Hazed and Amuzed Posted January 26, 2014 Posted January 26, 2014 Anyone know off hand if Schwartz has more of a tendency to play press or zone?
Kelly the Dog Posted January 26, 2014 Posted January 26, 2014 Yup and it seems id venture the guess if I stumbled into the conversation a year later the theme from several would be that it was haynesworth playing out of his mind in his second straight contract year under the tag not the complex schemes that I think some are expecting Stats and fans, including you and me, are not accurate indicators of whether coaches are good or not. The fact is, on offense and defense, you have to have a few stars to be good, several good role players, and 0-1 players like Justin Rogers on the field. Your front office has to be pretty good acquiring players, and your offense usually has to be pretty good for your defensive stats to be high level. Saying it was because of Haynesworth's contract year is kind of dumb. If we wouldn't have had Mario Williams, Pettine would not have that job.
NoSaint Posted January 26, 2014 Posted January 26, 2014 Stats and fans, including you and me, are not accurate indicators of whether coaches are good or not. The fact is, on offense and defense, you have to have a few stars to be good, several good role players, and 0-1 players like Justin Rogers on the field. Your front office has to be pretty good acquiring players, and your offense usually has to be pretty good for your defensive stats to be high level. Saying it was because of Haynesworth's contract year is kind of dumb. If we wouldn't have had Mario Williams, Pettine would not have that job. Fans are totally irrational - I was just trying to share some extra perspective on those years- schemes, in the moment reaction, and context as haynesworths sudden emergence is obviously a noteworthy benchmark worth mentioning
Nitro Posted January 26, 2014 Posted January 26, 2014 I have read several old articles on Schwartz. He is a film and stats geek. Sort of a early football analytics kind of guy. He says he is flexible on defense. I hope this makes the team better.
Bronc24 Posted January 26, 2014 Posted January 26, 2014 I'm coming around. I have said this is a far better hire than what could have otherwise happened. I've not been impressed with much of what he's done in Detroit, defense included, but he's here so rather than continue to be negative about it I'll just be glad we got a guy with experience instead of some newb whose primary qualification is already being on the payroll. I just hope he leaves that Wide 9 garbage in his rear-view. I was "wow" when I read the tweets. I was fully expecting a Henderson-"wtf-are-the-same-old-Bills-doing" kinda hire.
section122 Posted January 26, 2014 Posted January 26, 2014 Fans are totally irrational - I was just trying to share some extra perspective on those years- schemes, in the moment reaction, and context as haynesworths sudden emergence is obviously a noteworthy benchmark worth mentioning The quotes you're sharing are completely driving your narrative though. Were there no positive quotes about him? Were there no fans giving him credit for the defense?
Not at the table Karlos Posted January 26, 2014 Posted January 26, 2014 I'd imagine he will bring at least a couple of his own guys. Teaching a new system to an entire staff seems like a task made easier if you bring along a few guys who already know it and can help teach the holdover coaches Im hoping we keep donnie and (I know its a long shot) oneil. I just live the D that we ran last year and I would hope schwartz would use some of it in his scheme this year. Also are there any articles out that break down the D schwartz it going to run? All I keep hearing is wide 9.
NoSaint Posted January 26, 2014 Posted January 26, 2014 (edited) The quotes you're sharing are completely driving your narrative though. Were there no positive quotes about him? Were there no fans giving him credit for the defense? The couple threads I peeked at weren't terribly positive. There was a lot of quibbling over whether he deserved all the blame for the big drop off from 2000 through his first 5-6 years (which were all average to below average rankings). Some blamed talent instead of him, but I can't say there was any strong sentiment that his schemes were appreciated or creative/unique/diverse. At that juncture though it was before his second strong season and following a December collapse that didnt destroy the overall rankings on the first strong season (but surely worried fans) and he had several bottom of the league rankings on the résumé, so it shouldn't be shocking that it wasn't very pro Schwartz. Could my narrative simply be that I was paying attention then, and that's why what I found was similar to my initial reaction? It also matches what the Nashville poster in this thread has said about sentiment not being pro-schwartz among the Tennessee fans. His scheme has always had a reputation of leaning hard on the front 4 to generate pressure and I think that is the strong underpinning of those commentaries if you look through them. If accurate, and I feel like its atleast true on a broad strokes level, that's not terrible (although on a bills board I know how bad it'll read after wanny)... but I don't think that pressure from the front 4 and live/die with it is what most posters here are picturing they are getting. That's also consistent with his time in Detroit too though. We have the talent in the front 4, so he may be great for us. He's had success when he's had a great front 4. I'm hesitant though. Edited January 26, 2014 by NoSaint
YoloinOhio Posted January 26, 2014 Posted January 26, 2014 (edited) The couple threads I peeked at weren't terribly positive. There was a lot of quibbling over whether he deserved all the blame for the big drop off from 2000 through his first 5-6 years (which were all average to below average rankings). Some blamed talent instead of him, but I can't say there was any strong sentiment that his schemes were appreciated or creative/unique/diverse. At that juncture though it was before his second strong season and following a December collapse that didnt destroy the overall rankings on the first strong season (but surely worried fans) and he had several bottom of the league rankings on the résumé, so it shouldn't be shocking that it wasn't very pro Schwartz. Could my narrative simply be that I was paying attention then, and that's why what I found was similar to my initial reaction? His scheme has always had a reputation of leaning hard on the front 4 to generate pressure and I think that is the strong underpinning of those commentaries if you look through then. If accurate, and I feel like its atleast true on a broad strokes level, that's not terrible (although on a bills board I know how bad it'll read after wanny)... but I don't think that pressure from the front 4 and live/die with it is what most posters here are picturing they are getting. That's also consistent with his time in Detroit too though. We have the talent in the front 4, so he may be great for us. He's had success when he's had a great front 4. I'm hesitant though. I think most good DCs run a scheme that is going to work best for the personnel he has. Talent is the most critical part and then having the right game plan for the opponent. Seattle runs a pretty old school scheme - nothing exotic or different looks to confuse the offense - they just line up and beat who is in front of them. It works for their personnel. I think Schwartz has been around long enough to know what to do with this team, which is different than any he has had. Each group is unique. so we don't know what to expect yet. Chris Brown @ChrisBrownBills13m What Bills Pro Bowlers think of Schwartz hire http://wp.me/plmrg-9AZ Edited January 26, 2014 by YoloinOhio
Dennis in NC Posted January 26, 2014 Posted January 26, 2014 I've found a really great NY Times article from a few years ago when the Jets were prepping to play the Titans with Schwartz as DC. It's an insightful read. http://www.nytimes.c...?pagewanted=all This is a great article. I love the line that says: "Belichick regards Schwartz as one of the smartest coaches he has been around..." THAT is the guy the Bills need at DC. I am very excited about this hire. I remember the impressive Titans defenses from those years JS was their DC.
FluffHead Posted January 26, 2014 Author Posted January 26, 2014 Also are there any articles out that break down the D schwartz it going to run? All I keep hearing is wide 9. @MattRichWarren: Comparing base defenses: Jim Schwartz vs. Mike Pettine http://t.co/c0VqAfAoza via @BuffRumblings
NoSaint Posted January 26, 2014 Posted January 26, 2014 @MattRichWarren: Comparing base defenses: Jim Schwartz vs. Mike Pettine http://t.co/c0VqAfAoza via @BuffRumblings Good article. Really the question will remain whether we lean heavy on the wide 9 or he has something new up his sleeve? I don't think it'll be exactly the same defense here, but I don't think he will totally retool it from scratch either. I think the article does well to express something I meant to include in my last post - that while Schwartz and pettines defenses both are described as aggressive, what that term is referring to isn't the same really and I think a lot of people don't realize that and initially picture something like pettines blitz packages.
dave mcbride Posted January 26, 2014 Posted January 26, 2014 That's fine... but keep in mind that most people on this board have given Marrone zero credit for any of our defense's success last year. I give him tons of credit for hiring the DC. Seriously. Half the battle of being a coach is building a staff.
Kelly the Dog Posted January 26, 2014 Posted January 26, 2014 I give him tons of credit for hiring the DC. Seriously. Half the battle of being a coach is building a staff. There really are so many different skills it takes to be a successful HC in the NFL. Assembling a staff as you say is crucial, although a lot of times the HC wants a certain guy and cannot get him. Managing egos. Game planning both sides of the ball. Managing practices. Managing the roster. Deciding game day actives. Motivating guys on game day and during the game, up or down. Making in game and halftime adjustments. Making good decisions on going for it or not, kicking a FG or not, 2 pt or not, challenging flags, etc. And most of them, there is no apprenticeship for or genuine preparing for until you are on the job.
bbb Posted January 26, 2014 Posted January 26, 2014 Especially when the Seattle DBs, considered the best secondary in the league, are basically coached to commit PI on every snap and just see if it gets called, which it usually doesn't. The refs are so inconsistent anyway, half of the PIs aren't even PI. This should forever be called the Redskins Super Bowl 26 Strategy
ecgetty Posted January 26, 2014 Posted January 26, 2014 (edited) No apologies needed there, all's good . For me, I am pleased with the actual signing......but more pleased with the style of this signing. We just lost our first coordinator in over 20 years to a HC job & we instantly go and get somebody who is highly respected with a wealth of experience. Is it just me, or does the Bills FO seem to be a lot more focused these last 2 years? This^^^^ Edited January 26, 2014 by ecgetty
Utah John Posted January 26, 2014 Posted January 26, 2014 My biggest problem with this hire is that if the Bills do well we'll keep him only for one year. Another rent-a-coach, who will look like a viable HC to some other team. As for me, I remember Schwartz as a putz, getting into embarrassing situations and not appearing to have clue one as a HC making game time decisions. Maybe he's one of those guys who's a very good coordinator but who can't make it as a HC.
Doug Flutie Band Posted January 26, 2014 Posted January 26, 2014 schwartz is a GREAT hire things were looking quite bleak i wouldnt have been surprised if they just promoted from within and pettine left us with a gaping hole to bring in someone with good experience but that isnt clearly washed up and has some credibility to their name is great news and honestly much better than i expected ya, i have my reservations and questions about how it will work out, but it could have been MUCH worse
Nanker Posted January 26, 2014 Posted January 26, 2014 What stones? Georgetown's motto. He's an alum.
nucci Posted January 26, 2014 Posted January 26, 2014 My biggest problem with this hire is that if the Bills do well we'll keep him only for one year. Another rent-a-coach, who will look like a viable HC to some other team. As for me, I remember Schwartz as a putz, getting into embarrassing situations and not appearing to have clue one as a HC making game time decisions. Maybe he's one of those guys who's a very good coordinator but who can't make it as a HC. Would you prefer we get a crappy coach so no one will want to hire them? This is the part of the NFL Bills fans aren't used to because no one rarely wants our assistants but this happens every year.
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