
Big C Posted February 9, 2014 Posted February 9, 2014 Looking at the rest of the list there a few other future HOF players: Peyton, Brees, likely Rodgers, and maybe Roethlisberger, and not sure about Warner. Not sure about Warner? Right now I'd say he's more likely than Rodgers. But yeah, I agree for the most part. Dilfer and Johnson won Super Bowl's because of a great defense (and running game). Most of the winners are still damn good QBs, though. Coaching also plays a roll, and we'll have to see if Marrone has what it takes.
T master Posted February 9, 2014 Posted February 9, 2014 I am going to say that i hope EJ works out but hope that we don't put all of eggs in one basket as we have in the past & be more like the winning teams around the league & until THAT guy is found continue to bring in guys to develop . I will also go on record to say that after looking some more at Taj Boyd that if he falls to our pick in one of the later rounds say the 3rd or later that we should grab him ! If you go look at his stats over his career in college he has been above average in his production, has been very dependable & tough, & has great leadership qualities ! I think the guy will be a winner & i am predicting as i did with Russel Wilson that he will one day be mentioned among the other really good to great up & coming young QB's in the NFL !! The guy not only owns all of the records at Clemson but has brought them out of situations of being behind in very important games & i think due to his consistency he would be a great pick up to develop just incase & if for nothing else a great way to pick up other draft picks later by using him for trade bait & a definite upgrade as a back up !!
Ed_Formerly_of_Roch Posted February 9, 2014 Posted February 9, 2014 Who exactly has done that?? And how?? The problem I see with that concept is backup QB's get around five snaps a week with the first team, so how does a rookie develop in that role? Even EJ if they were to draft a QB with the #1, say Bridgewater drops to #9 and we pick him. And assume early in camp he looks better than EJ so he becomes the starter, how's EJ now going to develop with five snaps a week? A year from now you'll have two #1 picks invested in QB's and still have no idea if EJ is going to be any good as he hasn't played. Yeah you could take a QB with maybe a #3 pick, but is that guy likely going to look any better than Lewis or Tuell, I'd doubt it. Seattle drafted Wilson as a backup and quickly realized they made a mistake on Flynn so they went to Wilson. But thta was a different situation in that Flynn was experienced so if he doesn't look good right away, it's not due to lack of playing time, but due to him just not being any good. I'm not at all against bringing in someone as an experienced backup who could fill in better than Lewis is EJ either gets hurt again or looks terrible. But at this point having a QB competition with another rookie, they both lose. I am going to say that i hope EJ works out but hope that we don't put all of eggs in one basket as we have in the past & be more like the winning teams around the league & until THAT guy is found continue to bring in guys to develop .
The Big Cat Posted February 9, 2014 Posted February 9, 2014 Using our ninth pick on the second or third QB picked would be FLAT OUT STUPID.
Jkgobills Posted February 9, 2014 Author Posted February 9, 2014 Not sure about Warner? Right now I'd say he's more likely than Rodgers. But yeah, I agree for the most part. Dilfer and Johnson won Super Bowl's because of a great defense (and running game). Most of the winners are still damn good QBs, though. Coaching also plays a roll, and we'll have to see if Marrone has what it takes. Not sure about Warner, only because I don't pretend to know what lurks in the minds of the people who vote. I never thought it would take Andre Reed this long to get in Who exactly has done that?? And how?? The problem I see with that concept is backup QB's get around five snaps a week with the first team, so how does a rookie develop in that role? Even EJ if they were to draft a QB with the #1, say Bridgewater drops to #9 and we pick him. And assume early in camp he looks better than EJ so he becomes the starter, how's EJ now going to develop with five snaps a week? A year from now you'll have two #1 picks invested in QB's and still have no idea if EJ is going to be any good as he hasn't played. Yeah you could take a QB with maybe a #3 pick, but is that guy likely going to look any better than Lewis or Tuell, I'd doubt it. Seattle drafted Wilson as a backup and quickly realized they made a mistake on Flynn so they went to Wilson. But thta was a different situation in that Flynn was experienced so if he doesn't look good right away, it's not due to lack of playing time, but due to him just not being any good. I'm not at all against bringing in someone as an experienced backup who could fill in better than Lewis is EJ either gets hurt again or looks terrible. But at this point having a QB competition with another rookie, they both lose. I saw this logical point posted in another thread somewhere, and it made a lot of sense to me. We could potentially stunt the growth of two QBs simultaneously. A veteran who doesn't need the reps, but could step in and play (where is The Rich Gannon type guy?) would be a great addition.
CardinalScotts Posted February 9, 2014 Posted February 9, 2014 We will never know if EJ is a franchise QB until we have a rock solid OL. give him a defense like Seattle and he'll be pretty darn good, as wood any other qb in the league
chris heff Posted February 9, 2014 Posted February 9, 2014 Using our ninth pick on the second or third QB picked would be FLAT OUT STUPID. It is more likely that it would be the third, fourth or even fifth QB at 9.
Tommy Posted February 9, 2014 Posted February 9, 2014 (edited) I saw this logical point posted in another thread somewhere, and it made a lot of sense to me. We could potentially stunt the growth of two QBs simultaneously. A veteran who doesn't need the reps, but could step in and play (where is The Rich Gannon type guy?) would be a great addition. You mean like Fitzpatrick? Edited February 9, 2014 by Tommy
KRT88 Posted February 9, 2014 Posted February 9, 2014 We are doomed..........well not really but too many seem to think so. I like EJ's skill set but he needs to take two steps forward! He can't play scared of the mistake, take your shots down the field when you can and keep the chains moving. I'd like to see a little more read-option from him because he's legs are a weapon at this stage. I am going to trust Whaley to use UFA to fill in some gaps and then we need to hit a homerun in the draft! Use the draft and don't be afarid to move down and then back up. This is the deepest draft I remember, and with 90+ under classmen in the pool, there is a ton of talent in the areas we need to fill. Find a way to get extra picks if at all possible.!
Jkgobills Posted February 9, 2014 Author Posted February 9, 2014 You mean like Fitzpatrick? Lol... Yes like Fitzpatrick...solid Vet, durable, and smart enough to come in and operate the offense when called upon. Also, a know commodity and not a threat to create a QB controversy given his performance history. I will never quite comprehend letting him go and replacing him with Kolb. His time as a starter had certainly come to its' end, but he would pretty much be the kind of guy we need to back up a young QB like EJ.
vincec Posted February 9, 2014 Posted February 9, 2014 (edited) I see what point you are trying to make, but consider that of the 14 Super Bowls you listed, 10 were won by likely HOF QBs. Also, you probably need to throw out the last one with it being to early to tell with Russell Wilson. So 10 out of 13. Now if you want to get to the SB and lose, then you can have Kerry Collins, Rex Grossman, Jake Delhomme, Colin Kaepernick and Rich Gannon at QB. But if you want to win then you'd better have the goods behind center. Edited February 9, 2014 by vincec
Jkgobills Posted February 9, 2014 Author Posted February 9, 2014 I see what point you are trying to make, but consider that of the 14 Super Bowls you listed, 10 were won by likely HOF QBs. Also, you probably need to throw out the last one with it being to early to tell with Russell Wilson. So 10 out of 13. Now if you want to get to the SB and lose, then you can have Kerry Collins, Rex Grossman, Jake Delhomme, Colin Kaepernick and Rich Gannon at QB. But if you want to win then you'd better have the goods behind center. That is a good point. Admittedly, after 14 years of no playoffs I was looking at what types of QBs can make it to the play offs and the big game. Actually getting there and winning it can happen with a variety of signal callers. Our HOF QB lost to Jeff Hostetler, Mark Rypien, and Troy Ailkman (twice). Only Troy is in HOF. Its better to have a HOF QB (obviously), but in case we don't have one on the roster we can still get there and potentially win it.
RuntheDamnBall Posted February 9, 2014 Posted February 9, 2014 Many said the same thing about Losman. And btw, I said it about Rob Johnson. People also said Eli Manning needed time to figure it out. You can't always look to the past to predict the present. Each of these guys is in a unique scenario of coaching staff, team mentality and philosophy, available weapons and protection, and development (to say nothing of the defensive strengths of the team around them a la Wilson, Flacco, even Brady once upon a time).
Prickly Pete Posted February 9, 2014 Posted February 9, 2014 Groundhog Day. There should be a groundhog emoticon.
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