GG Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 It's whatever Marie Osmond decides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 I'm hoping that whomever mentioned liking Blake Shelton has never listened to . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Country is country. I know that sounds like "it is what it is," but it is. You know it when you hear it. It's not Shania, that's pop. It is the Drive By Truckers when they play "Carl Perkins' Cadillac." It's most definitely not Dareus Rucker. or Lady Antebellum. It is Loretta Lynn, even when Jack White attempted to over-produce her. It is not, for the most part, Johnny Cash. He was and will always be a rocker to me. (How he, Carl Perkins, Jerry Lee and Elvis got together in Memphis and Cash got the label as a "country" guy, I don't know.) It is Hank Williams, though he had his rock and roll tendencies. It is Gretchen Wilson. And it especilly is George Strait and Alan Jackson. As for Tim McGraw, he's not an artist of any real genre that deserves mention. jw Speaking about guitars, Cadillacs, and hillbilly music. What about that "Bakersfield Sound?" Is that country? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delete This Account Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Speaking about guitars, Cadillacs, and hillbilly music. What about that "Bakersfield Sound?" Is that country? if you're referring to Buck Owens, yes. Brad Paisley owes Buck plenty. and i'm not big fan of Paisley given; 1) How he once dismissed pop music for being vapid, and then has elected to mount the second half of his career on vapid pop music, which brings me to ... 2) Accidental Racist. Merle Haggard, definitely. if you want to go further an add in Marty Stuart (saw him in Buffalo 10 years ago, great show) and Dwight Yoakam, well I'm on board. Yoakam was more country than much of the bunk being played on the radio when he first broke. and he's still more country now than much of what's "popular." i mean, i picked up the Kacey Musgraves cd a few months back and liked it. not sure how it fit in as "country" aside from the fact she sang about a trailer park. not sure if she's really country. she does sell. carrie underwood meanwhile is no more country than Faith Hill is nowadays. only difference is that Faith Hill has more talent. jw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Poojer Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 hey JW, glad you entered this thread. Because you have opinions on both topics...how do DBT and their 'genre' fit into country music? if you're referring to Buck Owens, yes. Brad Paisley owes Buck plenty. and i'm not big fan of Paisley given; 1) How he once dismissed pop music for being vapid, and then has elected to mount the second half of his career on vapid pop music, which brings me to ... 2) Accidental Racist. Merle Haggard, definitely. if you want to go further an add in Marty Stuart (saw him in Buffalo 10 years ago, great show) and Dwight Yoakam, well I'm on board. Yoakam was more country than much of the bunk being played on the radio when he first broke. and he's still more country now than much of what's "popular." i mean, i picked up the Kacey Musgraves cd a few months back and liked it. not sure how it fit in as "country" aside from the fact she sang about a trailer park. not sure if she's really country. she does sell. carrie underwood meanwhile is no more country than Faith Hill is nowadays. only difference is that Faith Hill has more talent. jw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Country is country. I know that sounds like "it is what it is," but it is. You know it when you hear it. It's not Shania, that's pop. It is the Drive By Truckers when they play "Carl Perkins' Cadillac." It's most definitely not Dareus Rucker. or Lady Antebellum. It is Loretta Lynn, even when Jack White attempted to over-produce her. It is not, for the most part, Johnny Cash. He was and will always be a rocker to me. (How he, Carl Perkins, Jerry Lee and Elvis got together in Memphis and Cash got the label as a "country" guy, I don't know.) It is Hank Williams, though he had his rock and roll tendencies. It is Gretchen Wilson. And it especilly is George Strait and Alan Jackson. As for Tim McGraw, he's not an artist of any real genre that deserves mention. jw Really? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Poojer Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 oh, didn't see your earlier responses hey JW, glad you entered this thread. Because you have opinions on both topics...how do DBT and their 'genre' fit into country music? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 (edited) Country is country. I know that sounds like "it is what it is," but it is. You know it when you hear it. It's not Shania, that's pop. It is the Drive By Truckers when they play "Carl Perkins' Cadillac." It's most definitely not Dareus Rucker. or Lady Antebellum. It is Loretta Lynn, even when Jack White attempted to over-produce her. It is not, for the most part, Johnny Cash. He was and will always be a rocker to me. (How he, Carl Perkins, Jerry Lee and Elvis got together in Memphis and Cash got the label as a "country" guy, I don't know.) It is Hank Williams, though he had his rock and roll tendencies. It is Gretchen Wilson. And it especilly is George Strait and Alan Jackson. As for Tim McGraw, he's not an artist of any real genre that deserves mention. jw Agree with most of this, but not the Johnny Cash part. I have always considered him country. Country has changed so much since the days of Patsy Cline (my personal favorite country artist). I say changed ... not evolved ... purposely. I think Darius Rucker can sound country-ish. Kind of like the Eagles could (Take it Easy comes to mind). Hell, listen to Canary in a Coal Mine from Zenyatta Mondatta and the Police even got a little country-ish. I get calling Faith Hill and Tim McGraw country, although I don't agree with it. Garth Brooks. No. Taylor Swift. Could be the hottest woman on the planet. But she is. to a country artist. Modern country, to me, is crap. And when I think of classic country that I love (which isn't much), my go-to has always been Johnny Cash. Edit: fixed typos Edited January 31, 2014 by Gugny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delete This Account Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Agree with most of this, but not the Johnny Cash part. I have always considered him country. Country has changed so much since the days of Patsy Cline (my personal favorite country artist). I say changed ... not evolved ... purposely. I think Darius Rucker can sound country-ish. Kind of like the Eagles could (Take it Easy comes to mind). Hell, listen to Canary in a Coal Mine from Zenyatta Mondatta and the Police even got a little country-ish. I get calling Faith Hill and Tim McGraw country, although I don't agree with it. Garth Brooks. No. Taylor Swift. Could be the hottest woman on the planet. But she is. to a country artist. Modern country, to me, is crap. And when I think of classic country that I love (which isn't much), my go-to has always been Johnny Cash. Edit: fixed typos that's all fine. not going to debate you Gugny. the title of the topic is "How do you" define country. i provided my definition. Folsom Prison Blues to me is not country. it's message and beat are rooted in rock. and it might not be a coincidence that this came out around the same time he worked with Bob Dylan. Cash is more to folk than he was country, more a troubadour than a twanger. that he came from the south is regarded as one of the reasons he was regarded as a "hayseed." and it certainly helped that he eventually teamed up with the Carter family, and wore boots and played a guitar. but tell me this, is Steve Earle country? that's a tough one, no? Joe Strummer had Cash-like qualities. and what clinches it for me in regards to Cash are the series of Rick Rubin-produced "American Recordings." that Cash could take many of those songs and make them his own is a reflection of his rock and roll leanings, particularly on an album that opens with the title track: "The Man Comes Around," which is not a country song in my opinion. Cash is country, but not limited to country. he is Gospel, but not limited to that. he transcends it which, by my definition, makes him a rocker, with a finger-in-the-air rebelious spirit that is what makes rock and roll relevant and resonant. jw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 that's all fine. not going to debate you Gugny. the title of the topic is "How do you" define country. i provided my definition. Folsom Prison Blues to me is not country. it's message and beat are rooted in rock. and it might not be a coincidence that this came out around the same time he worked with Bob Dylan. Cash is more to folk than he was country, more a troubadour than a twanger. that he came from the south is regarded as one of the reasons he was regarded as a "hayseed." and it certainly helped that he eventually teamed up with the Carter family, and wore boots and played a guitar. but tell me this, is Steve Earle country? that's a tough one, no? Joe Strummer had Cash-like qualities. and what clinches it for me in regards to Cash are the series of Rick Rubin-produced "American Recordings." that Cash could take many of those songs and make them his own is a reflection of his rock and roll leanings, particularly on an album that opens with the title track: "The Man Comes Around," which is not a country song in my opinion. Cash is country, but not limited to country. he is Gospel, but not limited to that. he transcends it which, by my definition, makes him a rocker, with a finger-in-the-air rebelious spirit that is what makes rock and roll relevant and resonant. jw Agreed. Cash was more a folk artist. If you call Cash pure country you might as well call someone like Neil Young or Crosby, Stills, Nash, Dylan, even Bob Seger. Their sounds were a mixture of blues, folk, country and rock. It might be that they had a drum but had bluegrass instruments and an electric guitar. It may be that they had some twang in their vocals or a slide guitar on stage. Two songs which really define Cash to me are "Sunday Morning Coming Down" and "Delia's Gone." They are both completely different sounds which span 24 years ( 1970 - 1994). Those two songs are not what people think of when they first thing of Johnny Cash and country. You think of the early songs, "Walk The Line" (56), "Cry, Cry, Cry" (55), "Ring Of Fire" (63), and others from Ira Hayes, In the Jailhouse Now, A Boy Named Sue, and Daddy Sang Bass. Those are all more of the country songs. What about...Willie Nelson being country? I would say he is country by many definitions but more a Folk singer. His real stuff, it is just so damn good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 if you're referring to Buck Owens, yes. Brad Paisley owes Buck plenty. and i'm not big fan of Paisley given; 1) How he once dismissed pop music for being vapid, and then has elected to mount the second half of his career on vapid pop music, which brings me to ... 2) Accidental Racist. Merle Haggard, definitely. if you want to go further an add in Marty Stuart (saw him in Buffalo 10 years ago, great show) and Dwight Yoakam, well I'm on board. Yoakam was more country than much of the bunk being played on the radio when he first broke. and he's still more country now than much of what's "popular." i mean, i picked up the Kacey Musgraves cd a few months back and liked it. not sure how it fit in as "country" aside from the fact she sang about a trailer park. not sure if she's really country. she does sell. carrie underwood meanwhile is no more country than Faith Hill is nowadays. only difference is that Faith Hill has more talent. jw Gotta get Chet Atkins in the somewhere! Speaking of him... Would Everly Brothers, if broke out today, be considered a sole "country act!" Rockabilly is country. Anyway, fair assessment! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 This old time debate has been going on since, well, the old times... Seems people can't get enough of that old time sound: Isn't everything just "country." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 that's all fine. not going to debate you Gugny. the title of the topic is "How do you" define country. i provided my definition. Folsom Prison Blues to me is not country. it's message and beat are rooted in rock. and it might not be a coincidence that this came out around the same time he worked with Bob Dylan. Cash is more to folk than he was country, more a troubadour than a twanger. that he came from the south is regarded as one of the reasons he was regarded as a "hayseed." and it certainly helped that he eventually teamed up with the Carter family, and wore boots and played a guitar. but tell me this, is Steve Earle country? that's a tough one, no? Joe Strummer had Cash-like qualities. and what clinches it for me in regards to Cash are the series of Rick Rubin-produced "American Recordings." that Cash could take many of those songs and make them his own is a reflection of his rock and roll leanings, particularly on an album that opens with the title track: "The Man Comes Around," which is not a country song in my opinion. Cash is country, but not limited to country. he is Gospel, but not limited to that. he transcends it which, by my definition, makes him a rocker, with a finger-in-the-air rebelious spirit that is what makes rock and roll relevant and resonant. jw No debate. Just conversation. Your final paragraph is a very good, accurate and fair representation of Mr. Cash, in my opinion. I don't know a lot of Steve Earle, but what I've heard, I'd say "No - not country ," albeit not easily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zona Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 This old time debate has been going on since, well, the old times... Seems people can't get enough of that old time sound: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZtgZ5fHOuU Isn't everything just "country." Yes! the Soggy Bottom Boys are Country..... Good movie. lots of good quotes, like "I nicked the census man" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 Cash is country, but not limited to country. he is Gospel, but not limited to that. he transcends it which, by my definition, makes him a rocker, with a finger-in-the-air rebelious spirit that is what makes rock and roll relevant and resonant. jw That is the reason you are the writer...you made a point I was trying to make earlier in the thread, much more succinctly than I ever could.... as music "evolves" the definition of what constitutes a genre of music become more and more murky. You pointed out that you though it was odd that out of Elvis, Carl Perkins, Jerry Lee and Johnny Cash, it was JC who was dubbed the country guy. But, in 1955-56, Cash was the country guy of that bunch. What makes him so significant, and such an important artist, was that he helped to define the genre, rather than have the genre define him. I don't know it for a fact or anything, but I suspect, Johnny saw himself as a country artist. I get a ton of crap from people I know, for liking "country" music...my older sister, who probably had more influence than anyone over my passion for music, to this day (she is in her mid-fifties) swears that she "hates country music"...but practically everything she listened to when we were growing up was blurring the lines between country, folk and rock. Her favorite artist of all-time is, easily, Bob Dylan... he blood boils when I tell her that some of Dylan's best stuff is rooted in country music... she loves Arlo Gutherie.... his classic albums from the 70's are a who's who of some of the best country musicians around at the time.... What I find frustrating, as somebody who doesn't feel ashamed for saying that I like country music, it seems that when ever a country artist gets attention, musically, outside the narrow constraints of the country music industry, they are normally adopted by some other "cooler, hipper" genre of music. So, when I say I like country music, I am not talking about the cookie cutter stuff that comes out of Nashville (though I admit, I can appreciate some of that on a rare occasion), but I am talking about the country genre that, for me, is populated by people like Steve Earle, Lucinda Willams, Guy Clark, Kelly Willis, Johnny Cash and hundreds of other artists that most have never heard of.. If the argument is, "if I take every great artist from the country genre and put them someplace that works better for me, do you still like country music?" I mean, a point have made before, if I say "I love rock-n'roll" does that mean I live in some fantasy world where "classic" Nickleback should be critically compared to vintage Stones? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CowgirlsFan Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 The minute I hear it I want to do two step. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 Real country tune been unable to get out of my head the last week or so, the great Eddie Noack "Beer Drinking Blues", with the great line "if you love me, you'll understand, I gotta have beer in my right hand" and "before I die, I will raise my hand, I'll drink more beer than any man" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marv's Neighbor Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 We need to take a narrative of the last 20 seasons to Nashville. I's sad and sorry enough to make a great Country music series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 Is it a rock song or really a country song first written as a rock song? Drums w/the crossover, there is a lot of twanging going on here: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prickly Pete Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 A lot of this stuff I would call "Americana". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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