Cleveland Rocks? Posted April 16, 2014 Posted April 16, 2014 Holy cow, really?? Apple, meet orange. Repost when Johhny Football's dad (or anyone for that matter) accuses him of a violent crime. Violent crime or not, that article about Manziel was scary enough to make GMs think twice. Some things aren't coachable. I know I'll be pretty scared if the Browns take him - he seems like he is more about himself and his brand than much anything. That won't fly in Cleveland. What will happen when they lose their first few games and he cant handle the criticism? Browns fans can be pretty rough. Maybe he would be better off somewhere like Jax where no one seems to care. I am hoping for Derek Carr.
LB3 Posted April 16, 2014 Posted April 16, 2014 (edited) Holy cow, really?? Apple, meet orange. Repost when Johhny Football's dad (or anyone for that matter) accuses him of a violent crime. JF plead guilty to a misdemeanor for not identifying himself after fighting a guy over a racist comment that Johnny's friend made. Sweet mugshot... http://www.thesmokinggun.com/mugshots/celebrity/sports/johnny-manziel Edited April 16, 2014 by KikoSeeBallKikoGetBall
dave mcbride Posted April 16, 2014 Posted April 16, 2014 The NY Times piece is very long and very damning.
Mr. WEO Posted April 16, 2014 Posted April 16, 2014 Violent crime or not, that article about Manziel was scary enough to make GMs think twice. Some things aren't coachable. I know I'll be pretty scared if the Browns take him - he seems like he is more about himself and his brand than much anything. That won't fly in Cleveland. What will happen when they lose their first few games and he cant handle the criticism? Browns fans can be pretty rough. Maybe he would be better off somewhere like Jax where no one seems to care. I am hoping for Derek Carr. Ok, let's try it another way. You're a GM and Winston is coming out in the midst of all this and a potentially exlplosive civil suit pending. Or you ahve JF, who after all of those incidents (which happened before this past season) had an event free, outstanding year where most observers agree he was exmplary off the field and improved his technical game on the field. You are really going to look at these two guys as having equivalent "red flags"?
Peter Posted April 16, 2014 Posted April 16, 2014 The NY Times piece is very long and very damning. I agree. I read the whole thing. I would think long and hard before drafting this guy. Everyone is innocent until proven guilty - at least in a court of law. Nevertheless, when you are professional football team, that standard does not apply. Clearly, I cannot say he raped her or did not rape her. Yet, there are enough red flags that would cause me (if I were a GM or owner) to find out a whole hell of a lot more before drafting this guy and committing to pay him a bunch of money. Just my two cents.
Cleveland Rocks? Posted April 16, 2014 Posted April 16, 2014 Ok, let's try it another way. You're a GM and Winston is coming out in the midst of all this and a potentially exlplosive civil suit pending. Or you ahve JF, who after all of those incidents (which happened before this past season) had an event free, outstanding year where most observers agree he was exmplary off the field and improved his technical game on the field. You are really going to look at these two guys as having equivalent "red flags"? I didn't say they were "equivalent"... so, no?
Mr. WEO Posted April 16, 2014 Posted April 16, 2014 I didn't say they were "equivalent"... so, no? You said some article about JM was "scary" enough to make GMs think twice. Now we have a new article about Winston. Is it more scary? Less scary? You say they aren't the same scary..... Would you be less "scared" if the Browns took Winston (if he was available right now)? Are you not scared about your QB situation as it is? Has any scout or GM or coach agreed with your assessment that JM is "uncoachable"? These efforts to amplify JM's youthful indescretions were always laughable. That they are being brought, as a means of comparison, into a discussion of another college QB prospect who may be a rapist is just pathetic and negative crusading at its worst.
Cleveland Rocks? Posted April 16, 2014 Posted April 16, 2014 You said some article about JM was "scary" enough to make GMs think twice. Now we have a new article about Winston. Is it more scary? Less scary? You say they aren't the same scary..... Would you be less "scared" if the Browns took Winston (if he was available right now)? Are you not scared about your QB situation as it is? Has any scout or GM or coach agreed with your assessment that JM is "uncoachable"? These efforts to amplify JM's youthful indescretions were always laughable. That they are being brought, as a means of comparison, into a discussion of another college QB prospect who may be a rapist is just pathetic and negative crusading at its worst. I am not sure why you are giving me the third degree. But if you must know the answers... Is it more scary? Less scary? You say they aren't the same scary..... Considering I am a female, more scary Would you be less "scared" if the Browns took Winston (if he was available right now)? See above Are you not scared about your QB situation as it is? I don't think "scared" is the word I would choose. More annoyed. Has any scout or GM or coach agreed with your assessment that JM is "uncoachable"? I didn't provide an "assessment" that Manzeil is uncoachable as a player. I said that someone who drank to deal with his fame, (according to his father) is someone who could have an issue that would go beyond what a coach would like to deal with in a franchise QB in the NFL. That is the uncoachable part. Sorry for any confusion. Also, I didn't realize I needed a a scout/GM/coach to agree with my opinion about a draft prospect before expressing them.
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted April 16, 2014 Posted April 16, 2014 I am not sure why you are giving me the third degree. But if you must know the answers... Is it more scary? Less scary? You say they aren't the same scary..... Considering I am a female, more scary Would you be less "scared" if the Browns took Winston (if he was available right now)? See above Are you not scared about your QB situation as it is? I don't think "scared" is the word I would choose. More annoyed. Has any scout or GM or coach agreed with your assessment that JM is "uncoachable"? I didn't provide an "assessment" that Manzeil is uncoachable as a player. I said that someone who drank to deal with his fame, (according to his father) is someone who could have an issue that would go beyond what a coach would like to deal with in a franchise QB in the NFL. That is the uncoachable part. Sorry for any confusion. Also, I didn't realize I needed a a scout/GM/coach to agree with my opinion about a draft prospect before expressing them. Because he is the biggest dick on this forum. Don't waste your time on him. He has nothing to offer. He gets his jollyies from criticizing and pretending he's the sheriff.
Mr. WEO Posted April 16, 2014 Posted April 16, 2014 I am not sure why you are giving me the third degree. But if you must know the answers... Is it more scary? Less scary? You say they aren't the same scary..... Considering I am a female, more scary Would you be less "scared" if the Browns took Winston (if he was available right now)? See above Are you not scared about your QB situation as it is? I don't think "scared" is the word I would choose. More annoyed. Has any scout or GM or coach agreed with your assessment that JM is "uncoachable"? I didn't provide an "assessment" that Manzeil is uncoachable as a player. I said that someone who drank to deal with his fame, (according to his father) is someone who could have an issue that would go beyond what a coach would like to deal with in a franchise QB in the NFL. That is the uncoachable part. Sorry for any confusion. Also, I didn't realize I needed a a scout/GM/coach to agree with my opinion about a draft prospect before expressing them. Sorry, when you say he is uncoachable, I assume there is something more than a hunch and some old media stories. He seemed very coachable this year; that's why I asked. I was wondering what you saw this year that prompted you to say he is or might be uncoachable. As we all know, NFL coaches have to deal with far worse crimes committed by their onw players than those committed by JM. In fact, the Bills just picked a troubled WR from another team who, because of a laundry list of issues, was let go. Yet our coaching staff and FO must have thought he was very coachable. If the NFL coaches couldn't handle "hard partying" 20-25 year old recent BOMC's then there would either be no NFL HC's left or very few NFL players on rosters.
H2o Posted April 16, 2014 Posted April 16, 2014 JF plead guilty to a misdemeanor for not identifying himself after fighting a guy over a racist comment that Johnny's friend made. Sweet mugshot... http://www.thesmokin.../johnny-manziel He has that Aaron Hernandez look, right?
Ramius Posted April 16, 2014 Posted April 16, 2014 The article blatantly misrepresented and in some instances, flat out lied regarding the university's reaction. Here's the official response to that piece of biased journalism. http://fsunytimes.fsu.edu Just because TPD handled the case poorly doesn't make that article less ridiculous.
section122 Posted April 16, 2014 Posted April 16, 2014 I am not sure why you are giving me the third degree. But if you must know the answers... Is it more scary? Less scary? You say they aren't the same scary..... Considering I am a female, more scary Would you be less "scared" if the Browns took Winston (if he was available right now)? See above Are you not scared about your QB situation as it is? I don't think "scared" is the word I would choose. More annoyed. Has any scout or GM or coach agreed with your assessment that JM is "uncoachable"? I didn't provide an "assessment" that Manzeil is uncoachable as a player. I said that someone who drank to deal with his fame, (according to his father) is someone who could have an issue that would go beyond what a coach would like to deal with in a franchise QB in the NFL. That is the uncoachable part. Sorry for any confusion. Also, I didn't realize I needed a a scout/GM/coach to agree with my opinion about a draft prospect before expressing them. Don't worry about WEO he's our resident pats* fan/ smarter than everybody else troll. He will pick a random passing statement and try to make a mountain out of a molehill. As for this story this to me is a long way from roethlisberger status. The second situation caused the girl to be uncomfortable. That is a long way from rape or even serious misconduct. It could be anything from rough sex to rape. Broad brush strokes used here. Also the first situation is just as difficult to gauge. Anywhere from consensual sex to rape. Anywhere from school overprotecting an asset to a gold digger trying to get paid. These situations are never black and white and we, so far removed, can only speculate on them. The one thing it definitely does is speak to his decision making. Namely putting himself in this situation more than once. That is the red flag. Similar (but not the same) as the red flags surrounding manziel who repeatedly had his name in the news for all the wrong reasons. Not the same circumstances but situations that will have to be investigated further by gms.
BuffaloRebound Posted April 16, 2014 Posted April 16, 2014 The article blatantly misrepresented and in some instances, flat out lied regarding the university's reaction. Here's the official response to that piece of biased journalism. http://fsunytimes.fsu.edu Just because TPD handled the case poorly doesn't make that article less ridiculous. Looks a bit like the Penn State "we fulfilled all our legal obligations" Sandusky response. Interesting that FSU doesn't refute the Assistant AD calling TPD about the matter in January 2013.
YoloinOhio Posted April 17, 2014 Posted April 17, 2014 Sorry, when you say he is uncoachable, I assume there is something more than a hunch and some old media stories. He seemed very coachable this year; that's why I asked. I was wondering what you saw this year that prompted you to say he is or might be uncoachable. As we all know, NFL coaches have to deal with far worse crimes committed by their onw players than those committed by JM. In fact, the Bills just picked a troubled WR from another team who, because of a laundry list of issues, was let go. Yet our coaching staff and FO must have thought he was very coachable. If the NFL coaches couldn't handle "hard partying" 20-25 year old recent BOMC's then there would either be no NFL HC's left or very few NFL players on rosters. She said twice the fact he drank too much to deal with his celebrity was the part that was uncoachable or something that NFL coaches would like to avoid. Not that he, as an overall player, is uncoachable. Comparing a franchise QB prospect to a WR though in terms of what coaches are open to overlooking doesn't make a lot of sense to me though. Fair or otherwise, QBs are held to a higher standard because they are expected to be a face of the franchise, lead the team, make good decisions, have excellent judgment, lead by example. WRs are many times more individual performers at heart and can get away with more. The Bills gave up a 6th rd pick for a guy they can cut at the end of this year with no additional money owed. The Browns or whoever take JFF will likely be giving a high 1st rd pick, a sizable financial investment, and setting themselves back years if he doesn't work out.
Mr. WEO Posted April 17, 2014 Posted April 17, 2014 The article blatantly misrepresented and in some instances, flat out lied regarding the university's reaction. Here's the official response to that piece of biased journalism. http://fsunytimes.fsu.edu Just because TPD handled the case poorly doesn't make that article less ridiculous. The NYT article really wasn't about FSU's reaction...
BigBuff423 Posted April 17, 2014 Posted April 17, 2014 You said some article about JM was "scary" enough to make GMs think twice. Now we have a new article about Winston. Is it more scary? Less scary? You say they aren't the same scary..... Would you be less "scared" if the Browns took Winston (if he was available right now)? Are you not scared about your QB situation as it is? Has any scout or GM or coach agreed with your assessment that JM is "uncoachable"? These efforts to amplify JM's youthful indescretions were always laughable. That they are being brought, as a means of comparison, into a discussion of another college QB prospect who may be a rapist is just pathetic and negative crusading at its worst. Posting and drinking apparently don't mix well for you....better to let a cooler head prevail and carefully examine what your intentions were / are when asking some questions about a potentially violent crime toward women versus a questionably volatile, immature young man who has improved his off the field behavior....
Mr. WEO Posted April 17, 2014 Posted April 17, 2014 She said twice the fact he drank too much to deal with his celebrity was the part that was uncoachable or something that NFL coaches would like to avoid. Not that he, as an overall player, is uncoachable. Comparing a franchise QB prospect to a WR though in terms of what coaches are open to overlooking doesn't make a lot of sense to me though. Fair or otherwise, QBs are held to a higher standard because they are expected to be a face of the franchise, lead the team, make good decisions, have excellent judgment, lead by example. WRs are many times more individual performers at heart and can get away with more. The Bills gave up a 6th rd pick for a guy they can cut at the end of this year with no additional money owed. The Browns or whoever take JFF will likely be giving a high 1st rd pick, a sizable financial investment, and setting themselves back years if he doesn't work out. He was, by all accounts, well behaved this year. Why would you ignore this and reach back to rehash events from a year ago. Also, the other poster didn't qualify her statement as "QB vs WR". I really don't think it matters, but recall tha no one had a problem running to the podium to pick Cam Newton, who had far more character issues (theft, academic fraud, family bribery/solicitation---he may have been the dirtiest number one pick ever) than JF. Taking a QB as a 1st round pick often doesn't work out. It only sets a team back "years" if they fail to recognized the futility of the pick and move on to another QB. You know......
YoloinOhio Posted April 17, 2014 Posted April 17, 2014 He was, by all accounts, well behaved this year. Why would you ignore this and reach back to rehash events from a year ago. Also, the other poster didn't qualify her statement as "QB vs WR". I really don't think it matters, but recall tha no one had a problem running to the podium to pick Cam Newton, who had far more character issues (theft, academic fraud, family bribery/solicitation---he may have been the dirtiest number one pick ever) than JF. Taking a QB as a 1st round pick often doesn't work out. It only sets a team back "years" if they fail to recognized the futility of the pick and move on to another QB. You know...... NFL teams reach back way further than that. No one said the guy isn't going to be drafted high.Quite the opposite.
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