Is MLB our biggest need now?

[#34fan]

I like Moseley alot. But I wouldn't mind Shayne Skov either. Skov diagnoses, and blows up plays with shocking regularity. If they pass up Mosely, they shouldn't pass on Skov. He's smart, He's A LEADER, and will be a true difference-maker on defense.

Edited January 31, 2014 by #34fan

[3rdand12]

Lol. I agree that we need a QB to play well and that, when its all said and done, is our biggest "need". My OP was intended more towards addressing personnel. QB is not a "need" imo in terms of actually having a player to play. EJ will most likely be that player. LB is not as clear cut bc the way I see it, we're clearly short 1 LB, whether it be at WLB or MLB is a different matter i suppose.

I apologize if i helped sidetrack this.

I just dont know who that linebacker is. I do agree its the position of greatest need on the defense .

As we get closer to the draft i hope this clears up for me. I certainly know the type of player who might play alongside/near Alonso . But Shwaatz might have his own ideas to upgrade Moats and or Bradham.

Whats Kirk Morrison doing these days ?

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

 

 

I dont know how this convo got sidetracked into a conversation about kiko's size. For me, its not about Kiko's size per se, its about my belief that Kiko's strengths are BEST-suiteed for the weak side LB spot and although he CAN play MLB, i dont think we would tap his full ability at that spot.

 

Why do I feel this way? Because Kiko LOVES to be aggressive and attempt to blow up a play in the backfield. At the weak side, kiko can better use his explosiveness and quickness. He cann better use his aggressiveness and play in more open space to pursue the ball carrier or the QB. Where can a LB best be able to perform this function? AT THE WEAK SIDE, and not the mike (sorry if i offend by using the word Mike - dont want to come off as arrogant to some). At the Mike you have to be consistent against the run and you cant swing and miss in your assignment and i dont see Kiko excelling at that. Not bc hes "too small" but simply bc that is not his strong point.

 

And yes, kiko had x amount of tackles last season, but they were done in a defensive alignment that had him playig on the weakside a lot, and quite frankly he was all over the field. Having kiko play mlb in a 4-3 for an entire season is a different animal. id also like to see what schemes schwarz comes up with.

 

Anyway, from the responses i see that the majority of people feel that MLB is not a critical need, with a few disagreeing. I posed this thread as a question, not a statement.

 

 

 

 

 

Though i dont feel kiko is undersized to play MLB, those who say Kiko is the same size as Willis, Lewis or Urlacher are being a bit silly. I dont care what theyre "listed" at, kiko is the smallest of that group. Ill leave that size comparison topic there.

 

It is silly to use things like height and weight to compare size. I am not sure why they even do that at the combine. You can just tell looking at your tv.

[bobobonators]

 

 

It is silly to use things like height and weight to compare size. I am not sure why they even do that at the combine. You can just tell looking at your tv.

 

I agree, it is silly to argue size and weight and that was never my intention on this thread. But if you also want to be cute about it:

 

Patrick Willis @ NFL combine: 6'1 242lbs

Ray Lewis @ NFL combine: 6'1 240lbs

 

Brian Urlacher @ NFL combine: 6'4 258lbs

 

Kiko Alonso @ NFL combine: 6'3 238lbs

 

Kiko was taller than both Willis and Lewis yet still weighed less. Urlacher was 20lbs heavier despite only being an inch taller. There's a reason why all those players "look" bulkier/bigger on the TV: because they all are.

[bobobonators]

Back to the MLB discussion, showing that I don't care about size, my favorite LB coming out of this year's draft (which others have mentioned as well):

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCbBmcxmFHY

[JM57]

 

 

What was it exactly that you saw that you wish you hadn't? The guy racked up 159 tackles for goodness sake. Where does he belong other than at MLB? Brian loves him there. Why don't you?

 

Please explain how we effectively get two players for drafting one?? What do we do, play D with 10 players??? Ralph will be delighted. One less player to pay.

Because in Schwartz's D, the MLB needs to be able to take on interior linemen and plug BOTH A gaps. That's not exactly Kiko's strength. Playing in space is. So you get a banger like Brandon Spikes to play the MLB when there are 3 LBs on the field, and he comes off in the nickel look and Kiko plays Mike.

 

Meanwhile Kiko would be an All-Pro as a 4-3 Will

[bobobonators]

 

Because in Schwartz's D, the MLB needs to be able to take on interior linemen and plug BOTH A gaps. That's not exactly Kiko's strength. Playing in space is. So you get a banger like Brandon Spikes to play the MLB when there are 3 LBs on the field, and he comes off in the nickel look and Kiko plays Mike.

 

Meanwhile Kiko would be an All-Pro as a 4-3 Will

 

Yup. We'll see how Schwartz plays it with our personnel.

[boyst]

Just throwing this out there. I do not think many of us realize what the size of these players is in reality to their strength. He is 6'3" and 238 lbs. That's pretty big, not ungodly huge like a 300lbs. OL. But, that's no push over at all. If he added 20# he'd not be the same - and it's usually not worth it, being only about 17 lbs. of that is "muscle" of which 75% of that is just water, in reality. So, gaining 4.25 of actual muscle fiber would be about 10-15 lbs. torque per muscle group. That's not all that much when dealing with 220-300 lbs. athletes.

 

He is just fine at his size to play ILB.

 

The 20 lbs. he'd add to get minimally smaller would drastically affect his performance, slowing him down and altering his mechanics potentially beyond the point of effectiveness - especially if flexibility is not maintained. 20lbs. to gain 20lbs on the bench, or maybe even 30 lbs. on your squat won't matter if you look at it from mere body building perspective. Alonso needs to sustain 'reps' not stack up sets.

Edited January 31, 2014 by jboyst62

[JM57]

Just throwing this out there. I do not think many of us realize what the size of these players is in reality to their strength. He is 6'3" and 238 lbs. That's pretty big, not ungodly huge like a 300lbs. OL. But, that's no push over at all. If he added 20# he'd not be the same - and it's usually not worth it, being only about 17 lbs. of that is "muscle" of which 75% of that is just water, in reality. So, gaining 4.25 of actual muscle fiber would be about 10-15 lbs. torque per muscle group. That's not all that much when dealing with 220-300 lbs. athletes.

 

He is just fine at his size to play ILB.

 

The 20 lbs. he'd add to get minimally smaller would drastically affect his performance, slowing him down and altering his mechanics potentially beyond the point of effectiveness - especially if flexibility is not maintained. 20lbs. to gain 20lbs on the bench, or maybe even 30 lbs. on your squat won't matter if you look at it from mere body building perspective. Alonso needs to sustain 'reps' not stack up sets.

After watching him play last year why would you want him to gain all that weight? That's messing with a good thing.

 

Just find a guy who can play MLB and stuff the run for the appx. 30-40% of snaps they will be in a 4-3 look. Kiko is the Mike in the 50+% of time they are in nickel or dime.

 

Think of it like this: does Kiko's skill set (+speed, +range, +coverage skills, +aggressiveness) better suit him for a role like Derrick Brooks and Lance Briggs played in their respective 4-3 schemes? Or is he more of a London Fletcher type player (downhill, run stuffer, -coverage skills)

Edited January 31, 2014 by JM57

[billsfan_34]

 

 

Lol. I agree that we need a QB to play well and that, when its all said and done, is our biggest "need". My OP was intended more towards addressing personnel. QB is not a "need" imo in terms of actually having a player to play. EJ will most likely be that player. LB is not as clear cut bc the way I see it, we're clearly short 1 LB, whether it be at WLB or MLB is a different matter i suppose.

We have players in every spot on the team , know what I mean? But can EJ guide the ship. Without a captain the team is now going to compete.

[boyst]

see below

>>After watching him play last year why would you want him to gain all that weight? That's messing with a good thing.

 

Others are suggesting he is too small, needs to get bigger, stronger, drink Brawndo.

 

>>Just find a guy who can play MLB and stuff the run for the appx. 30-40% of snaps they will be in a 4-3 look. Kiko is the Mike in the 50+% of time they are in nickel or dime.

 

Done Smith signed in 2012 with the Ravens for $1.125mm ($840k cash, $285k bonus). Now 31 years old he could likely be had for about the same amount by a team, but likely will need more to lure him away from Baltimore. I would be just fine with giving him a 2 year deal for what comes to $1.5mm, or 3 year deal at $1.125mm. If we find a ILB in the draft he will make for a good rotational/backup player in 2015 and 2016.

 

Think of it like this: does Kiko's skill set (+speed, +range, +coverage skills, +aggressiveness) better suit him for a role like Derrick Brooks and Lance Briggs played in their respective 4-3 schemes? Or is he more of a London Fletcher type player (downhill, run stuffer, -coverage skills)

 

Sounds like Madden stuff. I am confused. Either way, Kiko needs to go to Will. See my sig line. We can basically run a 33 defensive look with Jerry Hughes being the DE/LB and filling a role between Freeney and Rey Malalisdfaijdfguawaaaa from Cinci.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

 

 

I agree, it is silly to argue size and weight and that was never my intention on this thread. But if you also want to be cute about it:

 

Patrick Willis @ NFL combine: 6'1 242lbs

Ray Lewis @ NFL combine: 6'1 240lbs

 

Brian Urlacher @ NFL combine: 6'4 258lbs

 

Kiko Alonso @ NFL combine: 6'3 238lbs

 

Kiko was taller than both Willis and Lewis yet still weighed less. Urlacher was 20lbs heavier despite only being an inch taller. There's a reason why all those players "look" bulkier/bigger on the TV: because they all are.

 

You made my point quite well. Outside of Urlacker, these guys are all within a Dr Scholls insert and chipotle burrito of each other.

 

Let's stop pretending we see obvious bulk differences when guys are an inch and 2 pound different from each other.

 

Kiko may wear his bulk in a leaner way. Maybe he had higher bone density, but either way plenty of qualified experts see him as a MLB.

[JM57]

 

>>After watching him play last year why would you want him to gain all that weight? That's messing with a good thing.

 

Others are suggesting he is too small, needs to get bigger, stronger, drink Brawndo.

 

>>Just find a guy who can play MLB and stuff the run for the appx. 30-40% of snaps they will be in a 4-3 look. Kiko is the Mike in the 50+% of time they are in nickel or dime.

 

Done Smith signed in 2012 with the Ravens for $1.125mm ($840k cash, $285k bonus). Now 31 years old he could likely be had for about the same amount by a team, but likely will need more to lure him away from Baltimore. I would be just fine with giving him a 2 year deal for what comes to $1.5mm, or 3 year deal at $1.125mm. If we find a ILB in the draft he will make for a good rotational/backup player in 2015 and 2016.

 

Think of it like this: does Kiko's skill set (+speed, +range, +coverage skills, +aggressiveness) better suit him for a role like Derrick Brooks and Lance Briggs played in their respective 4-3 schemes? Or is he more of a London Fletcher type player (downhill, run stuffer, -coverage skills)

 

Sounds like Madden stuff. I am confused. Either way, Kiko needs to go to Will. See my sig line. We can basically run a 33 defensive look with Jerry Hughes being the DE/LB and filling a role between Freeney and Rey Malalisdfaijdfguawaaaa from Cinci.

 

Not Madden stuff. More general scouting terms. + meaning he has positive or above average skills in whatever area, - meaning below average or negative skills. Just abbreviated it because I post from my phone.

 

 

 

....at work

[3rdand12]

Okay . i am a little smarter about this. Not much though.

i am going to look more into Borland.

But 62 is onto something with this Smith fellow. But i would want to draft his potential replacement in the later rounds if feasible.

Today on Chris Browns fan friday he answered a question like this

CB " CB: I think your reasoning makes sense, but what you want to do is often affected by what’s available in terms of talent. When it comes to linebacker I get the sense that the team would prefer to move Kiko Alonso out to the weak side where they can take better advantage of his athleticism and coverage ability. That would mean a middle linebacker would need to be plugged in. "

 

well that is it then ! For those of you suggesting it , well there it is .

So , run linebacker in Fa sounds fine . Not easy maybe but a if Bills wish it.... so if that turns to be successful who do we draft and when ?

Bob -o ? Whatcha think ?

Edited January 31, 2014 by 3rdand12

[bobobonators]

Okay . i am a little smarter about this. Not much though.

i am going to look more into Borland.

But 62 is onto something with this Smith fellow. But i would want to draft his potential replacement in the later rounds if feasible.

Today on Chris Browns fan friday he answered a question like this

CB " CB: I think your reasoning makes sense, but what you want to do is often affected by what’s available in terms of talent. When it comes to linebacker I get the sense that the team would prefer to move Kiko Alonso out to the weak side where they can take better advantage of his athleticism and coverage ability. That would mean a middle linebacker would need to be plugged in. "

 

well that is it then ! For those of you suggesting it , well there it is .

So , run linebacker in Fa sounds fine . Not easy maybe but a if Bills wish it.... so if that turns to be successful who do we draft and when ?

Bob -o ? Whatcha think ?

 

EXACTLY.

 

Kiko at WLB makes too much sense.

 

The question is more about what route do we take to fill MLB. Draft? FA? We'll see

 

Im personally not 100% sold on Mosley. But if the coaches are, so be it. No complaints.

 

Borland is my favorite but it would be a bigger risk to pass on Mosley and rely on Borland. A bigger risk for coaching staff, that is bc the obvious pick would be Mosley.

 

Brandon Spikes? I could see that. Beason? I could see that.

 

Other people's thoughts?

Edited February 1, 2014 by bobobonators

[3rdand12]

EXACTLY.

 

Kiko at WLB makes too much sense.

 

The question is more about what route do we take to fill MLB. Draft? FA? We'll see

Indeed we shall brother.

May i suggest both ?

[bobobonators]

BUMP