K-9 Posted February 4, 2014 Posted February 4, 2014 It's not the same scenario. Last year, there were two teams in the market for a top QB, the Bills and the Jets. This year: Cleveland just drafted Weeden, now they're moving on. Houston thought Schaub was a franchise QB, now they're moving on. Jax just drafted Gabbert, now they're moving on. Ponder just took the Vikings to the playoffs, now they're moving on. Oakland just signed Flynn...who the hell knows what they'll do. Arizona got average play from an old QB, they might move on. The Rams might even move on from Bradford. Demand drives the value of any product, in this case, QB's. Plus, this class was more hyped when Mariota and Hundley were involved. All I've heard lately is that the QB value in this draft is not as high as previously thought. Excellent point. It's like the QB-mad draft of 2011 when four QBs were taken in the first 12 picks. Two of which you've already indicated that are most likely gonna be replaced. GO BILLS!!!
BADOLBILZ Posted February 4, 2014 Posted February 4, 2014 Yes. It is. Point, Set, and Match. All you clowns are doing is giving TG more hype with your grumpy old man opinions and haggis references. Keep up the good work.
Doc Posted February 4, 2014 Posted February 4, 2014 What happens if EJ sucks in his first 6 starts next year or gets hurt? Ride the Thad Lewis and Jeff Tuel train all the way to the offseason? Write off the entire season? Or have another QB in the wings that gets to show what he's got? Then you draft another QB in 2015. Assuming they didn't take a QB in a later round in the upcoming draft. Although how good is he going to look being a rookie and not having a lot of snaps under his belt?
section122 Posted February 4, 2014 Posted February 4, 2014 What happens if EJ sucks in his first 6 starts next year or gets hurt? Ride the Thad Lewis and Jeff Tuel train all the way to the offseason? Write off the entire season? Or have another QB in the wings that gets to show what he's got? Is everyone going to refuse to acknowledge the Matthew stafford comparison? He also played in 10 games his rookie year due to injury with stats that were worse than ejs. He followed that up with 3 games his next year. Then he we went on to throw for 5k yards and 40 Tds in a season. You know what the lions did? Continued to give him weapons and improve the team around him. There is no qb that will be there at 9 that will be worth taking over any of the other positions that would help the bills next year. Excellent point. It's like the QB-mad draft of 2011 when four QBs were taken in the first 12 picks. Two of which you've already indicated that are most likely gonna be replaced. GO BILLS!!! This draft definitely reminds me of that draft with a lot of the same players.
Doc Posted February 4, 2014 Posted February 4, 2014 Excellent point. It's like the QB-mad draft of 2011 when four QBs were taken in the first 12 picks. Two of which you've already indicated that are most likely gonna be replaced. And possibly 3 (Locker). And what about the 2012 draft? Luck was the first overall pick and you have to be the worst team in the NFL to get that pick, RGIII isn't looking so great anymore, Tannehill looks pedestrian, and Wilson, who was the 5th QB taken, looks the best out of them all? Doesn't look like there's a winning stategy for getting that franchise QB.
FireChan Posted February 4, 2014 Posted February 4, 2014 Then you draft another QB in 2015. Assuming they didn't take a QB in a later round in the upcoming draft. Although how good is he going to look being a rookie and not having a lot of snaps under his belt? He might look better than EJ? Or good enough to warrant getting more weapons in 2015 rather than wasting a high pick on a QB. Because I know there isn't gonna be a "for sure can't miss" prospect when we draft in 2015. Maybe we get 10 games out of Derek Carr without an injury and 2 surgeries? I'd like that.
BADOLBILZ Posted February 4, 2014 Posted February 4, 2014 What happens if EJ sucks in his first 6 starts next year or gets hurt? Ride the Thad Lewis and Jeff Tuel train all the way to the offseason? Write off the entire season? Or have another QB in the wings that gets to show what he's got? Precisely. If you have another option at hand, he can get his OTJ training then and the following year isn't a complete re-start with another rookie QB or year 3 of the quest to get EJ the antiquated Parcells-mandated 26 starts. Of course, that is all at the risk of making EJ feel down about himself. I can live with that.
FireChan Posted February 4, 2014 Posted February 4, 2014 Is everyone going to refuse to acknowledge the Matthew stafford comparison? He also played in 10 games his rookie year due to injury with stats that were worse than ejs. He followed that up with 3 games his next year. Then he we went on to throw for 5k yards and 40 Tds in a season. You know what the lions did? Continued to give him weapons and improve the team around him. There is no qb that will be there at 9 that will be worth taking over any of the other positions that would help the bills next year. This draft definitely reminds me of that draft with a lot of the same players. What about the Jake Locker and Blaine Gabbert comparison? How would they look with Calvin Johnson? Is Calvin available at 9?
LB3 Posted February 4, 2014 Posted February 4, 2014 (edited) So, the reason that a QB will be taken with the first or second pick compared to LY is need and has nothing to do with talent. Gotcha. Nothing to do with talent? Ummm, I guess I said that if it fits your argument. I thought I was just bringing up another large factor involved in where players, specifically QB'S, get drafted because you said there was "no comparison" between classes. You're right though. No QB's have ever been pushed higher in the draft than what their ability called for. Just don't ask Sanchez, Gabbert, Ponder, Leinart..... I agree there is more talent this year. But it's not as if it's by leaps and bounds. Edited February 4, 2014 by KikoSeeBallKikoGetBall
FireChan Posted February 4, 2014 Posted February 4, 2014 Nothing to do with talent? Ummm, I guess I said that if it fits your argument. I thought I was just bringing up another large factor involved in where players, specifically QB'S, get drafted because you said there was "no comparison" between classes. You're right though. No QB's have ever been pushed higher in the draft than what their ability called for. Just don't ask Sanchez, Gabbert, Ponder, Leinart..... Or EJ. Couldn't resist.
Doc Posted February 4, 2014 Posted February 4, 2014 He might look better than EJ? Or good enough to warrant getting more weapons in 2015 rather than wasting a high pick on a QB. Because I know there isn't gonna be a "for sure can't miss" prospect when we draft in 2015. Maybe we get 10 games out of Derek Carr without an injury and 2 surgeries? I'd like that. Jameis Winston? And Carr will be a bust.
LB3 Posted February 4, 2014 Posted February 4, 2014 Or EJ. Couldn't resist. I knew I'd run head first into that one.
FireChan Posted February 4, 2014 Posted February 4, 2014 Jameis Winston? And Carr will be a bust. He won't be there when we pick in the 8-12 range.
section122 Posted February 4, 2014 Posted February 4, 2014 What about the Jake Locker and Blaine Gabbert comparison? How would they look with Calvin Johnson? Is Calvin available at 9? So it's almost like you're saying we don't yet know what we have? Hmmm I like that you mention gabbert and locker though. As others have mentioned reaching for a qb to get the third or fourth best off the board is generally not a good strategy. As for you megatron question... It depends how you feel about Watkins or even Evans. They could indeed turn out to be elite receivers. They would certainly see the field though. Drafting a qb in round 1 this year guaranteed that either this year or last years first won't. I don't see how that is a winning strategy.
3rdand12 Posted February 4, 2014 Posted February 4, 2014 Wowee, this thread has gotten legs. I thought the point of the thread was that TG was a hack? we agreed on that days ago
Beerball Posted February 4, 2014 Posted February 4, 2014 Nothing to do with talent? Ummm, I guess I said that if it fits your argument. I thought I was just bringing up another large factor involved in where players, specifically QB'S, get drafted because you said there was "no comparison" between classes. You're right though. No QB's have ever been pushed higher in the draft than what their ability called for. Just don't ask Sanchez, Gabbert, Ponder, Leinart..... I agree there is more talent this year. But it's not as if it's by leaps and bounds. My goodness people like to go off on tangents and draw conclusions. The post I responded to said that this year's QB class was much like last year's QB class (the poster has since put constraints on the statement). Do you agree that they are very similar?
FireChan Posted February 4, 2014 Posted February 4, 2014 So it's almost like you're saying we don't yet know what we have? Hmmm I like that you mention gabbert and locker though. As others have mentioned reaching for a qb to get the third or fourth best off the board is generally not a good strategy. As for you megatron question... It depends how you feel about Watkins or even Evans. They could indeed turn out to be elite receivers. They would certainly see the field though. Drafting a qb in round 1 this year guaranteed that either this year or last years first won't. I don't see how that is a winning strategy. Robert Woods sees the field, so does Goodwin. Does Goodwin not see the field after that we get (insert receiver here)? We spent two high draft picks on WR's last year and they both proved themselves admirably. SJ may not be elite, but he produced some nice seasons with the Amish throwing to him. WR isn't a hole and if we take a WR at 9, he better be a Calvin/AJ Green/Bryant type or it's a wasted pick on a unit we shored up last year. The only real "holes" we have are O-line and maybe LB. I don't see how drafting a QB can mess us up.
LB3 Posted February 4, 2014 Posted February 4, 2014 My goodness people like to go off on tangents and draw conclusions. The post I responded to said that this year's QB class was much like last year's QB class (the poster has since put constraints on the statement). Do you agree that they are very similar? I do. FTR, I'm not a fan of Manziel at all and Bridgewater has been exposed in my mind. I think the talent is about the same as last year. A little better, sure, but not by much.
RuntheDamnBall Posted February 4, 2014 Posted February 4, 2014 Robert Woods sees the field, so does Goodwin. Does Goodwin not see the field after that we get (insert receiver here)? We spent two high draft picks on WR's last year and they both proved themselves admirably. SJ may not be elite, but he produced some nice seasons with the Amish throwing to him. WR isn't a hole and if we take a WR at 9, he better be a Calvin/AJ Green/Bryant type or it's a wasted pick on a unit we shored up last year. The only real "holes" we have are O-line and maybe LB. I don't see how drafting a QB can mess us up. I think LB is no maybe, TE is a definite, and we'll see what happens with Jairus Byrd. O-line has one major hole and realistically two just at the starting positions, and then they could use 1-2 depth players. Thankfully not all of this needs to be solved via the draft.
Beerball Posted February 4, 2014 Posted February 4, 2014 I do. FTR, I'm not a fan of Manziel at all and Bridgewater has been exposed in my mind. I think the talent is about the same as last year. A little better, sure, but not by much. So, talent is the same but 2 and possibly 3 will go in the top 10, yet Manuel was first last year at 16. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree here because I can't find any logic to have a discussion with.
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