1billsfan Posted February 3, 2014 Posted February 3, 2014 If you aren't sure that you have your guy & draft day rolls around & if a guy that you (GM, HC) think could be that guy you would be silly to not take him. The alternative is to wait for another season while you figure out (hopefully) whether that guy you already drafted could be that guy. In your universe it is ok to wait for 3 years before deciding, in mine it isn't. You guys never talk about specific players. I gave you a specific player based on the reality of this coming draft. His name is Derek Carr. I'm not passing over a premier talent to pick Derek Carr and watch him go sit on the bench in 2014. That would be insane. As for waiting on EJ Manuel, that's what normal and successful NFL organizations do. They draft a 1st round QB they feel will eventually become their franchise QB and then they support and develop him for more than one year. So yes, it's ok to wait 3 years on EJ Manuel.
FireChan Posted February 3, 2014 Posted February 3, 2014 You guys never talk about specific players. I gave you a specific player based on the reality of this coming draft. His name is Derek Carr. I'm not passing over a premier talent to pick Derek Carr and watch him go sit on the bench in 2014. That would be insane. As for waiting on EJ Manuel, that's what normal and successful NFL organizations do. They draft a 1st round QB they feel will eventually become their franchise QB and then they support and develop him for more than one year. So yes, it's ok to wait 3 years on EJ Manuel. There's a reason Beerball talks that way. The standards for GM's and coaches are different than a JimKelly69 poster who watched a college highlight reel and said he watched "tape." Whaley might think Derek Carr is great. If he does, he should take him.
RuntheDamnBall Posted February 3, 2014 Posted February 3, 2014 You guys never talk about specific players. I gave you a specific player based on the reality of this coming draft. His name is Derek Carr. I'm not passing over a premier talent to pick Derek Carr and watch him go sit on the bench in 2014. That would be insane. As for waiting on EJ Manuel, that's what normal and successful NFL organizations do. They draft a 1st round QB they feel will eventually become their franchise QB and then they support and develop him for more than one year. So yes, it's ok to wait 3 years on EJ Manuel. I'll bet the NY Giants are kicking themselves for sticking with Eli Manning. But you know, by year 5 he finally got over 60% completions and above an 80 rating. Somehow they won Super Bowls (plural, not Flacco-Dilfer-Brad-Johnson singular) with this bust.
K-9 Posted February 3, 2014 Posted February 3, 2014 (edited) ... I'm not a huge NCAA guy, but from what I've heard/read it is much different. 3-4 could go in the first round this draft and 2-3 higher than where Manuel was drafted. There's more QB talent in this draft, but like last year, there is no Luck-like, blue-chip prospect. That's what it would take for the Bills to draft one at 9, imo. That said, if a QB falls to them that they have rated BPA, then perhaps they pull the trigger. But I doubt that will be the case. GO BILLS!!! Edited February 3, 2014 by K-9
FireChan Posted February 3, 2014 Posted February 3, 2014 I'll bet the NY Giants are kicking themselves for sticking with Eli Manning. But you know, by year 5 he finally got over 60% completions and above an 80 rating. Somehow they won Super Bowls (plural, not Flacco-Dilfer-Brad-Johnson singular) with this bust. What a classic example. You definitely see that happen over and over again. Are the Cowboys kicking themselves for staying with Romo? Are the Vikings with Ponder? Are the Bucs with Freeman? Are the Jags with Gabbert? Are the Jets with Sanchez? But of course, look Eli Manning did it once and Terry Bradshaw got hurt and was good! We definitely don't need EJ insurance.
1billsfan Posted February 3, 2014 Posted February 3, 2014 There's a reason Beerball talks that way. The standards for GM's and coaches are different than a JimKelly69 poster who watched a college highlight reel and said he watched "tape." Whaley might think Derek Carr is great. If he does, he should take him. I think you guys are living in a dream world. I'm amazed, but I guess Tim Graham does have a pulse on what many Bills fans want. IMO there is zero chance that the Bills are picking a QB in the 1st round. I think the Bills are trying to emulate the Giants and Steelers franchises, two very successful organizations that do things by the book. They aren't franchises that throw stuff and on the wall and hope somethings sticks.
Nanker Posted February 3, 2014 Posted February 3, 2014 So if EJ was testy by being knock-out-gamed by Tim Graham Cracker, was Peyton Manning testy by saying he was insulted by the reporter's question that asked him if the SB loss was an "embarrassment"?
RuntheDamnBall Posted February 3, 2014 Posted February 3, 2014 What a classic example. You definitely see that happen over and over again. Are the Cowboys kicking themselves for staying with Romo? Are the Vikings with Ponder? Are the Bucs with Freeman? Are the Jags with Gabbert? Are the Jets with Sanchez? But of course, look Eli Manning did it once and Terry Bradshaw got hurt and was good! We definitely don't need EJ insurance. Am I arguing that they don't need EJ insurance? Because I'm pretty sure I was simply articulating the merits of sticking with a guy beyond one season. Sorry if I wasn't being clear. Insurance is fine. A QB in round 2 or beyond could be great value. Taking the draft's fourth best QB in the top 10 or trading up seems to me a poor plan.
Doc Posted February 3, 2014 Posted February 3, 2014 So if EJ was testy by being knock-out-gamed by Tim Graham Cracker, was Peyton Manning testy by saying he was insulted by the reporter's question that asked him if the SB loss was an "embarrassment"? Being testy is perfectly fine. I doubt there is a player alive who wouldn't be testy at being asked such a question (and then getting the response he did in EJ's case). I still don't see why people think EJ was "hurt" or "angry" over it, or how it shows he can't handle adversity?
Maury Ballstein Posted February 3, 2014 Posted February 3, 2014 Passing on Watkins or Ebron in the first to snag qb would be tough to swallow. Drafting a qb high if EJ falters again should be the plan for 2015 draft not this one imo. EJ might surprise, especially if the OL gets bolstered in the draft.
K-9 Posted February 3, 2014 Posted February 3, 2014 So if EJ was testy by being knock-out-gamed by Tim Graham Cracker, was Peyton Manning testy by saying he was insulted by the reporter's question that asked him if the SB loss was an "embarrassment"? Damn right he was testy. Just as anyone would have been. I liked his answer, too. Locker room full of guys who busted their asses to get there and came up short. There is no embarrassment there at all. At least to anyone who has an appreciation for what's involved. I'm sure Tim Graham would have been the first one to suggest Manning and Co. be embarassed, too. GO BILLS!!!
Beerball Posted February 3, 2014 Posted February 3, 2014 You guys never talk about specific players. I gave you a specific player based on the reality of this coming draft. His name is Derek Carr. I'm not passing over a premier talent to pick Derek Carr and watch him go sit on the bench in 2014. That would be insane. As for waiting on EJ Manuel, that's what normal and successful NFL organizations do. They draft a 1st round QB they feel will eventually become their franchise QB and then they support and develop him for more than one year. So yes, it's ok to wait 3 years on EJ Manuel. I can name a few that the Bills have passed on over the years. Will that make you happy? It is the job of the FO and coaching staff to determine who is slotted where. Maybe you can do a better job than the pros, but, I'll leave the determinations to them. Once they're picked I'll let you know how I feel about the player after I see him play a few games. I'll bet the NY Giants are kicking themselves for sticking with Eli Manning. But you know, by year 5 he finally got over 60% completions and above an 80 rating. Somehow they won Super Bowls (plural, not Flacco-Dilfer-Brad-Johnson singular) with this bust. Different CBA = different universe Teams are no longer hamstrung by huge rookie contracts. There is no danger in drafting a QB in any round if you're the Bills.
NoSaint Posted February 3, 2014 Posted February 3, 2014 I'm not a huge NCAA guy, but from what I've heard/read it is much different. 3-4 could go in the first round this draft and 2-3 higher than where Manuel was drafted. this time last year geno was a #1 and we could be talking barkley or nassib with our picks too though. its a long way to go, and even if someone like johnny football is pretty well locked into a top pick, i would be far from calling him cant miss.
Beerball Posted February 3, 2014 Posted February 3, 2014 this time last year geno was a #1 and we could be talking barkley or nassib with our picks too though. its a long way to go, and even if someone like johnny football is pretty well locked into a top pick, i would be far from calling him cant miss. I didn't say anyone was can't miss. The post I responded to stated that this slate if QB's is much like last year's. I disagree. Last year one QB went in the middle of round 1. This year there will be 2 or 3 taken in the top 10. No comparison.
BADOLBILZ Posted February 3, 2014 Posted February 3, 2014 I'll bet the NY Giants are kicking themselves for sticking with Eli Manning. But you know, by year 5 he finally got over 60% completions and above an 80 rating. Somehow they won Super Bowls (plural, not Flacco-Dilfer-Brad-Johnson singular) with this bust. I am wondering what scenario you guys envision where EJ is somehow immediately released from the team because the Bills acquire a better QB? I think EJ most likely would get 4 years to develop in Buffalo even if the Bills miraculously found a franchise QB elsewhere in the meantime.
Doc Posted February 3, 2014 Posted February 3, 2014 I am wondering what scenario you guys envision where EJ is somehow immediately released from the team because the Bills acquire a better QB? I think EJ most likely would get 4 years to develop in Buffalo even if the Bills miraculously found a franchise QB elsewhere in the meantime. What do you mean by "immediately release?" Because the other QB would have to prove he's better. Which would take at least a season. It would also depend on where in his rookie contract EJ is because if it's at the end, you just let him test FA. And no one gets 4 years to do anything in today's NFL. Not that I don't know what you were really trying to say there.
RuntheDamnBall Posted February 3, 2014 Posted February 3, 2014 Different CBA = different universe Teams are no longer hamstrung by huge rookie contracts. There is no danger in drafting a QB in any round if you're the Bills. The danger I'm speaking of is not of that variety. It's the one where you replace your starter and watch him go on to win titles. BTW, the Chargers, oft cited as smart for their management of the Brees situation and netting Rivers plus picks for Eli, have three fewer titles than the QBs they passed on.
BADOLBILZ Posted February 3, 2014 Posted February 3, 2014 What do you mean by "immediately release?" Because the other QB would have to prove he's better. Which would take at least a season. It would also depend on where in his rookie contract EJ is because if it's at the end, you just let him test FA. And no one gets 4 years to do anything in today's NFL. Not that I don't know what you were really trying to say there. Yeah my point is that he will have a chance to develop whether he is starting or backing up and he will be in Buffalo for a while either way.
LB3 Posted February 3, 2014 Posted February 3, 2014 I didn't say anyone was can't miss. The post I responded to stated that this slate if QB's is much like last year's. I disagree. Last year one QB went in the middle of round 1. This year there will be 2 or 3 taken in the top 10. No comparison. It's not the same scenario. Last year, there were two teams in the market for a top QB, the Bills and the Jets. This year: Cleveland just drafted Weeden, now they're moving on. Houston thought Schaub was a franchise QB, now they're moving on. Jax just drafted Gabbert, now they're moving on. Ponder just took the Vikings to the playoffs, now they're moving on. Oakland just signed Flynn...who the hell knows what they'll do. Arizona got average play from an old QB, they might move on. The Rams might even move on from Bradford. Demand drives the value of any product, in this case, QB's. Plus, this class was more hyped when Mariota and Hundley were involved. All I've heard lately is that the QB value in this draft is not as high as previously thought.
Ramius Posted February 3, 2014 Posted February 3, 2014 As i said...if a QB is available and the FO/HC think he's the guy then you take him. The Seattle GM was on the Dan Patrick show this AM. Of course the talk turned to Wilson. Schneider said (paraphrasing) "we knew Buffalo liked him and we picked after them in the 4th round" so, they pulled the trigger because they thought he could be the guy (I know this occurred in round 3). What did Buffalo do? Nix was bargain shopping and he hoped that Wilson would be there in the 4th round. That forced the Bills hand last draft. I would hate to end up in that position ever again. There is only one good way to get a real live QB and that's through the draft. Teams don't let the good ones go (yes, there have been a couple exceptions). I'm not a huge NCAA guy, but from what I've heard/read it is much different. 3-4 could go in the first round this draft and 2-3 higher than where Manuel was drafted. Seattle was bargain shopping as well. If Schneider really thought Wilson was going to be that good, he wouldn't have waited until the 3rd. When the entire league passes on a guy 2 times, it shows that they think there are some serious flaws in his game. Yes, the entire league was wrong. But blaming the Bills is just plain silliness. You don't draft a guy in the 3rd round as a "franchise" guy. You either take a shot on a QB high, or you settle for lottery tickets in the remainder of the draft.
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