Best draft in the last 5 years

[Beerball]

I could easily see a team giving backing to a "researcher", and have exclusive use of their product. It's not that outlandish, in fact it would seem like a natural development in the course that sports and PED's have taken. So much money involved.

Oh, it is that outlandish. The reason baseball survived the steroid era is because teams were not involved in more than a look the other way fashion. Any owner giving backing to a researcher would be quickly banished (once discovered) and the team would be severely punished.

[boyst]

Honestly, I just assume the vast majority of NFL players are on something. They don't test for HGH so......

 

Pete Carrol may not be the most liked coach on this board but his players clearly love him. No team plays harder and seems to have more fun. I believe Carrol was also named the coach most NFL players would want to play for.

 

Carrol spoke of creating a home for his players, showing them he cared and that he could work with them.

 

BS?

 

Probably....but his philosophy has translated into a winning program where players have bought in. This likely allowed he Seahawks to draft certain players that others would not take as their approach is to build players up. When you do that you may end up with a few more bad apples, but bad apples that can play.

 

Perhaps this approach would pay dividends with players like Dareus, SJ and would have allowed the Bills to keep a guy like Marshawn productive while in a Bills uniform.

 

Dare I mention the name Da'Rick?

 

There are different approaches to coaching and ball breakers win too. Whatever the approach, the coach needs a winning culture and buy in. Do the Bills appear to be heading that way, I say yes but the jury is still out.

do you know much about HGH? Its not just something players are on. I am far from an expert on it but this PED world now is a lot different then 15 years ago.

 

http://entertainment.howstuffworks.com/athletic-drug-test3.htm

 

Try reading that. Its pretty good but it is very interesting that reports list HGH as having no conclusive benefit to training, although taken with other supplements there have been vast improvements. Its also knowing how to get full use of supplements.

Edited February 8, 2014 by jboyst62

[Astrobot]

This is why I reached for the term "dynasty" in another thread.

After watching the NFL (especially Bills) for many years, I have concluded that it is not who is drafted that matters, but who is doing the drafting and coaching.

 

Here is an interesting page we put up at DraftTek. It shows which drafted players are still on each team over a 4-year span.

Type in the full name of the city or team. Here's the summary at the bottom for Seattle:

Total Players drafted by SEATTLE from 2010 to 2013 is : 39

Players Still on roster : 29

DPR Rate : 74.36%

[agardin]

do you know much about HGH? Its not just something players are on. I am far from an expert on it but this PED world now is a lot different then 15 years ago.

 

http://entertainment.howstuffworks.com/athletic-drug-test3.htm

 

Try reading that. Its pretty good but it is very interesting that reports list HGH as having no conclusive benefit to training, although taken with other supplements there have been vast improvements. Its also knowing how to get full use of supplements.

 

Thanks, I will give it a read.

 

I am no expert, other than using horse paralyzers on my gamecocks I have no experience with PEDs.

 

I guess I have seen too many drug scandals to be shocked anymore and I would imagine there are plenty of players on something.

[Prickly Pete]

Oh, it is that outlandish. The reason baseball survived the steroid era is because teams were not involved in more than a look the other way fashion. Any owner giving backing to a researcher would be quickly banished (once discovered) and the team would be severely punished.

 

No, other reasons why it survived in baseball is because the teams that had rosters full of juiced guys, that they just signed to huge guaranteed contracts, would in no way benefit from a crackdown on PED's. And another reason is because all those home runs were bringing lots of fans and TV ratings. And the NFL would survive even this kind of scandal.

 

Am I wrong?

 

I'm also not so sure that the NFL wouldn't try to cover up something like that, because it wouldn't exactly make the league look good. I think if Goodell thought it was going on, he would first meet with them, and tell them to stop. Just like with the Saints (admittedly, theirs was a much less egregious, and serious offense).

Proving an owner was involved...well, I'm guessing they would cover their tracks pretty well, and have the best legal team money could buy. And it wouldn't even be in the best interest of the NFL to pursue it strongly. Paul Allen ain't taking the fall.

 

You are free to think what you like, and I'm not claiming this is what is happening with Seattle, just that involvement from a team could be deeper than most might suspect.

Edited February 8, 2014 by Marauder'sMicro

[bobobonators]

When I watch the Seahawks play, they are SO jacked up. And they way they act it looks like they're on something. Especially Golden Tate. Gheez. Maybe Pete just has them super fired up with his superior motivational skills. I have nothing scientific to report, however to me anyway, it looks like they're on something.

 

Carroll is also jacked up on the sidelines all the time. Maybe hes on PED's too?

 

Teams take on the personality of their coaches many times.

 

Look at harbaugh and the niners.

 

The saints with payton

 

The Bills with marrone. Obviously.

[bananathumb]

Here is an interesting page we put up at DraftTek. It shows which drafted players are still on each team over a 4-year span.

Type in the full name of the city or team. Here's the summary at the bottom for Seattle:

Total Players drafted by SEATTLE from 2010 to 2013 is : 39

Players Still on roster : 29

DPR Rate : 74.36%

 

Good find. I would think that might verify how wise their drafting has been. Not many mistakes there.

I have also read that their FO has made more overall moves (mostly FA signings) since Carroll became coach than any other team.

That means, they are 1. willing to spend the dough it takes to bring guys in and 2. absorb the cost and cut them if they can find something better. A very pro-active organization. Better be good or you're gone. Will watch their draft carefully this year.

[Kingdome]

The Seahawks have had 7 PED suspensions in the last 3 years......Richard Sherman had his overturned on a technicality after claiming he drank from a teammates adderall laced water bottle.

 

....

 

I would call that program "Seahawks 24/7" which means diligently following the trainers guidelines for staying jacked while keeping it masked to prevent a positive drug test.

 

I saw a lot of these guys in college........including a complete non-prospect named Jermaine Kearse......and their improvement is uttlerly too good to be true.

 

 

Decade+ lurker hoping to get some of those aluminum foil caps into the recycling bin:

- The Seahawks have had 7 drug suspensions, not 7 PED suspensions. Irvin & Browner were popped for PEDs. Browner (2nd time) and Thurmond this year were busted for recreational drugs. The other three players who violated the NFL's drug policy are no longer on the team. Odds are Irvin will be the only one left in 2014.

- According to Carroll, the point of Seahawks 24/7 is to not mess up off the field thus hurting the team. Things like drug suspensions for example.

- Jermaine Kearse left the University of Washington #2 all-time in receiving yards (2,871) and receiving touchdowns (29). While at the Univ. of Washington he made spectacular catches and some inexplicable drops. Kearse has had laser eye surgery following college, which fixed the problem.

Pete Carroll coached Smith in college, against Kearse, Sherman, Baldwin, & Thurmond in college, and recruited Irvin, Turbin, and many others while at USC. It will be interesting to see if Carroll can keep it up the further removed from the college game.

[Mr. WEO]

Decade+ lurker hoping to get some of those aluminum foil caps into the recycling bin:

- The Seahawks have had 7 drug suspensions, not 7 PED suspensions. Irvin & Browner were popped for PEDs. Browner (2nd time) and Thurmond this year were busted for recreational drugs. The other three players who violated the NFL's drug policy are no longer on the team. Odds are Irvin will be the only one left in 2014.

- According to Carroll, the point of Seahawks 24/7 is to not mess up off the field thus hurting the team. Things like drug suspensions for example.

- Jermaine Kearse left the University of Washington #2 all-time in receiving yards (2,871) and receiving touchdowns (29). While at the Univ. of Washington he made spectacular catches and some inexplicable drops. Kearse has had laser eye surgery following college, which fixed the problem.

Pete Carroll coached Smith in college, against Kearse, Sherman, Baldwin, & Thurmond in college, and recruited Irvin, Turbin, and many others while at USC. It will be interesting to see if Carroll can keep it up the further removed from the college game.

 

Awesome post! Surgically dissecting the crazies and homers.

 

But...let's hope you got that all out of your system. You will soon be getting your script and talking points to get you back on the reservation.

Edited February 9, 2014 by Mr. WEO

[machine gun kelly]

Goodwin is part of that mix as the R3 pick. He's already better than TJ. It will be interesting to see how pMeeks and d.williams end up too, though I think they were selected to fit into Pettine's scheme. Good topic.

 

Good comment on Goodwin. Hopefully we take Evans in the first (6'5") an athletic TE, and maybe another WR or TE later (I assume Chandler's gone). We have the speed with Goodwin, excellent route running in SJ and RW. We need size now and we may have a real offense vs. 29th this year.

 

I wish I could be the one to fire Graham. He has dropped so many balls these past two years.

[Bill from NYC]

If people remember, when Marv Levy took over as GM he let everyone know that his gameplan was to emulate how the Patriots took a bunch of no-names, retreads and low pedigrees and turned them into a dynasty.

 

He promptly went out and signed a cast of about 15 scrubs in free agency to try to replicate that Patriots chemistry. Some of them to laughably generous contracts.

 

Unfortunately, it turns out that the Patriot magic.........that uncanny ability to be able to plug ANYBODY in and have them always be at the right place at the right time........was very much the result of knowing exactly what play the opposition was running.

 

Not surprisingly, Levy's attempt to copy their plan was a laughably ridiculous failure. None of them provided much of an impact. They just played exactly like the scrubs that they were.

 

So do I think the Bills should scour the draft board and take a run at 6'3" cornerbacks that run a 4.7 and expect them to transform the Bills into Seattle east? Uh, no.

 

Badol, since I am reading this on a computer screen and not at one of our tailgates, I am going on my gut that the above are serious comments, all true I might add. And it doesn't even take into account Levy's 2006 draft, which was unthinkably bad. As awful as anything one could imagine, except perhaps his hiring of Jauron.

 

That said, when I finished reading this, for some reason I started laughing. It struck me that being a Bills Fan, while not for the timid, involves as much comedy as pain. We have a new poster with the screen name, "Pills and Bills." This says a great deal, no?

 

Screw it. I'm gonna watch free agency, hope for a good draft, and keep on going.

 

GO BILLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[BADOLBILZ]

Decade+ lurker hoping to get some of those aluminum foil caps into the recycling bin:

- The Seahawks have had 7 drug suspensions, not 7 PED suspensions. Irvin & Browner were popped for PEDs. Browner (2nd time) and Thurmond this year were busted for recreational drugs. The other three players who violated the NFL's drug policy are no longer on the team. Odds are Irvin will be the only one left in 2014.

- According to Carroll, the point of Seahawks 24/7 is to not mess up off the field thus hurting the team. Things like drug suspensions for example.

- Jermaine Kearse left the University of Washington #2 all-time in receiving yards (2,871) and receiving touchdowns (29). While at the Univ. of Washington he made spectacular catches and some inexplicable drops. Kearse has had laser eye surgery following college, which fixed the problem.

Pete Carroll coached Smith in college, against Kearse, Sherman, Baldwin, & Thurmond in college, and recruited Irvin, Turbin, and many others while at USC. It will be interesting to see if Carroll can keep it up the further removed from the college game.

 

For some reason my response was deleted but let me re-write:

 

It's natural for the accusations to offend the fans of that team.

 

If it's true, it will almost certainly come to light at some point.

 

But keep in mind, I don't have a dog in this fight. I am just warning Bills fans about taking what IMO is a dead end street approach to drafting.

 

This is about what I have seen with my own two eyes and my experience closely following the NFL and NCAA for the past 25 years.

 

If I knew nothing about the PED accusations I would still be raising an eyebrow based on what I see.

 

Frankly, the results are too good to be true and while I appreciate Pete Carroll's ability and I know that college coaches have insight on these players.....see David Shaw and his brow raising declaration of Kiko Alonso as a pro bowl talent post draft...... I find it difficult to believe that Jim Harbaugh didn't understand how good those same players were.

 

The fact that there aren't more suspensions doesn't surprise me. I explained what I think their 24/7 program is all about.

 

How many known BALCO users never tested positive?

 

Not getting caught is at least half of the game for dopers.

 

And in fairness let me add that when Victor Conte got busted fwiw, there was reportedly an autographed picture of Bills DE and uber-clean imaged Phil Hansen on his wall so I am not proclaiming that anyone is completely innocent.

[BADOLBILZ]

Badol, since I am reading this on a computer screen and not at one of our tailgates, I am going on my gut that the above are serious comments, all true I might add. And it doesn't even take into account Levy's 2006 draft, which was unthinkably bad. As awful as anything one could imagine, except perhaps his hiring of Jauron.

 

That said, when I finished reading this, for some reason I started laughing. It struck me that being a Bills Fan, while not for the timid, involves as much comedy as pain. We have a new poster with the screen name, "Pills and Bills." This says a great deal, no?

 

Screw it. I'm gonna watch free agency, hope for a good draft, and keep on going.

 

GO BILLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Yeah, Levy was double dipping on taking the wrong path to team building in that draft. Bob Sanders and Troy Polamalu were great undersized safeties so Marv wanted an undersized safety of his own. The Niners subsequently proved that you need 7 horses to pull that cart. The Bills were short about 4-5 players in the front 7. I do like that Pills and Bills. It's doubly reflective because the meds/booze are very important to enduring a Bills season now.........and since the team has a shortage of young fans due to irrelevance a higher percentage of us Bills are getting old and need pills for one ailment or another.

 

Carroll is also jacked up on the sidelines all the time. Maybe hes on PED's too?

 

Teams take on the personality of their coaches many times.

 

Look at harbaugh and the niners.

 

The saints with payton

 

The Bills with marrone. Obviously.

 

I don't think coaches get tested. He could go Cenegenics if he wanted to I think.

 

Wasn't Pete living with a co-ed or a grad student when he quit USC? Viagra?

[Bill from NYC]

I do like that Pills and Bills. It's doubly reflective because the meds/booze are very important to enduring a Bills season now.........and since the team has a shortage of young fans due to irrelevance a higher percentage of us Bills are getting old and need pills for one ailment or another.

 

Years ago there was a poster with a suicidal screen name that I wish I could remember. He was having an intelligent discussion here with a poster called "Pass the Pipe." It was great!

The "Pills and Bills" name does evoke images of a depressed Bills Fan watching the game with a six pack, a couple of Prozacs and yes, blood pressure medication.

And yes, we are getting older. If you see someone called "20 mg. Zocor from NYC," it will be me with a new screen name.

Edited February 9, 2014 by Bill from NYC

[Sisyphean Bills]

I don't think coaches get tested. He could go Cenegenics if he wanted to I think.

 

Wasn't Pete living with a co-ed or a grad student when he quit USC? Viagra?

 

Charlie Weis was giving (poorly) some sort of hypothetical apparently.

 

http://articles.latimes.com/2009/dec/07/sports/la-sp-charlie-weis-carroll7-2009dec07

[Maury Ballstein]

Badol you should hire a PI and put these Seahawks away once and for all.

 

Nice post kingdom, congrats to the Seahawks what a season.

 

 

[Billshank Redemption]

probably one of the most interesting threads on here for awhile. I guess the point is either way whatever they are doing is working and working well. I think the thing about the Seahawks that makes them so perplexing to everyone is the fact that in all truthfulness they won the big one without a "star" player (sure you could say Sherman or Thomas but neither of those positions is important enough to do it themselves). We have spent the last decade learning how an elite QB (and with good stats to back the claim up) is the only way to a Super Bowl and they just blew that idea out of the water.

 

No matter what they are on they have unbelievable depth. They lost browner they didnt miss a beat, Harvin missed 95% of the season no biggie. They have significant depth EVERYWHERE.

 

Furthermore the most underrated aspect of the coaches is their ability to know when a player is ready. Christine Michael spent basically the whole season behind lynch and if at the end of next year Lynch cap hit becomes too much they will be ready to roll with him. They say when you are driving you need to look 12 seconds ahead. The true dynasties of this league see 2 seasons ahead. Most of their late picks get that extra time to develop into the mold of what they want and therefore when they are thrust into battle they are much better than other teams.

 

Problem is you have to have a good core to do that and right now the bills have too many holes to make moves like that. That being said I wouldn't at all be upset seeing a 3-5th rounder taken on an RB or something along those lines.

[bobobonators]

 

 

For some reason my response was deleted but let me re-write:

 

It's natural for the accusations to offend the fans of that team.

 

If it's true, it will almost certainly come to light at some point.

 

But keep in mind, I don't have a dog in this fight. I am just warning Bills fans about taking what IMO is a dead end street approach to drafting.

 

This is about what I have seen with my own two eyes and my experience closely following the NFL and NCAA for the past 25 years.

 

If I knew nothing about the PED accusations I would still be raising an eyebrow based on what I see.

 

Frankly, the results are too good to be true and while I appreciate Pete Carroll's ability and I know that college coaches have insight on these players.....see David Shaw and his brow raising declaration of Kiko Alonso as a pro bowl talent post draft...... I find it difficult to believe that Jim Harbaugh didn't understand how good those same players were.

 

The fact that there aren't more suspensions doesn't surprise me. I explained what I think their 24/7 program is all about.

 

How many known BALCO users never tested positive?

 

Not getting caught is at least half of the game for dopers.

 

And in fairness let me add that when Victor Conte got busted fwiw, there was reportedly an autographed picture of Bills DE and uber-clean imaged Phil Hansen on his wall so I am not proclaiming that anyone is completely innocent.

 

The results are too good to be true? No.

 

Did they go undefeated this season? No.

 

Did they blow everyone out in the playoffs by +20pts every single game? No.

 

What about Jim Harbaugh? He was in the NFC championship game this year and in the super bowl last year. Poor jimmy, he mustve gotten a bad batch of PEDs for his team this season.

 

No personal offense but your PED advantage conspiracy theory is baseless and offends the mind.

 

Are some players on the Hawks on PEDS? Of course they are, just as they are on every other NFL team.

 

When seattle goes to 4 straight Super Bowls or goes undefeated, or wins every game by 20 pts maybe you can start your conspiracy theory then.

 

Seattle did nothing this season that hasnt been done before. They are an awesome team with awesome talent with a coach that works for that franchise.

Edited February 9, 2014 by bobobonators

[Kingdome]

For some reason my response was deleted but let me re-write:

 

It's natural for the accusations to offend the fans of that team.

 

If it's true, it will almost certainly come to light at some point.

 

But keep in mind, I don't have a dog in this fight. I am just warning Bills fans about taking what IMO is a dead end street approach to drafting.

 

This is about what I have seen with my own two eyes and my experience closely following the NFL and NCAA for the past 25 years.

 

If I knew nothing about the PED accusations I would still be raising an eyebrow based on what I see.

 

It was the Jermaine Kearse remark that caught my attention the most, not the PED stuff. I am sure all NFL locker rooms have offenders. After baseball, cycling, Olympics, etc., it is pretty clear that it runs deep and rampant in sports.

 

Jermaine Kearse was a stud at the University of Washington. Syracuse fans may remember the 179 yards and 3 TDs he had against them in 2010. I was shocked he was not drafted. It was the silly drops that cost him. The eye surgery has done wonders for him. If I ran an NFL organization, I'd have an eye specialist be apart of the scouting staff.

 

As for Seahawks 24/7, it was designed to dissuade players from getting season ending injuries in Pioneer Square bar fights, DUIs, drug suspensions, and breaking into doughnut shops in the middle of the night. Another Pete Carroll mantra is competition. If you are hungover at practice or missing time for a drug suspension, you will likely lose your spot to someone more hungry. I wouldn't be surprised the adderall issues stem from the grueling film sessions Russell Wilson and Earl Thomas put them through.

[Mr. WEO]

For some reason my response was deleted but let me re-write:

 

 

In that deleted post did you actually address the points kingdome made to deflate your conspiracy theory?

 

Here, bobononator has another whack at your paranoia:

 

 

 

The results are too good to be true? No.

 

Did they go undefeated this season? No.

 

Did they blow everyone out in the playoffs by +20pts every single game? No.

 

What about Jim Harbaugh? He was in the NFC championship game this year and in the super bowl last year. Poor jimmy, he mustve gotten a bad batch of PEDs for his team this season.

 

No personal offense but your PED advantage conspiracy theory is baseless and offends the mind.

 

Are some players on the Hawks on PEDS? Of course they are, just as they are on every other NFL team.

 

When seattle goes to 4 straight Super Bowls or goes undefeated, or wins every game by 20 pts maybe you can start your conspiracy theory then.

 

Seattle did nothing this season that hasnt been done before. They are an awesome team with awesome talent with a coach that works for that franchise.

 

Excellent post. Unfortunately, wasted on several here....

Edited February 10, 2014 by Mr. WEO