Best draft in the last 5 years

[Prickly Pete]

PED's are certainly rampant throughout the NFL. I think every team is raging, but maybe the Seahawks just have a better connection, or approach to using them.

[mannc]

I don't know how you can be so sure about this.

 

I could easily see a team pressuring players to take PED's. It probably wouldn't be overt, but it could still be obvious. It wouldn't be hard to get across, and certain players ("leaders") could be used to get the message across to those that can't figure it out. I think that is the main way it happens. Certain players "mentor" guys, perhaps introduce them to their connection, and maybe even deal.

 

It's not at all some outrageous notion, or beyond possibility.

 

 

 

I think it's possible to have a better "program" developed, whether it's developed by someone directly associated with the team, or someone on the fringe that the team consults.

I believe PED use is rampant within the league; IMO, there are zero teams that are clean. That being said, there seem to be certain teams where it is more accepted (or overtly encouraged) than others, for whatever reason. It could be a strength and conditioning coach who is particularly dialed into the PED "network" or it could be one or more players who promote PED use among their teammates. I have noticed a number of NFL teams that just seem to have more juiced-up looking guys, and some of those teams tend to have more guys getting busted for violating the PED policy (which of course is a bad joke in itself). The Chargers of a few years ago come to mind. The Seahawks seem to fit this profile, as well. I'm sure none of it is "official" Seahawks' policy; it's just a culture that accepts it and possibly promotes it. Edited February 7, 2014 by mannc

[Prickly Pete]

I believe PED use is rampant within the league; IMO, there are zero teams that are clean. That being said, there seem to be certain teams where it is more accepted (or overtly encouraged) than others, for whatever reason. It could be a strength and conditioning coach who is particularly dialed into the PED "network" or it could be one or more players who promote PED use among their teammates. I have noticed a number of NFL teams that just seem to have more juiced-up looking guys, and some of those teams tend to have more guys getting busted for violating the PED policy (which of course is a bad joke in itself). The Chargers of a few years ago come to mind. The Seahawks seem to fit this profile, as well. I'm sure none of it is "official" Seahawks' policy; it's just a culture that accepts it and possibly promotes it.

 

Sounds reasonable to me. I even wonder if a "doctor/chemist" might offer exclusive services to a team, or a team just might get a jump on the rest of the league with a particular dealer.

It's all speculation, and none of us (I don't think?) are close enough to the league to know how these relationships develop. I do know that there are 100's of millions of dollars involved in developing and distributing PED's , and the NFL works with billions of dollars.

 

Nothing would surprise me.

[Mr. WEO]

"We have had great drafts recently. We have a new coaching staff. We have Mario and Kyle and Kiko and Jairus. We have Pro Bowlers!---and yet we are STILL 6-10"

 

"We are doing everything right. Therefore teams like Seattle simply have to be cheating/juicing/spying so their success is fake. We will never stoop to that!"

[3rdand12]

"We have had great drafts recently. We have a new coaching staff. We have Mario and Kyle and Kiko and Jairus. We have Pro Bowlers!---and yet we are STILL 6-10"

 

"We are doing everything right. Therefore teams like Seattle simply have to be cheating/juicing/spying so their success is fake. We will never stoop to that!"

The Bills have problems that cant be fixed by drug use.

Lets see if Marrone and Whaley , incrementally move the needle closer to relevancy and some respect in the league .

Sometimes i dont think folks here abouts realize how far the bar needs to be raised just to have a consistently competitive team ?

This past season was some steps forward and some lessons learned ( i hope ) .

Once we see all the horses pulling in the same direction , then , load up on the drugs for the big race.

Fines be damned suspensions be damned too.

Weo i think you and both will be watching closely for definitive improvement this season coming. and it starts with improving at the player level. Whaley has to do just as well as last off season or better starting now.

And Marrone had better get his offense to show up and look cohesive and focused.

Seahawks should be interesting what the team looks like next season . Did they peak so hard they are due for a crash ? Or do Pete Carroll and that Schnieder have a damned good method .

dont care for the style the defense plays( illegally ) but if the Officials will allow it ya gotta push the boundaries.

Gilmore take note .

Edited February 7, 2014 by 3rdand12

[Prickly Pete]

"We have had great drafts recently. We have a new coaching staff. We have Mario and Kyle and Kiko and Jairus. We have Pro Bowlers!---and yet we are STILL 6-10"

 

"We are doing everything right. Therefore teams like Seattle simply have to be cheating/juicing/spying so their success is fake. We will never stoop to that!"

 

No.

I think the Bills are juicing just as MUCH as any other team, just maybe not as WELL. The chemicals are only one ingredient in the success of a team.

Edited February 7, 2014 by Marauder'sMicro

[3rdand12]

No.

I think the Bills are juicing just as MUCH as any other team, just maybe not as WELL.

What ? we suck at that too ?

I think they are not with the juicing. The team seems pretty mellow to me

Edited February 7, 2014 by 3rdand12

[Prickly Pete]

What ? we suck at that too ?

I think they are not with the juicing. The team seems pretty mellow to me

 

 

I'm sure the PED business is as competitive as the business of football. Getting a hold of the best stuff, and getting the best masking agents, and maximizing their effects etc., is surely an art unto itself. It would make sense that some teams would be better at it than others.

 

Taking larger doses probably demands a bit more "commitment" from a player, and some teams might demand more commitment. Pete Carroll is all about high competitiveness WITHIN the team. All teams have that, but It's something that is stressed about Carroll's teams.

 

I certainly don't think it's the only reason the Seahawks were the best team this season, but it could have been a factor.

[3rdand12]

I'm sure the PED business is as competitive as the business of football. Getting a hold of the best stuff, and getting the best masking agents, and maximizing their effects etc., is surely an art unto itself. It would make sense that some teams would be better at it than others.

 

Taking larger doses probably demands a bit more "commitment" from a player, and some teams might demand more commitment. Pete Carroll is all about high competitiveness WITHIN the team. All teams have that, but It's something that is stressed about Carroll's teams.

 

I certainly don't think it's the only reason the Seahawks were the best team this season, but it could have been a factor.

It sure could have. like i said , lets see what they field next year. There is a cycle to PED use and to maximize them at the right time probably has some science to it

[Prickly Pete]

It sure could have. like i said , lets see what they field next year. There is a cycle to PED use and to maximize them at the right time probably has some science to it

 

There are also lots of "labs" that are competing for business just like any other, and some are more advanced than others. Honestly, with the amount of money involved, a football team could finance their own "medical research labs" as a silent partner.

 

I realize that might sound overly conspiratorial, but like I said, nothing would surprise me.

[3rdand12]

There are also lots of "labs" that are competing for business just like any other, and some are more advanced than others. Honestly, with the amount of money involved, a football team could finance their own "medical research labs" as a silent partner.

 

I realize that might sound overly conspiratorial, but like I said, nothing would surprise me.

That does sound a bit tin foilish . But not much would surprise me either . Like Carroll plays the game on the edge or beyond of legal in pass coverage . why wouldn't he have that as a mission statement ?

[Prickly Pete]

I could easily see a team giving backing to a "researcher", and have exclusive use of their product. It's not that outlandish, in fact it would seem like a natural development in the course that sports and PED's have taken. So much money involved.

Edited February 8, 2014 by Marauder'sMicro

[firemedic]

The consistently finding value in the later rounds, and the overall balance on the Seahawks is pretty amazing. Wilson makes the plays that he needs to, when they are needed; but the Seahawks aren't 100% reliant on him being phenomenal.

 

Contrast this with the "find an elite QB and they can hide a lot of other deficiencies" model (Patriots, Packers, Broncos).

 

Not sure if one or the other is better, just different philosophy... I would be happy if the Bills could get close to either.

Just wait until RW starts really coming on, he's only year two.........

[BADOLBILZ]

Everything you say is within the realm of possibility except this. IMO, like baseball any use is at the player level and doesn't involve anyone employed by the team. Are they aware? Almost certainly. Are they actively involved in a program? No.

 

To be clear, I don't mean that the training staff is handing out paper cups full of pills for the players to take.

 

It is certainly the players making the decision and ultimately securing the goods.

 

And the lesser talented the player.....the more they have to gain by cheating.

 

I think that the team is probably well aware of what is going on and their direct role is probably actively protecting them from positive tests.

 

As in saying "make sure you do this to prevent a FALSE positive" when in fact they know that the players are using and exactly what they are working to cover up.

 

One criticism of my take was that if they were so good at it, why all the positive test results? The answer is because their use is that rampant. Any longtime alcoholic can probably tell you that they might have driven drunk hundreds of times before ever getting caught.

 

Another criticism in this thread suggested it was ludicrous to think that one team would have a better PED program.......but that is actually the way it would work. When BALCO was juicing Barry Bonds and a few others they weren't juicing everybody. Their objective wasn't to get caught.

 

Where this all plays in to this discussion......how it relates to the Bills......is that it is not a good idea to follow championship plan that was fraudulently constructed to start with.

 

If people remember, when Marv Levy took over as GM he let everyone know that his gameplan was to emulate how the Patriots took a bunch of no-names, retreads and low pedigrees and turned them into a dynasty.

 

He promptly went out and signed a cast of about 15 scrubs in free agency to try to replicate that Patriots chemistry. Some of them to laughably generous contracts.

 

Unfortunately, it turns out that the Patriot magic.........that uncanny ability to be able to plug ANYBODY in and have them always be at the right place at the right time........was very much the result of knowing exactly what play the opposition was running.

 

Not surprisingly, Levy's attempt to copy their plan was a laughably ridiculous failure. None of them provided much of an impact. They just played exactly like the scrubs that they were.

 

So do I think the Bills should scour the draft board and take a run at 6'3" cornerbacks that run a 4.7 and expect them to transform the Bills into Seattle east? Uh, no.

Edited February 8, 2014 by BADOLBEELZ

[YoloinOhio]

It's not just the draft picks.

 

Case in point: Brandon Browner.......who couldn't make it in the NFL and went to Canada.....then suddenly returns to the NFL as that rarest of animal.....a 6'4" Pro Bowl CB.

 

Of course his "lifetime" suspension in November didn't really slow the Seahawks because they have a secondary full of big guys who are somehow twice the player they were expected to be.

 

Ahem.

 

The Seahawks have had 7 PED suspensions in the last 3 years......Richard Sherman had his overturned on a technicality after claiming he drank from a teammates adderall laced water bottle.

 

Which come to think of it might be a great way to keep energy flowing and mentally sharp for 3 hours every Sunday.

 

My strong suspicion is that the Seahawks have the finest PED program in the league........perhaps ever......and that in a few years people will look back and say it was too obvious to miss.

 

I would call that program "Seahawks 24/7" which means diligently following the trainers guidelines for staying jacked while keeping it masked to prevent a positive drug test.

 

I saw a lot of these guys in college........including a complete non-prospect named Jermaine Kearse......and their improvement is uttlerly too good to be true.

 

My belief is that they haven't actually drafted that well....but the combination of an unscrupulous head coach and a desperate need to match the super talented Niners caused the 'Hawks to develop Seahawks 24/7.

Hmmm.... I would not put it past Pete with some of the stuff at USC. I have had some suspicions as well about their corners. Interesting.. wonder if any of this is for real but very good points made.

[Prickly Pete]

 

Unfortunately, it turns out that the Patriot magic.........that uncanny ability to be able to plug ANYBODY in and have them always be at the right place at the right time........was very much the result of knowing exactly what play the opposition was running.

 

 

 

C'mon dude. The Pats likely had some advantage in some games, but they have played at a very high level consistently for a long time, and I really don't think they have had the other teams gameplan for all those games.

 

As far as the seahawks are concerned, it's interesting that they have signed and released a whole bunch more players that most other teams. Maybe besides just talent, they were looking for guys that showed "commitment".

[BADOLBILZ]

C'mon dude. The Pats likely had some advantage in some games, but they have played at a very high level consistently for a long time, and I really don't think they have had the other teams gameplan for all those games.

 

As far as the seahawks are concerned, it's interesting that they have signed and released a whole bunch more players that most other teams. Maybe besides just talent, they were looking for guys that showed "commitment".

 

It's easy to forget just how pedestrian the talent on those early 2000's Patriots teams was. They really did have a cast of scrubs.

 

I am an admirer of the work of Belichick......but the reality is that the unbelievable Patriot magic in those early years was significantly fraudulent.

 

Since soon after spygate their defense has gone from incedibly intuitive to an actual weakness.

[l< j]

The Bills have problems that cant be fixed by drug use.

 

Theirs or ours?

[Prickly Pete]

It's easy to forget just how pedestrian the talent on those early 2000's Patriots teams was. They really did have a cast of scrubs.

 

I am an admirer of the work of Belichick......but the reality is that the unbelievable Patriot magic in those early years was significantly fraudulent.

 

Since soon after spygate their defense has gone from incedibly intuitive to an actual weakness.

 

I think that's a whole different topic.

[agardin]

Honestly, I just assume the vast majority of NFL players are on something. They don't test for HGH so......

 

Pete Carrol may not be the most liked coach on this board but his players clearly love him. No team plays harder and seems to have more fun. I believe Carrol was also named the coach most NFL players would want to play for.

 

Carrol spoke of creating a home for his players, showing them he cared and that he could work with them.

 

BS?

 

Probably....but his philosophy has translated into a winning program where players have bought in. This likely allowed he Seahawks to draft certain players that others would not take as their approach is to build players up. When you do that you may end up with a few more bad apples, but bad apples that can play.

 

Perhaps this approach would pay dividends with players like Dareus, SJ and would have allowed the Bills to keep a guy like Marshawn productive while in a Bills uniform.

 

Dare I mention the name Da'Rick?

 

There are different approaches to coaching and ball breakers win too. Whatever the approach, the coach needs a winning culture and buy in. Do the Bills appear to be heading that way, I say yes but the jury is still out.