thewildrabbit Posted February 6, 2014 Posted February 6, 2014 You definitely made some solid points and I appreciate the discussion. As for SD, it's a good example. Flunker did help no doubt. But they also drafted a rookie of the year receiver and had an entirely new coaching staff. So there are a lot of factors. Also, they were really an 8-8 football team (they lost the KC game to backups but the refs beat them) so it was only a 1 game improvement from 2012. Thanks Again you didn't read my post as QB Phillip Rivers threw for almost 1000 more yards, and was sacks 19 fewer times! Those are huge stats in my view. Not to mention that Rivers played for a known QB guru in Norv Turner in 2012. So I doubt the offensive passing coaching improved that drastically. Wouldn't you agree that the rookie WR did so well because Rivers had more time in the pocket to throw? The disparity of the quarterback rating from 40.57 in 2012 which was very toilet bowl like, to 71.69 and voted to the pro bowl is huge. BTW guess who else had a QBR of 42.26 last season. yea, EJ. Thad Lewis was 24.07, and Jeff Tuel was 9.58 I see the biggest improvement in terms of a different LG, a different LT, and a rookie RT. It might have only been one more win in the difference between the seasons. However the difference in the play of the entire offense, and the QB was astounding in my view.
3rdand12 Posted February 6, 2014 Posted February 6, 2014 Thank you thank you thank you! Finally I see someone else agree with what I was thinking re: the guard situation. In 2011/12 Urbik looked decidedly better than he did in 2013. While it may have been partially due to the scheme change, I think the weakness at LG also changed his effectiveness. With Levitre at LG, Eric Wood could probably leave it up to Levitre to handle his man 1-on-1 95% of the time. This allowed Wood to then chip on Urbik's man and head to the second level or double team Urbik's man. With Levitre gone, Urbik became the stronger of the 2 guards. Thus, Wood would have to help Legursky/Brown more frequently, leaving Urbik on his own, where he was much less effective. Long story short: Fix the LG and RT spots, Urbik as the weak link means your OL is pretty darn solid. Agreed . I know there are guys who study the line much more than i do but thats what i felt occurred . Think its fair to keep in mind that Marrone is trying to run a power football game. He wants/hell maybe even demands, to run inside the tackles. As i mention repeatedly . The O line must be fixed to move the offense forward to competent. It doesnt have to be first round and a big FA splash. But if they draft one of those four from Drafteks list early , i wont B word.
808 Posted February 7, 2014 Posted February 7, 2014 I'm still not big on a RT at 9 i think if the bills go that route with robinson and if the can get austin seferain jenkins in the 2nd and maybe cyril richardson in the third(his run blocking is really good, pass pro seems like the weakness) that cold really do wonders for this team. sustaining drives longer behind the running game(bills were number 1 in attempts) hopefully it would get us at the top of productivity as well. take pressure off the defense and help the play action. still would love to see sammy watkins/ebron in a bills uni but robinsosn-ASJ-richardson would be sweet. it would be great to see the bills just running it down a teams throat week in and out.
TPS Posted February 7, 2014 Author Posted February 7, 2014 I'm still not big on a RT at 9 i think if the bills go that route with robinson and if the can get austin seferain jenkins in the 2nd and maybe cyril richardson in the third(his run blocking is really good, pass pro seems like the weakness) that cold really do wonders for this team. sustaining drives longer behind the running game(bills were number 1 in attempts) hopefully it would get us at the top of productivity as well. take pressure off the defense and help the play action. still would love to see sammy watkins/ebron in a bills uni but robinsosn-ASJ-richardson would be sweet. it would be great to see the bills just running it down a teams throat week in and out. Yo 5-0, i think someone posted a link in this thread with an article that argues the distinction between LT and RT is significantly less now due to the way teams move pass rushers around. you need 2 good OTs, and all of those projected in R1 can play either side.
3rdand12 Posted February 7, 2014 Posted February 7, 2014 I'm still not big on a RT at 9 i think if the bills go that route with robinson and if the can get austin seferain jenkins in the 2nd and maybe cyril richardson in the third(his run blocking is really good, pass pro seems like the weakness) that cold really do wonders for this team. sustaining drives longer behind the running game(bills were number 1 in attempts) hopefully it would get us at the top of productivity as well. take pressure off the defense and help the play action. still would love to see sammy watkins/ebron in a bills uni but robinsosn-ASJ-richardson would be sweet. it would be great to see the bills just running it down a teams throat week in and out. kickin it olde school
808 Posted February 7, 2014 Posted February 7, 2014 Yo 5-0, i think someone posted a link in this thread with an article that argues the distinction between LT and RT is significantly less now due to the way teams move pass rushers around. you need 2 good OTs, and all of those projected in R1 can play either side. i totally agree with needing 2 book end OTs to help with those defenses that move pass rushers around. and it would probably be wise to take one of those OT at 9. but part of me wants a playmaker type at 9. robinson at 9 probably would provide us the most impact tho for the running game and sustained drives.
Section242 Posted February 7, 2014 Posted February 7, 2014 (edited) Thanks Again you didn't read my post as QB Phillip Rivers threw for almost 1000 more yards, and was sacks 19 fewer times! Those are huge stats in my view. Not to mention that Rivers played for a known QB guru in Norv Turner in 2012. So I doubt the offensive passing coaching improved that drastically. Wouldn't you agree that the rookie WR did so well because Rivers had more time in the pocket to throw? The disparity of the quarterback rating from 40.57 in 2012 which was very toilet bowl like, to 71.69 and voted to the pro bowl is huge. BTW guess who else had a QBR of 42.26 last season. yea, EJ. Thad Lewis was 24.07, and Jeff Tuel was 9.58 I see the biggest improvement in terms of a different LG, a different LT, and a rookie RT. It might have only been one more win in the difference between the seasons. However the difference in the play of the entire offense, and the QB was astounding in my view. He also lost Vincent Jackson and they failed to replace him. They replaced him this year with a viable option in Allen. Also brought in Woodhead. Antonio Gates also had a much better year this year than last. If they want E.J. to be their guy i'd draft Mike Evans or Ebron. If they want an easy way out draft an offensive lineman. Edited February 7, 2014 by Section242
thewildrabbit Posted February 7, 2014 Posted February 7, 2014 He also lost Vincent Jackson and they failed to replace him. They replaced him this year with a viable option in Allen. Also brought in Woodhead. Antonio Gates also had a much better year this year than last. If they want E.J. to be their guy i'd draft Mike Evans or Ebron. If they want an easy way out draft an offensive lineman. Yet the 19 less sacks don't account for anything? If the Bills want EJ to be their man they had better protect him better. How on earth does anyone expect EJ to develop into a franchise QB getting hit 108 times like the Bills QB's did last year, or getting sacked 48 times. Oh, the Chargers tried to replace Jackson with WR Robert Meachem. You know, the same failed #1 draft pick of the NO Saints that the Bills tried to acquire in free agency, but luckily lost out to San Diego. I suppose the fact that the Bills spent #2 & #3 draft picks on WRs in last years draft is lost on you? Then in 2012 traded up in the draft to get TJ Graham at #3. So, rather then see if any of those three WR's drafted in the first three rounds the last two years develop into anything worthwhile. Go ahead and draft another WR that could take a few years to develop into a top NFL WR. Meanwhile EJ, Lewis & Tuel are getting the snot beaten out of them because the team failed again to upgrade the line! NFN, but under different circumstances I'd love a LBer like Mack, a top WR like Watkins or Evans, or a top TE like Ebron at #9. The Bills need to stop thinking that they can get by with scrubs on that O line.
thewildrabbit Posted February 7, 2014 Posted February 7, 2014 i totally agree with needing 2 book end OTs to help with those defenses that move pass rushers around. and it would probably be wise to take one of those OT at 9. but part of me wants a playmaker type at 9. robinson at 9 probably would provide us the most impact tho for the running game and sustained drives. Thank you 808 Sustaining drives should be one of the most important areas to improve as the Bills were so bad at just that very thing last year. Its a big reason as to why that 2013 Bills top 10 overall defense, and #5 against the pass defense still looked so bad at times. The offense couldn't sustain drives so the defense was on the field far to long, and by the time the fourth quarter rolled around they simply weren't very effective. Just imagine running it down the Patriots throats and keeping the ball away from Brady! Because there is no way the Bills will win a shootout.
TPS Posted February 7, 2014 Author Posted February 7, 2014 There's an article on BB.com that has Kiper's discussion of these 3+ a few others who might go in R1. He says these 3 will probably grade higher than any OT taken in R1 last year. Good crop. http://www.buffalobills.com/news/article-2/Kiper-Top-3-OTs-better-than-2013-trio/d207b2da-20d3-4e4d-9ffc-0f07e2ea0f22
C.Biscuit97 Posted February 7, 2014 Posted February 7, 2014 Yet the 19 less sacks don't account for anything? If the Bills want EJ to be their man they had better protect him better. How on earth does anyone expect EJ to develop into a franchise QB getting hit 108 times like the Bills QB's did last year, or getting sacked 48 times. Oh, the Chargers tried to replace Jackson with WR Robert Meachem. You know, the same failed #1 draft pick of the NO Saints that the Bills tried to acquire in free agency, but luckily lost out to San Diego. I suppose the fact that the Bills spent #2 & #3 draft picks on WRs in last years draft is lost on you? Then in 2012 traded up in the draft to get TJ Graham at #3. So, rather then see if any of those three WR's drafted in the first three rounds the last two years develop into anything worthwhile. Go ahead and draft another WR that could take a few years to develop into a top NFL WR. Meanwhile EJ, Lewis & Tuel are getting the snot beaten out of them because the team failed again to upgrade the line! NFN, but under different circumstances I'd love a LBer like Mack, a top WR like Watkins or Evans, or a top TE like Ebron at #9. The Bills need to stop thinking that they can get by with scrubs on that O line. I'm back in!!! I think you are under this magical thought process that 1st round OTs don't bust. When in fact, there is a huge bust rate for OTs. And the odds are there is a 3rd or 4th round OT who will end up as good as anyone picked in the 1st. Basically, I'll call for a truce and comparison. I want a WR, you want an OT, let's agree on a TE. There is no bigger mismatch in the NFL than a good TE on a S or LB. The Bills need more mismatchs. And guess what happens if you have receivers who demand double teams? Defenses will have to rush less guys. DeaL? There's an article on BB.com that has Kiper's discussion of these 3+ a few others who might go in R1. He says these 3 will probably grade higher than any OT taken in R1 last year. Good crop. http://www.buffalobi...fc-0f07e2ea0f22 Kiper said there was no way Glenn could be a LT in the NFL. I'd hardly consider him an oline guru. In fact, I'd trust some posters' opinion over his.
TPS Posted February 7, 2014 Author Posted February 7, 2014 Kiper said there was no way Glenn could be a LT in the NFL. I'd hardly consider him an oline guru. In fact, I'd trust some posters' opinion over his. In my haste to post before some work, I forgot to put a "Kiper Kaveat"....You can criticize everyone's expert opinion, even the experts because, as we all know, the draft can be a crap shoot--R1 busts and R6 hall of famers... I don't have the time to watch film, so they are my source for better or worse...
thewildrabbit Posted February 7, 2014 Posted February 7, 2014 (edited) I'm back in!!! I think you are under this magical thought process that 1st round OTs don't bust. When in fact, there is a huge bust rate for OTs. And the odds are there is a 3rd or 4th round OT who will end up as good as anyone picked in the 1st. Basically, I'll call for a truce and comparison. I want a WR, you want an OT, let's agree on a TE. There is no bigger mismatch in the NFL than a good TE on a S or LB. The Bills need more mismatchs. And guess what happens if you have receivers who demand double teams? Defenses will have to rush less guys. DeaL? Kiper said there was no way Glenn could be a LT in the NFL. I'd hardly consider him an oline guru. In fact, I'd trust some posters' opinion over his. Welcome back Look at last years draft, 3 of the first 4 picks were used on OT's #1, #2, #4. Then an OG went #7, and again at #10 but wait!! they are supposed to be 3rd round picks!! Then another OT went at 11, and played RT !!! An OT at #19, an OG at #20, and finally a center at 31. I think you are the one that is thinking old school as like a poster stated above, you need two solid OT's because defenses move their best pass rushers all over the place. The Chiefs took an OT #1, while they already have Brandon Albert at LT, so Eric Fisher played RT!! The Jags took OT Luke Joeckle #2, and they already have Eugene Monroe at LT so Joeckle played RT!! The Eagles took OT Lane Johnson #4, and are paying Jason Peters a ton to play LT, so Johnson played RT!! This kinda throws your philosophy right into the ceramic convenience...now doesn't it! Edited February 7, 2014 by FeartheLosing
Nitro Posted February 7, 2014 Posted February 7, 2014 Good teams build from the lines out. Road grading, butt kicking, manimal RT is what the Bills need. Robinson or Lewan.
Section242 Posted February 7, 2014 Posted February 7, 2014 Welcome back Look at last years draft, 3 of the first 4 picks were used on OT's #1, #2, #4. Then an OG went #7, and again at #10 but wait!! they are supposed to be 3rd round picks!! Then another OT went at 11, and played RT !!! An OT at #19, an OG at #20, and finally a center at 31. I think you are the one that is thinking old school as like a poster stated above, you need two solid OT's because defenses move their best pass rushers all over the place. The Chiefs took an OT #1, while they already have Brandon Albert at LT, so Eric Fisher played RT!! The Jags took OT Luke Joeckle #2, and they already have Eugene Monroe at LT so Joeckle played RT!! The Eagles took OT Lane Johnson #4, and are paying Jason Peters a ton to play LT, so Johnson played RT!! This kinda throws your philosophy right into the ceramic convenience...now doesn't it! Joekel was moved to LT after they dumped Monroe. Chances are Albert leaves KC so Fisher will move to LT. Peters was coming off a ruptured achilles.
YoloinOhio Posted February 7, 2014 Posted February 7, 2014 Good teams build from the lines out. Road grading, butt kicking, manimal RT is what the Bills need. Robinson or Lewan. Lewan didn't have a good enough year to go that high. Would need a great combine, IMO.
thewildrabbit Posted February 7, 2014 Posted February 7, 2014 Joekel was moved to LT after they dumped Monroe. Chances are Albert leaves KC so Fisher will move to LT. Peters was coming off a ruptured achilles. Joeckel went on IR after week 5, so whatever reason they then traded Monroe to the Ravens after week 10. Probably because Monroe will be an expensive free agent. The point is Joeckel started at RT. Lane Johnson played all 16 games at RT, while Jason Peters played 16 at LT. That Chiefs O line was a strong point of the team last season, and Andy Reid loves him some tackles. If if they do let Albert go in free agency then i suspect the Chiefs will draft another OT in the first round this year. BTW. Brandon Albert is a free agent, as is Jared Valdheer, as is Eugene Monroe Me personally I'd rather draft an OT at #9, way less expensive, and you are getting a hungry rookie. Also BTW. I think it was DIBS or BUBS who did a study on O linemen and he found that early draft picks on O linemen they tend to stay in the league longer, and pan out as better players.
3rdand12 Posted February 8, 2014 Posted February 8, 2014 Joeckel went on IR after week 5, so whatever reason they then traded Monroe to the Ravens after week 10. Probably because Monroe will be an expensive free agent. The point is Joeckel started at RT. Lane Johnson played all 16 games at RT, while Jason Peters played 16 at LT. That Chiefs O line was a strong point of the team last season, and Andy Reid loves him some tackles. If if they do let Albert go in free agency then i suspect the Chiefs will draft another OT in the first round this year. BTW. Brandon Albert is a free agent, as is Jared Valdheer, as is Eugene Monroe Me personally I'd rather draft an OT at #9, way less expensive, and you are getting a hungry rookie. Also BTW. I think it was DIBS or BUBS who did a study on O linemen and he found that early draft picks on O linemen they tend to stay in the league longer, and pan out as better players. Interesting. so how long will it take for these guys to ramp up to the nfl speed and intellect ?If we are going RT i want plug and play, an immediate upgrade to Pears. Allowing Hackett to design for some running space on the right side. Then we can welcome back the screens pitches etc to Spiller and get him viable again. LG and a fresh mobile , strong RT would invigorate the Offense immediately in my opinion. Preaching to the choir with you FTL . But thats my strong opinion. Robinson i lean towards at least i do today : )
thewildrabbit Posted February 8, 2014 Posted February 8, 2014 Interesting. so how long will it take for these guys to ramp up to the nfl speed and intellect ? If we are going RT i want plug and play, an immediate upgrade to Pears. Allowing Hackett to design for some running space on the right side. Then we can welcome back the screens pitches etc to Spiller and get him viable again. LG and a fresh mobile , strong RT would invigorate the Offense immediately in my opinion. Preaching to the choir with you FTL . But thats my strong opinion. Robinson i lean towards at least i do today : ) No question in my mind, as I agree. It just depends on how exactly the Bills intend to upgrade those two positions. Hopefully the draft, because those players are younger, hungrier, and usually less expensive. Every player entering into the NFL has some sort of an adjustment period, and depending on many factors like coaching, team around them for support, and schemes is generally what determines how fast they develop. If you select a RT at #9 the kid should be a plug and play, and be a strong pro bowl candidate in a few years IMO. I can't tell you how potent that offense would become with a top RT & LG at #1 & #2. That line would dominate teams like the Patriots.
Recommended Posts