John from Riverside Posted February 7, 2014 Posted February 7, 2014 Forget what he did last year....he was not the DC then. What were the stats for when he was with the Titans? That is the stats that mean something to me.
NoSaint Posted February 7, 2014 Posted February 7, 2014 (edited) Forget what he did last year....he was not the DC then. What were the stats for when he was with the Titans? That is the stats that mean something to me. Similar scheme. I posted a bunch of comments up thread from titans fans from a couple threads on a message board in 2007 (after his first strong season there). He's not a blitzer. He's not been very exotic. He wants his front 4 to beat you at the core of his philosophy. If I recall that year he had like 4 sacks not come from the lineman Edited February 7, 2014 by NoSaint
dave mcbride Posted February 7, 2014 Posted February 7, 2014 This may have been covered, but I'm not searching through 35 pages. Anyway, this story about Schwartz and Suh is interesting in light of the Dareus situation last year: http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/02/01/report-teammates-said-suh-was-a-problem-in-the-lions-locker-room/
John from Riverside Posted February 7, 2014 Posted February 7, 2014 Similar scheme. I posted a bunch of comments up thread from titans fans from a couple threads on a message board in 2007 (after his first strong season there). He's not a blitzer. He's not been very exotic. He wants his front 4 to beat you at the core of his philosophy. If I recall that year he had like 4 sacks not come from the lineman Saint, This is not attacking you just convo...I wanted to make sure you knew that. In a 4-3 your sacks are gonna come from your down linemen.....in a 3-4 your down linemen hold gaps and pressure comes from other places. So it makes sense that sacks would come from the down linemen. Also important to note......you like sacks....I like sacks....but the sacks are not the be all end all of a good defense...PRESSURES are more important then sacks are......and if your getting consistant pressure and not giving up run contain...that is also good defense.
YoloinOhio Posted February 7, 2014 Posted February 7, 2014 Saint, This is not attacking you just convo...I wanted to make sure you knew that. In a 4-3 your sacks are gonna come from your down linemen.....in a 3-4 your down linemen hold gaps and pressure comes from other places. So it makes sense that sacks would come from the down linemen. Also important to note......you like sacks....I like sacks....but the sacks are not the be all end all of a good defense...PRESSURES are more important then sacks are......and if your getting consistant pressure and not giving up run contain...that is also good defense. I agree with this, and also when and where the sacks take place are more important that # of overall sacks. The Seahawks had 1 sack on Manning the whole SB but he was under pressure the whole game, causing him to make poor throws and decisions, throw INTs, and 3 and Outs. The Bills got a lot of sacks on Tannehill and Geno when those games were out of reach for them. They also would get a sack on 2nd down and then get killed on a big 3rd down play for a TD.
NoSaint Posted February 7, 2014 Posted February 7, 2014 (edited) Saint, This is not attacking you just convo...I wanted to make sure you knew that. In a 4-3 your sacks are gonna come from your down linemen.....in a 3-4 your down linemen hold gaps and pressure comes from other places. So it makes sense that sacks would come from the down linemen. Also important to note......you like sacks....I like sacks....but the sacks are not the be all end all of a good defense...PRESSURES are more important then sacks are......and if your getting consistant pressure and not giving up run contain...that is also good defense. i very much understand that (both schematically and that its not an attack). im just pointing out that people expecting blitzing, sending corners, safeties, or linebackers, etc.... are very possibly not going to be seeing that. he has in both tennessee and detroit run a pretty straight forward 43 rush 4 drop 7 scheme. you said you werent as interested in detroit when i brought up the blitz percentages, so i pointed out that at the height of his success in tennessee he was pretty similar in that philosophy and thought that the stat that i remembered off hand would help illustrate the point. i wasnt saying that it was good, bad, or ugly, simply that its been his MO consistently the last 14 years. i havent studied his tennessee days in depth by any means but light reading of fan commentary was that it was pretty basic schemes, especially in contrast to gregg williams who he replaced, and that a lot of it was about winning 1-1 matchups, not confusing anybody. we have personnel that can do that so it may work well for us, despite the failures in wannys season. the X's and O's may look closer to his than many want to think - but frankly, many were very excited about the idea of running that type of defense, we just ran it TERRIBLY. that his highest number of sacks since he took over tennessee was 44, and we had 57 last year leads me to believe we might see a little less activity around the QB, which may be a worthwhile tradeoff if we stop the run well, like you point out. we will see. Edited February 7, 2014 by NoSaint
Beerball Posted February 7, 2014 Posted February 7, 2014 This may have been covered, but I'm not searching through 35 pages. Anyway, this story about Schwartz and Suh is interesting in light of the Dareus situation last year: http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/02/01/report-teammates-said-suh-was-a-problem-in-the-lions-locker-room/ Interesting indeed. Hopefully Marrone and Schwartz get Dareus moving in the same direction as everyone else on the team.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 7, 2014 Posted February 7, 2014 Also important to note......you like sacks....I like sacks....but the sacks are not the be all end all of a good defense...PRESSURES are more important then sacks are......and if your getting consistant pressure and not giving up run contain...that is also good defense. Yep. This year Pettine's D got a lot of sacks. What was our run contain like? 'Nuff said.
Dibs Posted February 7, 2014 Posted February 7, 2014 (edited) ...... that his highest number of sacks since he took over tennessee was 44, and we had 57 last year leads me to believe we might see a little less activity around the QB, which may be a worthwhile tradeoff if we stop the run well, like you point out. we will see. Interestingly, Pettine's sack numbers as Jets DC prior to last year were 32, 40, 35, 30.......and the Jets had 41 after he left. Player personnel likely has a decent impact in the equation. Edited February 7, 2014 by Dibs
yungmack Posted February 8, 2014 Posted February 8, 2014 Saint, This is not attacking you just convo...I wanted to make sure you knew that. In a 4-3 your sacks are gonna come from your down linemen.....in a 3-4 your down linemen hold gaps and pressure comes from other places. So it makes sense that sacks would come from the down linemen. Also important to note......you like sacks....I like sacks....but the sacks are not the be all end all of a good defense...PRESSURES are more important then sacks are......and if your getting consistant pressure and not giving up run contain...that is also good defense. I would amend this slightly: If you are hurrying the QB with pressure, and containing the runners, this is the BEST defense.
NoSaint Posted February 8, 2014 Posted February 8, 2014 (edited) Interestingly, Pettine's sack numbers as Jets DC prior to last year were 32, 40, 35, 30.......and the Jets had 41 after he left. Player personnel likely has a decent impact in the equation. For sure. Though, Schwartz, in my opinion, has had better pass rushers than the jets. Suh, fairley, ansah, Avril, vandenbosch, in Detroit for instance, while pettine had guys like pace, maybin, an old Jason Taylor, gholston as his edge rushers for a good chunk. Not to say Schwartz always did, but in his most successful years he had talent (but talent similar to ours so....) Edited February 8, 2014 by NoSaint
3rdand12 Posted February 8, 2014 Posted February 8, 2014 he is going to want two linebackers Keeping Hughes and hoping for Carrington. Schwaatz will need two new LBs. one for depth and one to start and play 1st , 2econd and I hope 3rd downs.
OCinBuffalo Posted February 8, 2014 Posted February 8, 2014 (edited) Gentlemen, the highest propensity for sacks occurs from: putting the other team in 2nd/3rd and long, repeatedly. Next, it comes from: scoring a lot of points on offense, forcing the other team to play catch up, and therefore have to pass more than they want to pass. Bruce Smith et al were able to tee off on offenses, largely because those offenses found themselves down 14-0 in the first quarter of the game, and had to play catch up for the rest of it. A more recent example: the Colts with Peyton manning. Their entire Defense was predicated on playing from ahead, and stopping the pass. IF they got behind, were even, and had to deal wtih the run, they usually met with less sucess. Edited February 8, 2014 by OCinBuffalo
YoloinOhio Posted February 8, 2014 Posted February 8, 2014 he is going to want two linebackers Keeping Hughes and hoping for Carrington. Schwaatz will need two new LBs. one for depth and one to start and play 1st , 2econd and I hope 3rd downs. If they go with a rookie for the starter, do you think Mosely is the BPA + best fit?
3rdand12 Posted February 8, 2014 Posted February 8, 2014 (edited) If they go with a rookie for the starter, do you think Mosely is the BPA + best fit? Loaded question i think . : )We aren't sure what Jim S is going to run , yet . If it were my call , i would want to score the guy who will accentuate Kiko's abilities . this is one of my concerns with the new DC. Unfounded but a concern . Alonso is one of the best players we have had on the team in years . Just amazing natural talent and instincts . Who would you suggest we picked up if we were playing Pettines game again this year. And then , is Mosely your pick or your prediction ? Edited February 8, 2014 by 3rdand12
YoloinOhio Posted February 8, 2014 Posted February 8, 2014 Loaded question i think . : ) We aren't sure what Jim S is going to run , yet . If it were my call , i would want to score the guy who will accentuate Kiko's abilities . this is one of my concerns with the new DC. Unfounded but a concern . Alonso is one of the best players we have had on the team in years . Just amazing natural talent and instincts . Who would you suggest we picked up if we were playing Pettines game again this year. And then , is Mosely your pick or your prediction ? I have no idea, wondered if you did...lol. I saw a tweet from one draft expert that said Alonso and Mosely would be a sick combination and fit Schwartz's D. I guess I don't know enough about his D, and have only seen Kiko in Pettine's, to know if that is the case or if Mack could also be that guy. I do think Pettine originally planned to move Kiko to the weak side if he got a MLB who could take over.... so wonder what Schwartz wants to do with Kiko and which type of LB would be the best complement.
3rdand12 Posted February 8, 2014 Posted February 8, 2014 I have no idea, wondered if you did...lol. I saw a tweet from one draft expert that said Alonso and Mosely would be a sick combination and fit Schwartz's D. I guess I don't know enough about his D, and have only seen Kiko in Pettine's, to know if that is the case or if Mack could also be that guy. I do think Pettine originally planned to move Kiko to the weak side if he got a MLB who could take over.... so wonder what Schwartz wants to do with Kiko and which type of LB would be the best complement. I think i recall that Kiko surprised the staff especially Mike P. So they BPA his arse to most important position . I can barely fathom moving him over . If they drafted a better fit as the captain of the D I would just be knocked over by a feather . One or two linebackers away from complete this defense is . Seriously. oh i forgot i am looking for the thumper not named spikes But there is much better than that available in the draft this year thank gosh
Beerball Posted February 19, 2014 Posted February 19, 2014 From Mayock's mouth to Schwartz' ears: I think it's going to be, in this situation, more up to Jimmy to kind of learn what they've done the last couple years, as opposed to just bringing in a completely different system and getting all players to adjust to it. I think you'll see a lot of what they had last year, with a little bit of influence from Jim Schwartz.
Nanker Posted February 19, 2014 Posted February 19, 2014 Guess we'll just have to wait and see. Everything else is... just talk.
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