FireChan Posted February 3, 2014 Posted February 3, 2014 EJ is in the top 1% of his field. Where is TG? Plenty of journalists ask tough questions. But a lot do it with class. Guys like Sullivan and Graham severely lack in that department. They want to be part of the story. How many Bills journalists are there? How many people exist that do your job? You might not be qualified enough in your field to criticize TG. EJ is in the top 1% of his field. Where is TG? Plenty of journalists ask tough questions. But a lot do it with class. Guys like Sullivan and Graham severely lack in that department. They want to be part of the story. Huh? As a backup, he's fine. but silly fans inflated his value and act like he was better than RG3. That created a needless distraction. Did you read they're probably going to get a higher pick for him? Why don't we try that?
Rob's House Posted February 3, 2014 Posted February 3, 2014 Guys like Tim Graham and a few posters here who agree with him just are simply not living in the real world. They like to talk about their theory of taking QBs in the first till the Bills find the franchise guy without providing any real names of who will be there when they pick. It's a big waste of time. Yes, we get it, they think EJ Manuel sucks and they want to pick a QB at #9 this year. Ok, specifically who would that be? Reality says that QB's name is Derek Carr. Because Bridgwater, Manziel and Bortles are long gone by #9. Ok, so drafting Derek Carr as EJ's competition is worth passing over Watkins, Robinson, Mack, Benjamin or Ebron? If the Bills did that then they would officially become the worst run franchise in the league overtaking the Browns. I'm not advocating taking Carr at 9, but for argument's sake, there's no guarantee whichever of the guys you mentioned will work out, and all things being equal, if Carr was the pick and did work out it his value would be substantially greater than any of the names you mentioned.
C.Biscuit97 Posted February 3, 2014 Posted February 3, 2014 How many Bills journalists are there? How many people exist that do your job? You might not be qualified enough in your field to criticize TG. Did you read they're probably going to get a higher pick for him? Why don't we try that? I'm great at my field but I get evaluate yearly and my boss won't try to embarrass me publicly. Face it, EJ is in a much better position in life than TG. I'm sure some of those reporters have a little bit of jealousy. You don't think there is a journalist in grad school better than TG? Maybe we should draft him/ her and replace TG. And I'll put $25 up right now that the Slurs don't get higher than a 4th for Cousins. The only team I could imagine being that dumb is the Jags. Cousins is the definition of a backup QB.
Rob's House Posted February 3, 2014 Posted February 3, 2014 EJ is in the top 1% of his field. Where is TG? Plenty of journalists ask tough questions. But a lot do it with class. Guys like Sullivan and Graham severely lack in that department. They want to be part of the story. I'm not commenting on TG one way or the other. I'm just trying to wrap my mind around the philosophy whose tenets hold that a reporter's performance of his duties should be dictated by his fighting ability relative to that of the subject of his article (and apparently also by the subject's ability to write engaging columns?)
1billsfan Posted February 3, 2014 Posted February 3, 2014 Agreed 100%. I used to be in the you need at least 3 years to evaluate a coach or player. Now, I think you get a good idea after 2. But anything before that is flat out stupid. EJ was not like JP Losman as a starter. He had plenty of good moments. Plus, if he fails but you spent 2 high picks on offensive players, the next QB will set into a good situation. People also tend to forget that Manuel had a rookie NFL head coach and a rookie NFL offensive coordinator coming from SU, not exactly an elite college program. I'm expecting a huge improvement in Manuel in year two as long as they can get a real #1 WR and a TE in this coming draft.
C.Biscuit97 Posted February 3, 2014 Posted February 3, 2014 I'm not commenting on TG one way or the other. I'm just trying to wrap my mind around the philosophy whose tenets hold that a reporter's performance of his duties should be dictated by his fighting ability relative to that of the subject of his article (and apparently also by the subject's ability to write engaging columns?) I think guys like TG are cowards. IMO, it was a pretty lousy thing to say to a 23 year old who just finished his rookie year. I also think TG won't say that to EJ if he couldn't hide behind his "job." You really want to live in a world where Jerry Sullivan can call Mario Williams a loser?
Rob's House Posted February 3, 2014 Posted February 3, 2014 People also tend to forget that Manuel had a rookie NFL head coach and a rookie NFL offensive coordinator coming from SU, not exactly an elite college program. I'm expecting a huge improvement in Manuel in year two as long as they can get a real #1 WR and a TE in this coming draft. I've never met you in person so I could be completely off base here, but I'm willing to bet you probably can't take SJ or Chandler in a fight, and therefore I declare that you should retract this statement.
C.Biscuit97 Posted February 3, 2014 Posted February 3, 2014 People also tend to forget that Manuel had a rookie NFL head coach and a rookie NFL offensive coordinator coming from SU, not exactly an elite college program. I'm expecting a huge improvement in Manuel in year two as long as they can get a real #1 WR and a TE in this coming draft. Stop being reasonable. And if we don't see progress, I'd be more than fine talking about replacing him next year. But the talk of drafting Blake Bortles as a replacement is just silly.
Rob's House Posted February 3, 2014 Posted February 3, 2014 I think guys like TG are cowards. IMO, it was a pretty lousy thing to say to a 23 year old who just finished his rookie year. I also think TG won't say that to EJ if he couldn't hide behind his "job." You really want to live in a world where Jerry Sullivan can call Mario Williams a loser? I find that preferable to a world where he can't. Also, if TG were able to whip EJ's ass would it somehow make his questioning more appropriate?
section122 Posted February 3, 2014 Posted February 3, 2014 I know Shanahan got fired anyway, but it wasn't for drafting RG3, "giving up on him" and drafting Cousins. So picking Cousins was bad for the Skins? You realize that Cousins was picked in the 4th round right? Most of the people that are defending EJ wouldn't mind a qb being taken that late. The question was whether or not to take a 1st round qb this year. That is what TG said "I do" to. If there is value late most if not all people would be on board as the backup situation isn't solved in their eyes. That said to waste a 1st on a backup qb (either this year or last years would be just that) is silly to put it kindly. Add in the fact that you are staring at maybe the 4th best qb in a questionable class and it makes the idea even worse.
Beerball Posted February 3, 2014 Posted February 3, 2014 Guys like Tim Graham and a few posters here who agree with him just are simply not living in the real world. They like to talk about their theory of taking QBs in the first till the Bills find the franchise guy without providing any real names of who will be there when they pick. It's a big waste of time. Yes, we get it, they think EJ Manuel sucks and they want to pick a QB at #9 this year. Ok, specifically who would that be? Reality says that QB's name is Derek Carr. Because Bridgwater, Manziel and Bortles are long gone by #9. Ok, so drafting Derek Carr as EJ's competition is worth passing over Watkins, Robinson, Mack, Benjamin or Ebron? If the Bills did that then they would officially become the worst run franchise in the league overtaking the Browns. If you aren't sure that you have your guy & draft day rolls around & if a guy that you (GM, HC) think could be that guy you would be silly to not take him. The alternative is to wait for another season while you figure out (hopefully) whether that guy you already drafted could be that guy. In your universe it is ok to wait for 3 years before deciding, in mine it isn't.
section122 Posted February 3, 2014 Posted February 3, 2014 If you aren't sure that you have your guy & draft day rolls around & if a guy that you (GM, HC) think could be that guy you would be silly to not take him. The alternative is to wait for another season while you figure out (hopefully) whether that guy you already drafted could be that guy. In your universe it is ok to wait for 3 years before deciding, in mine it isn't. I think the strategy of BPA does just this and supposedly it is what the Bills subscribe too. The question is will there really be a can't miss qb available at 9? Would you rather the #3/4 qb or the #1WR, #2LB, or #1/#2 OT?
thebandit27 Posted February 3, 2014 Posted February 3, 2014 If you aren't sure that you have your guy & draft day rolls around & if a guy that you (GM, HC) think could be that guy you would be silly to not take him. The alternative is to wait for another season while you figure out (hopefully) whether that guy you already drafted could be that guy. In your universe it is ok to wait for 3 years before deciding, in mine it isn't. I think you're correct in your thought process...I don't, however, think that 1billsfan is saying exactly what you're paraphrasing above. I think he/she meant (and I invite him/her to correct me) that the team shouldn't just take any QB at 9 with the thought in mind that EJ might not be the guy and forgo other impact players that they have rated more highly. I believe the sentiment 1billsfan was expressing is that it's fine to take a shot at a guy that might be a franchise guy when you don't have any potential franchise QB on the roster, but once you have a potential franchise QB (even one you aren't sure about like EJ) it doesn't make sense to repeat that process if you have other players rated more highly. I guess what I'm trying to say is that I don't think your two views are in opposition.
1billsfan Posted February 3, 2014 Posted February 3, 2014 (edited) I'm not advocating taking Carr at 9, but for argument's sake, there's no guarantee whichever of the guys you mentioned will work out, and all things being equal, if Carr was the pick and did work out it his value would be substantially greater than any of the names you mentioned. So now Derek Carr is in the conversation? IMO, if the Bills picked Derek Carr at #9, the Bills franchise would implode. Why? Because the Buffalo Bills players would no longer feel like laying their bodies on the line for an organization that they would feel has no clue and no confidence in what they're doing. Picking Derek Carr at #9 would most certainly do this. Edited February 3, 2014 by 1billsfan
BigBuff423 Posted February 3, 2014 Posted February 3, 2014 If you aren't sure that you have your guy & draft day rolls around & if a guy that you (GM, HC) think could be that guy you would be silly to not take him. The alternative is to wait for another season while you figure out (hopefully) whether that guy you already drafted could be that guy. In your universe it is ok to wait for 3 years before deciding, in mine it isn't. In my mind, it's not about going after they guy the GM & HC think is "their guy", because according to them he's already on the team...therefore, spending a #9 pick on a player that has a lower chance of seeing the field would be frivolous...now, if both those men went into the Draft with an open mind to say, "Hey, if ________falls to us, we're taking him! Because he COULD be our Franchise QB of the future"...but they don't have an open mind at this point. Marrone has already gone on record to say EJ is the starter...so it's a waste of a truly high value pick. Thus, the argument for Drafting an Aaron Murray type in Round 4 or later...if you take a Murray and he sits the bench for a year while EJ proves that he either is or is NOT the answer, so be it...you've selected an impact player in the first 3 Rounds, or so you hope...and Murray can come on after next year, or if EJ proves fragile and is injured Murray can step in or if EJ just sucks - Murray can step in but not at the expense of other truly important impact players at needed positions.... It boils down to the fact that Marrone has already made up his mind, so why throw away a potentially impoortant and viable football player at 9th overall when he will most likely ride the pine? I think that's what some of us are getting at....not to put words in other people's mouths, but that 's what I'm thinking... Truthfully, I don't think EJ *is* the answer to the QB problem, but Marrone isn't going to budge before the start of the season and probably not at all during the season, so the BILLS need an impact player, like YESTERDAY! But what the hell do I know....?
K-9 Posted February 3, 2014 Posted February 3, 2014 I think the strategy of BPA does just this and supposedly it is what the Bills subscribe too. The question is will there really be a can't miss qb available at 9? Would you rather the #3/4 qb or the #1WR, #2LB, or #1/#2 OT? Since there aren't any "can't miss", blue-chip prospects in this year's draft, I highly doubt one is gonna be there at 9. There are questions about every QB in the draft. Much like last year. GO BILLS!!!
RuntheDamnBall Posted February 3, 2014 Posted February 3, 2014 Guys like Tim Graham and a few posters here who agree with him just are simply not living in the real world. They like to talk about their theory of taking QBs in the first till the Bills find the franchise guy without providing any real names of who will be there when they pick. It's a big waste of time. Yes, we get it, they think EJ Manuel sucks and they want to pick a QB at #9 this year. Ok, specifically who would that be? Reality says that QB's name is Derek Carr. Because Bridgwater, Manziel and Bortles are long gone by #9. Ok, so drafting Derek Carr as EJ's competition is worth passing over Watkins, Robinson, Mack, Benjamin or Ebron? If the Bills did that then they would officially become the worst run franchise in the league overtaking the Browns. Some of them think it's worth committing the cardinal sin (again) of giving up picks to move up in the draft. This team should not be in that business.
thebandit27 Posted February 3, 2014 Posted February 3, 2014 In my mind, it's not about going after they guy the GM & HC think is "their guy", because according to them he's already on the team...therefore, spending a #9 pick on a player that has a lower chance of seeing the field would be frivolous...now, if both those men went into the Draft with an open mind to say, "Hey, if ________falls to us, we're taking him! Because he COULD be our Franchise QB of the future"...but they don't have an open mind at this point. Marrone has already gone on record to say EJ is the starter...so it's a waste of a truly high value pick. Thus, the argument for Drafting an Aaron Murray type in Round 4 or later...if you take a Murray and he sits the bench for a year while EJ proves that he either is or is NOT the answer, so be it...you've selected an impact player in the first 3 Rounds, or so you hope...and Murray can come on after next year, or if EJ proves fragile and is injured Murray can step in or if EJ just sucks - Murray can step in but not at the expense of other truly important impact players at needed positions.... It boils down to the fact that Marrone has already made up his mind, so why throw away a potentially impoortant and viable football player at 9th overall when he will most likely ride the pine? I think that's what some of us are getting at....not to put words in other people's mouths, but that 's what I'm thinking... Truthfully, I don't think EJ *is* the answer to the QB problem, but Marrone isn't going to budge before the start of the season and probably not at all during the season, so the BILLS need an impact player, like YESTERDAY! But what the hell do I know....? I'm not certain that Marrone/Whaley wouldn't keep their options open at QB if they felt there was a Luck-type player coming out this year...if they aren't open to a QB at 9, I firmly believe that it's because they don't grade one that highly.
Dean Cain Posted February 3, 2014 Posted February 3, 2014 Since there aren't any "can't miss", blue-chip prospects in this year's draft, I highly doubt one is gonna be there at 9. There are questions about every QB in the draft. Much like last year. GO BILLS!!! What you weren't sold by Bridgewater's frail frame?
Beerball Posted February 3, 2014 Posted February 3, 2014 I think the strategy of BPA does just this and supposedly it is what the Bills subscribe too. The question is will there really be a can't miss qb available at 9? Would you rather the #3/4 qb or the #1WR, #2LB, or #1/#2 OT? As i said...if a QB is available and the FO/HC think he's the guy then you take him. The Seattle GM was on the Dan Patrick show this AM. Of course the talk turned to Wilson. Schneider said (paraphrasing) "we knew Buffalo liked him and we picked after them in the 4th round" so, they pulled the trigger because they thought he could be the guy (I know this occurred in round 3). What did Buffalo do? Nix was bargain shopping and he hoped that Wilson would be there in the 4th round. That forced the Bills hand last draft. I would hate to end up in that position ever again. There is only one good way to get a real live QB and that's through the draft. Teams don't let the good ones go (yes, there have been a couple exceptions). Since there aren't any "can't miss", blue-chip prospects in this year's draft, I highly doubt one is gonna be there at 9. There are questions about every QB in the draft. Much like last year. GO BILLS!!! I'm not a huge NCAA guy, but from what I've heard/read it is much different. 3-4 could go in the first round this draft and 2-3 higher than where Manuel was drafted.
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