The Big Cat Posted February 18, 2014 Posted February 18, 2014 I know he's a "pop" novelist but I like some of his work and Steven King has mentioned that often he has no idea how some of his novels are going to end till he writes them. Hence the 10-15 years writing the dark tower. A creative mind can look at the story he has started and put in plots and turns he never conceived of in the "in the beginning" part of the novel. I can't separate my personal bias from this: Stephen King is a story teller, not a writer. His most remarkable achievement has been his prolificness.
Jim in Anchorage Posted February 18, 2014 Posted February 18, 2014 I can't separate my personal bias from this: Stephen King is a story teller, not a writer. His most remarkable achievement has been his prolificness. Look I am not going to get into a debate over story teller vs writer. My point was you do not think creative minds cannot evolve a plot/story over time? What if Tolkien was held to a single TV season? Would we ever have seen the 3 part lord of the rings? Or would the ring been thrown in Mt doom hurry up?
The Big Cat Posted February 18, 2014 Posted February 18, 2014 Look I am not going to get into a debate over story teller vs writer. My point was you do not think creative minds cannot evolve a plot/story over time? What if Tolkien was held to a single TV season? Would we ever have seen the 3 part lord of the rings? Or would the ring been thrown in Mt doom hurry up? I'm not sure what we're debating here. I've said there are definite benefits of having a predetermined length. Sure, things can evolve, I guess. To your point about LOTR, sure. This is Forty follows different characters from Knocked Up, just like Tolkien explored different stories and characters that existed in the universe he created for the Ring trilogy...which had a beginning middle and end. He didn't keep inventing reasons for the ring to not go destroyed, that's something totally different, and what happens with shows like LOST. They're like beavers placed at the top of the Sears Tower: they find an excuse to build a damn. Just have your story and tell it. Now, if we want to see a show that has the same, ever-evolving characters placed in new situations every week, fine. Then you've just described every cop/hospital drama that ever existed, and rarely are those shows about anything other than the week-to-week or season to season situations. I'm pretty sure that's exactly what the makers of True Detective set out not to do.
Jim in Anchorage Posted February 18, 2014 Posted February 18, 2014 I'm not sure what we're debating here. I've said there are definite benefits of having a predetermined length. Sure, things can evolve, I guess. To your point about LOTR, sure. This is Forty follows different characters from Knocked Up, just like Tolkien explored different stories and characters that existed in the universe he created for the Ring trilogy...which had a beginning middle and end. He didn't keep inventing reasons for the ring to not go destroyed, that's something totally different, and what happens with shows like LOST. They're like beavers placed at the top of the Sears Tower: they find an excuse to build a damn. Just have your story and tell it. Now, if we want to see a show that has the same, ever-evolving characters placed in new situations every week, fine. Then you've just described every cop/hospital drama that ever existed, and rarely are those shows about anything other than the week-to-week or season to season situations. I'm pretty sure that's exactly what the makers of True Detective set out not to do. What makes you so sure? Looks to me like it's getting more complex with the yellow king angle. This may go to places far beyond the original season. And why not?
The Big Cat Posted February 18, 2014 Posted February 18, 2014 What makes you so sure? Looks to me like it's getting more complex with the yellow king angle. This may go to places far beyond the original season. And why not? Because the writer and director (both singular in this case, both a rarity in television of any kind) don't want it to? I mean, why didn't the Beatles add six more tracks to Revolver? Why didn't DaVinci paint Mona Lisa with her relatives? And why oh why, after countless examples to the contrary, would we assume that more would be better?
NoSaint Posted February 18, 2014 Posted February 18, 2014 I'm not sure what we're debating here. I've said there are definite benefits of having a predetermined length. Sure, things can evolve, I guess. To your point about LOTR, sure. This is Forty follows different characters from Knocked Up, just like Tolkien explored different stories and characters that existed in the universe he created for the Ring trilogy...which had a beginning middle and end. He didn't keep inventing reasons for the ring to not go destroyed, that's something totally different, and what happens with shows like LOST. They're like beavers placed at the top of the Sears Tower: they find an excuse to build a damn. Just have your story and tell it. Now, if we want to see a show that has the same, ever-evolving characters placed in new situations every week, fine. Then you've just described every cop/hospital drama that ever existed, and rarely are those shows about anything other than the week-to-week or season to season situations. I'm pretty sure that's exactly what the makers of True Detective set out not to do. im an episode behind hoping to catch up tonight but really, ill say i agree with what your saying including the not being sure whats being argued. in a format that bows to the whims of ratings, and execs, and actors demands.... while you have to be fluid.... having a more contained story instead of open ended "lets see where this takes us" story telling definitely has some advantages. as you point at, some great stories have gotten dragged out to cash in and on the flip side others have been cut incredibly short because they werent committed to long enough. in a land where you are getting season by season commitments from networks, actors etc... its a perk if you can create PERFECT stories for X episodes that everyone is all in for even if you dont get to explore everything to its fullest.
The Big Cat Posted February 18, 2014 Posted February 18, 2014 im an episode behind hoping to catch up tonight but really, ill say i agree with what your saying including the not being sure whats being argued. in a format that bows to the whims of ratings, and execs, and actors demands.... while you have to be fluid.... having a more contained story instead of open ended "lets see where this takes us" story telling definitely has some advantages. as you point at, some great stories have gotten dragged out to cash in and on the flip side others have been cut incredibly short because they werent committed to long enough. in a land where you are getting season by season commitments from networks, actors etc... its a perk if you can create PERFECT stories for X episodes that everyone is all in for even if you dont get to explore everything to its fullest. well, and therein lies the industry rub. for the most part, TV is season to season. any deadwood fans here? granted it was a COMPLETELY different format, but since it was at the mercy of continuance, the faithful audience was left with a heaping pile of nothing to show for. also, about halfway through the third season of LOST, i decreed that anyone left on that bandwagon was a fool. that was the epitome of "let's throw a bunch of crazy **** at the wall then re-write the rules as we go to figure this **** out." IMO, that was a disservice, nay, practically an insult to its audience.
Jim in Anchorage Posted February 18, 2014 Posted February 18, 2014 Because the writer and director (both singular in this case, both a rarity in television of any kind) don't want it to? I mean, why didn't the Beatles add six more tracks to Revolver? Why didn't DaVinci paint Mona Lisa with her relatives? And why oh why, after countless examples to the contrary, would we assume that more would be better? You assume the story has been written. We shall see if true detectives, as cast, is a one season wonder. Or will the artists recognize the magic and carry it on? Or just change for the sake of change?
NoSaint Posted February 18, 2014 Posted February 18, 2014 (edited) You assume the story has been written. We shall see if true detectives, as cast, is a one season wonder. Or will the artists recognize the magic and carry it on? Or just change for the sake of change? season 1 is fully filmed and completed. none of the actors are contracted for season 2. we are now less than 3 weeks from the air date of the last episode of season 1. additionally the plan is to completely restaff and shoot in a totally new location (all those things must be starting to get in process). it would be a pretty extreme curveball that is very possibly impossible based on the actors, even if they wanted to go that route. Edited February 18, 2014 by NoSaint
Buftex Posted February 18, 2014 Author Posted February 18, 2014 You assume the story has been written. We shall see if true detectives, as cast, is a one season wonder. Or will the artists recognize the magic and carry it on? Or just change for the sake of change? Its all a flat circle...
The Big Cat Posted February 18, 2014 Posted February 18, 2014 You assume the story has been written. We shall see if true detectives, as cast, is a one season wonder. Or will the artists recognize the magic and carry it on? Or just change for the sake of change? Well, as NoSaint writes, don't hold your breath and hope on ye olde googles to find out why. I'm not trying to be condescending or sarcastic: have you ever done anything creative? Have you ever written or performed anything? I only ask because you seem to keep coming back to this perspective wherein the writer is either a.) !@#$ing with you by pulling the plug on these characters you like b.) not reaching his creative potential by not exhausting the universe, or c.) is incapable of working to fulfill a very specific vision regardless of whether you, or any audience member for that matter, gives a ****.
bbb Posted February 19, 2014 Posted February 19, 2014 I'm 3.5 episodes in (started today w/wife) The anthology format is gaining popularity, sorry. This is 2014 TV and it's a format I personally love. The Onion @TheOnion Feb 17 Report: Stating Current Year Still Leading Argument For Social Reform http://onion.com/1oHWNBu
NoSaint Posted February 19, 2014 Posted February 19, 2014 Just caught up -- great episode. I don't know what season 2 will be but there's a precision to the writing that you don't normally see on TV and it's almost certainly a result of the format. There's no need to write in back doors or leave windows open - both the story and the execution are getting more and more impressive. Now that we've walked through the history I'm excited to see how the past becomes the present.
Jim in Anchorage Posted February 19, 2014 Posted February 19, 2014 Its all a flat circle... We keep doing this over and over.
bbb Posted February 19, 2014 Posted February 19, 2014 Just did E2. I know I'm go on a binge and burn up all 5 Eps before the end of today. Hang on time for E3. Do you watch it on HBO Go? Opening song from the handsome family is absolutely haunting It definitely is. I thought it was T Bone Burnett - because I thought the credits say music by him.
Jim in Anchorage Posted February 19, 2014 Posted February 19, 2014 Do you watch it on HBO Go? It definitely is. I thought it was T Bone Burnett - because I thought the credits say music by him. Streaming free web site.
The Big Cat Posted February 19, 2014 Posted February 19, 2014 I hoping everyone to this point in the thread is caught up. Wife and I caught up tonight. That six minute shot to end episode four was just !@#$ing awesome and downright TERRIFYING!! It's tough to binge watch up through episode five since the goods are REALLY starting to unravel. I recommend the AV Club recaps, and I'm waiting until seasons end to read this little diddly that's making the rounds: http://io9.com/the-one-literary-reference-you-must-know-to-appreciate-1523076497 I worry that too much insight will start playing spoiler!
plenzmd1 Posted February 19, 2014 Posted February 19, 2014 (edited) I hoping everyone to this point in the thread is caught up. I recommend the AV Club recaps, and I'm waiting until seasons end to read this little diddly that's making the rounds: http://io9.com/the-o...iate-1523076497 Hey, did not know my son posts herel, he never pays attention to what i say either Edited February 19, 2014 by plenzmd1
NoSaint Posted February 19, 2014 Posted February 19, 2014 (edited) Streaming free web site. hey Jim, care to PM the site? Im all caught up but have someone i know that i want to push into watching. also, are we going to keep the thread relatively clean of spoilers/theories til the end, or do we want to open up talk on whats actually going down? Edited February 19, 2014 by NoSaint
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