What did we get for Marshawn Lynch?

[Sisyphean Bills]

Well...

 

That's all fine and good, but if the Bills don't pick Spiller, Lynch is not nearly as expendable...The Spiller pick was the key...You don't Draft a RB #9 overall and expect him to sit...

 

Well, at least, you shouldn't. Not these days. What they did made little sense at the time. If they were done with Marshawn, then drafting his replacement and trading Marshawn for draft picks would have been a decisive strategic approach. If they wanted to keep Marshawn and evaluate him, then, in the age of the UDFA RB, why run to the podium to pick a 3rd string RB? This was Nix and Gailey's first year and they were coming in with Trent Edwards as the incumbent QB. Trent Edwards. The guy that got cut before October by a team heading to 0-8 with the new regime in charge. And let's not forget that Buddy and Chan wanted to overhaul a Tampa-2 defense to a "Planet Theory" 3-4 and could have used more draft picks for that as well.

[C.Biscuit97]

Well, at least, you shouldn't. Not these days. What they did made little sense at the time. If they were done with Marshawn, then drafting his replacement and trading Marshawn for draft picks would have been a decisive strategic approach. If they wanted to keep Marshawn and evaluate him, then, in the age of the UDFA RB, why run to the podium to pick a 3rd string RB? This was Nix and Gailey's first year and they were coming in with Trent Edwards as the incumbent QB. Trent Edwards. The guy that got cut before October by a team heading to 0-8 with the new regime in charge. And let's not forget that Buddy and Chan wanted to overhaul a Tampa-2 defense to a "Planet Theory" 3-4 and could have used more draft picks for that as well.

 

Fair points but I think a huge part of the reason was no one knew how good Fred Jackson was. Lynch made a comment that why did they draft him when they had Jackson. My guess is the plan was to evaluate Lynch and work in Spiller. Jackson, however, was too valuable to keep off the field.

 

Also, I wonder if they caught wind of Lynch still doing shady things after his suspension and realized he was a ticking time bomb. I have friends who were bartenders and trust me, Lynch was up to no good. Hopefully, he grew up and good for him if he did. But this is one trade I have problem faulting the Bills for.

[FLFan]

Fair points but I think a huge part of the reason was no one knew how good Fred Jackson was. Lynch made a comment that why did they draft him when they had Jackson. My guess is the plan was to evaluate Lynch and work in Spiller. Jackson, however, was too valuable to keep off the field.

 

Also, I wonder if they caught wind of Lynch still doing shady things after his suspension and realized he was a ticking time bomb. I have friends who were bartenders and trust me, Lynch was up to no good. Hopefully, he grew up and good for him if he did. But this is one trade I have problem faulting the Bills for.

Agreed. Jackson outplayed Lynch and it was not even close. Lynch did not want to be in Buffalo, was not motivated, and one more stupid mistake from disappearing for a year. They got what he was worth at the time. I doubt many, if any, head coaches besides Peter Carrol were lining up to rehabilitate Lynch. And oh, by the way, his mediocrity continued his first year with the Seahags.

[BillsVet]

Has Lynch had any run-ins with the law since his trade to Seattle? I repeatedly see fans excuse Buffalo's trade of ML, yet they had no plans to do so until deep into the 2010 season. By that point, they should have known what Jackson offered and clearly they liked Spiller. So it begs the question, if it was the off-field stuff that threatened them, why did they wait so long to deal him for a song?

[C.Biscuit97]

Has Lynch had any run-ins with the law since his trade to Seattle? I repeatedly see fans excuse Buffalo's trade of ML, yet they had no plans to do so until deep into the 2010 season. By that point, they should have known what Jackson offered and clearly they liked Spiller. So it begs the question, if it was the off-field stuff that threatened them, why did they wait so long to deal him for a song?

http://profootballta...marshawn-lynch/

 

Goodell picks and chooses sometimes.

 

The trade also looked good when he averaged 3.5 ypc when he got to Seattle.

Edited January 15, 2014 by C.Biscuit97

[NoSaint]

Has Lynch had any run-ins with the law since his trade to Seattle?

 

yes, he was arrested for DUI driving a mid 90s ford econoline van at like 4am.

 

The trial has been pushed back a few times, and should come to a conclusion this offseason i imagine.

 

I assume that the hit and run was simply conduct, not any drug offense like a DUI would be since he never had any substance related conviction. the guns and drugs may have been a first strike drug offense, so if this DUI was a second strike itd be a 4 game suspension and put him in the next stage of the drug program.

[JPS]

http://profootballta...marshawn-lynch/

 

Goodell picks and chooses sometimes.

 

The trade also looked good when he averaged 3.5 ypc when he got to Seattle.

Between 2009 and 2011, the Seahawks invested 2 first rounders (Okung and Carpenter) and 1 second rounder (Unger) in their Oline and got lucky with Giacomini off Green Bay's practice squad. Seattle invested in their Oline and it paid off for Lynch after they developed and gelled as a unit. Who or what did Lynch run behind in Bflo?

[C.Biscuit97]

Between 2009 and 2011, the Seahawks invested 2 first rounders (Okung and Carpenter) and 1 second rounder (Unger) in their Oline and got lucky with Giacomini off Green Bay's practice squad. Seattle invested in their Oline and it paid off for Lynch after they developed and gelled as a unit. Who or what did Lynch run behind in Bflo?

 

Fred Jackson had a better ypc behind the same oline.

[Billsguy]

We received: something to talk about while our team is on the golf course!

 

The Bills received more years of ineptitude and frustration. It is no coincidence that dysfunctional organizations find ways to mess it up. It all starts at the top. Incompetent owner hires incompetent people and then repeats the cycle every 2-5 years.

[JPS]

Fred Jackson had a better ypc behind the same oline.

whipped cream on shite

[KOKBILLS]

Fair points but I think a huge part of the reason was no one knew how good Fred Jackson was. Lynch made a comment that why did they draft him when they had Jackson. My guess is the plan was to evaluate Lynch and work in Spiller. Jackson, however, was too valuable to keep off the field.

 

Also, I wonder if they caught wind of Lynch still doing shady things after his suspension and realized he was a ticking time bomb. I have friends who were bartenders and trust me, Lynch was up to no good. Hopefully, he grew up and good for him if he did. But this is one trade I have problem faulting the Bills for.

 

My best guess is that Spiller was the key to everything that happened afterwards...I think the Bills knew they could not get much for Marshawn and were begrudgingly going to keep him if they had to...But then they absolutely fell head over heels in love with Spiller and that started the events in motion...

[BillsVet]

http://profootballta...marshawn-lynch/

 

Goodell picks and chooses sometimes.

 

The trade also looked good when he averaged 3.5 ypc when he got to Seattle.

 

I was merely asking. He's not a model citizen, that's for sure.

 

At the same time we evaluate decisions over the long-haul, not for half a season from 3 years ago. And using your desire to prove everything definitively on statistics alone, he's rushed for 4k yards and 35 TD's from 2011-13. Not to mention being a 3 time Pro-Bowler and 2 time All-Pro. Pretty good deal if you're John Schneider. Not a good deal for Buddy Nix. There's a reason why Seattle is a contender every year and Buffalo remains mired in mediocrity. You can't give talent away and expect o be competitive.

[Dorkington]

whipped cream on shite

 

Awesome

[RuntheDamnBall]

The Bills received more years of ineptitude and frustration. It is no coincidence that dysfunctional organizations find ways to mess it up. It all starts at the top. Incompetent owner hires incompetent people and then repeats the cycle every 2-5 years.

Holy generalization, batman.

 

I don't think Whaley is incompetent. I don't know if Marrone is. My gut says he's not as competent as I would like him to be in some areas. We'll see what happens when he gets more players to work with.

[KOKBILLS]

I was merely asking. He's not a model citizen, that's for sure.

 

At the same time we evaluate decisions over the long-haul, not for half a season from 3 years ago. And using your desire to prove everything definitively on statistics alone, he's rushed for 4k yards and 35 TD's from 2011-13. Not to mention being a 3 time Pro-Bowler and 2 time All-Pro. Pretty good deal if you're John Schneider. Not a good deal for Buddy Nix. There's a reason why Seattle is a contender every year and Buffalo remains mired in mediocrity. You can't give talent away and expect o be competitive.

 

Agreed...

 

Nix is a decent talent evaluator, but he was a terrible team builder...Using a premium pick on a RB after the Bills had done the same thing only three years prior was just mind-boggling to me...To be honest I still can't believe that's the way Nix decided to start his reign as GM...It still baffles me...I'm well aware that the Lynch situation was complicated, but Nix took the dumb way out...He already had Freddie, but he still allowed himself to fall for Spiller instead of concentrating on building a team...As it turns out, not only did he have Freddie, but the Bills sign Joique Bell as a UDFA that year...Bell certainly could have filled a 3rd string RB slot as insurance if Lynch bombed...And there's always a few later round RB's in every Draft...In 2010 Jonathan Dwyer, Anthony Dixon, and James Starks went in the 6th Round...Granted not feature backs, but all good enough for depth to buy an extra year...

[Cynical]

yes, he was arrested for DUI driving a mid 90s ford econoline van at like 4am.

 

The trial has been pushed back a few times, and should come to a conclusion this offseason i imagine.

 

I assume that the hit and run was simply conduct, not any drug offense like a DUI would be since he never had any substance related conviction. the guns and drugs may have been a first strike drug offense, so if this DUI was a second strike itd be a 4 game suspension and put him in the next stage of the drug program.

 

Some more info:

 

Lynch DUI

 

Summary:

• Blew a .08 when he got pulled over
  
• Blood test showed a .10
  
• Defense tried to suppress evidence and have the case dismissed. Denied.
  
• Trial likely to happen after SB
  
• Could face NFL suspension regardless of trial outcome
  

[C.Biscuit97]

I was merely asking. He's not a model citizen, that's for sure.

 

At the same time we evaluate decisions over the long-haul, not for half a season from 3 years ago. And using your desire to prove everything definitively on statistics alone, he's rushed for 4k yards and 35 TD's from 2011-13. Not to mention being a 3 time Pro-Bowler and 2 time All-Pro. Pretty good deal if you're John Schneider. Not a good deal for Buddy Nix. There's a reason why Seattle is a contender every year and Buffalo remains mired in mediocrity. You can't give talent away and expect o be competitive.

 

Oh yeah, I forgot. Using stats to prove how valuable players are is frowned about here. The fact that Chris Johnson had the lowest ypc of his career had 0 reflection on Levitre's play.

 

As for Lynch, the trade was a homerun. No doubt about it. But it was also a gamble. I don't remember exactly but I remember the Bills trading for a highly drafted guy in the 80s after he did something really bad (too young at the time but read about it in a Bills book). I think it blew up in the Bills' face.

 

Seattle signed Matt Flynn to a big money contract before Wilson. They also traded valuable picks for Charlie Whitehurst. Both were bad moves but Russell Wilson covers it. For some reason, some fans don't think NFL teams make mistakes. They all do but some have really good QBs that cover it. Lynch could have stayed in Buffalo and he could have been suspended for a year. For some reason, I think you would have bashed them for that too.

 

Also, players love Pete Carroll. He might be the best players' coach in sports. He seems to bring out the best in troubled guys. He also is an amazing defensive coach. (It's also worth pointing out he got fired from his first NFL head coaching job).

[BillsVet]

As for Lynch, the trade was a homerun. No doubt about it. But it was also a gamble. I don't remember exactly but I remember the Bills trading for a highly drafted guy in the 80s after he did something really bad (too young at the time but read about it in a Bills book). I think it blew up in the Bills' face.

 

Comparing apples to oranges. Bennett in 1987 has nothing to do with the NFL landscape of 2010. Besides, a former 1st for a 4th and 5th is far less significant that trading the recent 2nd overall pick in a three team swap featuring other 1s.

 

Seattle signed Matt Flynn to a big money contract before Wilson. They also traded valuable picks for Charlie Whitehurst. Both were bad moves but Russell Wilson covers it. For some reason, some fans don't think NFL teams make mistakes. They all do but some have really good QBs that cover it. Lynch could have stayed in Buffalo and he could have been suspended for a year. For some reason, I think you would have bashed them for that too.

 

I've always loved to see the debating style of bringing down someone else to make the Bills look better. Getting harder to do, especially when lamenting the #1 seed in the NFC for making a mistake along the way is cited.

 

Also, players love Pete Carroll. He might be the best players' coach in sports. He seems to bring out the best in troubled guys. He also is an amazing defensive coach. (It's also worth pointing out he got fired from his first NFL head coaching job).

 

Carroll has a great GM who has the financial backing of the wealthiest owner in the NFL. It's little wonder they've succeeded.

 

Dick Jauron was fired from his first NFL gig. You remember, the guy who was as good as Belichick save for the latter's time with Tom Brady QB'ing the Patsies? You did make that point once before, no?

[C.Biscuit97]

 

 

Comparing apples to oranges. Bennett in 1987 has nothing to do with the NFL landscape of 2010. Besides, a former 1st for a 4th and 5th is far less significant that trading the recent 2nd overall pick in a three team swap featuring other 1s.

 

 

 

I've always loved to see the debating style of bringing down someone else to make the Bills look better. Getting harder to do, especially when lamenting the #1 seed in the NFC for making a mistake along the way is cited.

 

 

 

Carroll has a great GM who has the financial backing of the wealthiest owner in the NFL. It's little wonder they've succeeded.

 

Dick Jauron was fired from his first NFL gig. You remember, the guy who was as good as Belichick save for the latter's time with Tom Brady QB'ing the Patsies? You did make that point once before, no?

 

Yup and it still remains. Belichick had a worse record than Jauron pre-Brady. Amazing that you become a better coach when you get a top 5 qb of all time.

 

And the name was Reggie Rogers. The Bills tried it & it didn't work. Sometimes a troubled player rebounds but more often they don't. Congrats to Seattle.

 

And a lot ton of hindsight with Seattle's GM. I guarantee you weren't calling him a great GM after the Flynn signing and Charlie Whitehurst trade.

[Sisyphean Bills]

My best guess is that Spiller was the key to everything that happened afterwards...I think the Bills knew they could not get much for Marshawn and were begrudgingly going to keep him if they had to...But then they absolutely fell head over heels in love with Spiller and that started the events in motion...

 

Marshawn had plenty of trade value in the draft. I have no doubt that a more experienced GM would've played the suitors off against each other and got a deal done. It just didn't happen.

 

As far as not knowing what they had in Jackson, there may be some truth there. They appeared to be clueless about what Trent Edwards brought to the table until he jogged out of bounds to end a game (and vanished into the sunset with his golf clubs). One of the narratives at the time was that they needed a full-season to evaluate players, though a new head coach making a team worse is actually a rarity.