Bills hire Jim Schwartz DC, Todd Downing QB coach

[NoSaint]

All I could find was that through the first 5 games of the 2103 season, the Bills sent 5 or more players 29% of the time on opponents' passing plays, which usually ranks 12-15th in the league. I figure that continued and the difference I see is that Schwartz could see it was effective for the Bills and would want to continue doing that. At least on obvious passing downs. The thing I'd want to know is how many times did they blitz and get gashed by the run, which is an area to tweak?

 

thats actually probably a fair number from what i can piece together this morning. the only other piece i could find was a late season interview that they didnt have to blitz quite as much as he had to in ny due to the pass rushing talent of mario. its possible they split the difference somehow, and ill ease back a bit on my wholesale change for him or for us comment above.

[thebandit27]

its another good example.

 

their coverage helps a lot too though. if leodis plays well again, gilmore shows his potential and we have byrd/williams over the top... well... i guess im saying our talent isnt as far off, but we have to maximize the output from that talent like they do.

 

I think--and I know this is a bit off topic--that a lot of teams are going to start playing the "Seattle brand" of pass defense; basically holding and PI on every play knowing that it won't get called 90% of the time.

 

By the 2015 off-season, the league will be discussing a crackdown on defensive holding.

[section122]

Pettines Defense was disguised, and confusing with a lot of creative blitz packages.

 

After reading that article, which states Schwartz blitzed only 20% of the time last year(3rd least in the NFL), it sounds like he is more like Wanny then Pettine, which makes me cringe.

 

I really liked Pettine, his attacking style of defense was perfect for the talent here. I pray Schwartz installs the same type of defense and doesn't rely on just the front four to get pressure, because as we saw with Wanny, it was a complete disaster.

Can the Lions stats be used when talking about Schwartz though? Cunningham by the accounts I have seen designed and called the plays. Add in the face that it appears the Bills were blitzing 29% to the stated 20% and the difference isn't too huge.

[Doc]

BTW, I'm not sure why people think Jeff Fisher was such a defensive mastermind. If you look at his defenses from 1988-1990 with the Eagles (with an amazing collection of talent), his 1990 season with the LA Rams, and his 1994 season with the Oilers (compared to 1993), it's not all that impressive.

[Beerball]

I'll admit I knew very little about Schwartz before he was hired. After listening to him speak several times and learning about his past, he's a very, very smart guy. I wouldn't have imagined that.

 

I agree with the poster, however, who said if we don't have a top ten defense next year, he will have failed somewhat as a coach. Of course, either top 10 in total defense, or top 10 scoring defense qualify IMO.

Haven't watched the Lions outside of Thanksgiving, but I wonder. Schwartz says he's going to be flexible in his scheme, fit it to the players etc. Yet, if posts in this thread are to be believed he hasn't shown that with the Lions or Titans. Time will tell.

 

I agree with you (and the poster you are agreeing with), this defense must be outstanding next season for Schwartz to be considered a success.

[YoloinOhio]

Seattle didnt blitz much. Granted, the Bills defense isn't nearly as good overall but the front four are.

If they can pressure the QB into bad throws or INTs, sometimes just as good as a sack. I think Rex/Pettine's D with the disguises and exotic schemes can be effective especially with rookie or inexperienced QBs. When you are playing an experienced, successful QB or OC they tend to figure it out and exploit it. Richard Sherman said they used their simplest game plan of the whole season against Denver - cover 1, cover 3, and a couple blitz packages. Next year we play: Peyton Manning, Philip Rivers, Jay Cutler, Aaron Rogers, Matt Stafford, Alex Smith, Brady 2x. Edited February 5, 2014 by YoloinOhio

[NoSaint]

 

Can the Lions stats be used when talking about Schwartz though? Cunningham by the accounts I have seen designed and called the plays. Add in the face that it appears the Bills were blitzing 29% to the stated 20% and the difference isn't too huge.

 

10% is a pretty big gap - thats an extra blitz each drive i brought up the 15% by wanny as a comp point to schwartzs 19% last year when they ramped up the pressure. and if we cant use the lions defense because it was cunninghams, and we cant use the titans because it was fishers... well... what can we use to get an idea of him? if hes never had his stamp on any of his defenses the last decade plus, that would worry me more than any scheme discussion.

 

Haven't watched the Lions outside of Thanksgiving, but I wonder. Schwartz says he's going to be flexible in his scheme, fit it to the players etc. Yet, if posts in this thread are to be believed he hasn't shown that with the Lions or Titans. Time will tell.

 

I agree with you (and the poster you are agreeing with), this defense must be outstanding next season for Schwartz to be considered a success.

 

well, the lions he very aggressively built the front four (they had avril, brought in vandenbosh, suh, fairley, and ansah).... so we fit that mold pretty well already. it wont be gutting the roster even in the worst case scenario - which is something weve had to deal with. it just might be a contrast in how we use the talent instead of needing new talent (if that makes sense)

Edited February 5, 2014 by NoSaint

[YoloinOhio]

10% is a pretty big gap - thats an extra blitz each drive i brought up the 15% by wanny as a comp point to schwartzs 19% last year when they ramped up the pressure. and if we cant use the lions defense because it was cunninghams, and we cant use the titans because it was fishers... well... what can we use to get an idea of him? if hes never had his stamp on any of his defenses the last decade plus, that would worry me more than any scheme discussion.

 

 

 

well, the lions he very aggressively built the front four (they had avril, brought in vandenbosh, suh, fairley, and ansah).... so we fit that mold pretty well already. it wont be gutting the roster even in the worst case scenario - which is something weve had to deal with. it just might be a contrast in how we use the talent instead of needing new talent (if that makes sense)

It does make sense and while he came right out and said in his PC that there would be some changes (how could there not be) they would keep some things and change/add others. I don't see anything wrong with this, since there were definitely things that needed changed in order to win.

[section122]

10% is a pretty big gap - thats an extra blitz each drive i brought up the 15% by wanny as a comp point to schwartzs 19% last year when they ramped up the pressure. and if we cant use the lions defense because it was cunninghams, and we cant use the titans because it was fishers... well... what can we use to get an idea of him? if hes never had his stamp on any of his defenses the last decade plus, that would worry me more than any scheme discussion.

 

I have never been in the can't give him too much credit (or blame) because it was Fisher's team camp. I think the DC gets the majority of credit and or blame. Look at Pettine. He came in and rapidly improved over 2 previous coordinators. It was indeed 2 different head coaches but they were both offensive guys. It will be interesting to see what happens for sure and we don't know what he will run. We can make educated guesses based on previous history which is what I think scottlaw was doing I just don't know if we can use the numbers from when he was a HC to reflect what he will do as a DC. As for the one extra blitz per drive how are you computing that stat? To me it would be 1 extra blitz every 10 plays which doesn't seem like that big of a difference. Add the fact that Schwartz's d usually perform better than Pettine's d when it comes to run defense and I would be willing to make that tradeoff.

Edited February 5, 2014 by section122

[4BillsintheBurgh]

10% is a pretty big gap - thats an extra blitz each drive i brought up the 15% by wanny as a comp point to schwartzs 19% last year when they ramped up the pressure. and if we cant use the lions defense because it was cunninghams, and we cant use the titans because it was fishers... well... what can we use to get an idea of him? if hes never had his stamp on any of his defenses the last decade plus, that would worry me more than any scheme discussion.

 

 

 

well, the lions he very aggressively built the front four (they had avril, brought in vandenbosh, suh, fairley, and ansah).... so we fit that mold pretty well already. it wont be gutting the roster even in the worst case scenario - which is something weve had to deal with. it just might be a contrast in how we use the talent instead of needing new talent (if that makes sense)

I wonder if they would make a play for Clowney if he fell to 5?

[BigBuff423]

I haven't weighed in on this topic too much if at all, but I for one believe the additions of Pepper and Pagac are the lynchpins to this Defense. Hiring Jim Schwartz was a good hire, IMO, becuase the BILLS FO demonstrated they are not willing to merely accept mediocrity in the face of adversity and did their best to find a good fit and someone with solid Defensive coaching experience, which is needed given Marrone's real expertise being on the Offensive side of the ball. However, with Pepper Johnson and Pagac coming to Buffalo, this makes the Defense truly respectable. If Pepper Johnson was hired as the DC, that would have been a good hire maybe even, progressive and forward thinking the way Brandon said the team would be run, but by reaching out to Schwartz and landing him as the DC while adding such solid minds and years of experience with Johnson and Pagac, not to mention a tacit understading of a succession plan for possibly Johnson to take over if Schwartz leaves, is layers of intentional planning for the future, and smart...IMO. Two things that seem to have been missing from the BILLS organization for quite some time...in short, Schwartz hire is good, but that hire's solid plan and hopeful future is all the more highlighted by the additions of Johnson and Pagac.

[Pete]

Schwartz better not stop blitzing Robey! If it ain't broken, don't fix it

[YoloinOhio]

Schwartz better not stop blitzing Robey! If it ain't broken, don't fix it

I had this exact same thought, lol

[bbb]

I haven't weighed in on this topic too much if at all, but I for one believe the additions of Pepper and Pagac are the lynchpins to this Defense. Hiring Jim Schwartz was a good hire, IMO, becuase the BILLS FO demonstrated they are not willing to merely accept mediocrity in the face of adversity and did their best to find a good fit and someone with solid Defensive coaching experience, which is needed given Marrone's real expertise being on the Offensive side of the ball. However, with Pepper Johnson and Pagac coming to Buffalo, this makes the Defense truly respectable. If Pepper Johnson was hired as the DC, that would have been a good hire maybe even, progressive and forward thinking the way Brandon said the team would be run, but by reaching out to Schwartz and landing him as the DC while adding such solid minds and years of experience with Johnson and Pagac, not to mention a tacit understading of a succession plan for possibly Johnson to take over if Schwartz leaves, is layers of intentional planning for the future, and smart...IMO. Two things that seem to have been missing from the BILLS organization for quite some time...in short, Schwartz hire is good, but that hire's solid plan and hopeful future is all the more highlighted by the additions of Johnson and Pagac.

 

This is spot on, as far I am concerned.

[OCinBuffalo]

I haven't weighed in on this topic too much if at all, but I for one believe the additions of Pepper and Pagac are the lynchpins to this Defense. Hiring Jim Schwartz was a good hire, IMO, becuase the BILLS FO demonstrated they are not willing to merely accept mediocrity in the face of adversity and did their best to find a good fit and someone with solid Defensive coaching experience, which is needed given Marrone's real expertise being on the Offensive side of the ball. However, with Pepper Johnson and Pagac coming to Buffalo, this makes the Defense truly respectable. If Pepper Johnson was hired as the DC, that would have been a good hire maybe even, progressive and forward thinking the way Brandon said the team would be run, but by reaching out to Schwartz and landing him as the DC while adding such solid minds and years of experience with Johnson and Pagac, not to mention a tacit understading of a succession plan for possibly Johnson to take over if Schwartz leaves, is layers of intentional planning for the future, and smart...IMO. Two things that seem to have been missing from the BILLS organization for quite some time...in short, Schwartz hire is good, but that hire's solid plan and hopeful future is all the more highlighted by the additions of Johnson and Pagac.

I agree, spot on. The behavior you've referred to is begging to form a pattern. Good short term moves, but with a definite eye on the long term.

 

The prhase "hot pockets" hasn't been used here in a long time, but, I think it's time to haul it out: none of this has anything in common with a "hot pocket" solution.

Schwartz better not stop blitzing Robey! If it ain't broken, don't fix it

Robey is an effect, of the cause, that is the leash being taken off our D line, Kiko, and whatever LB I assume will be added.

 

In order fo Robey to continue his blitzing ways, and for them to produce the same results, the offense has to continue to be so scared schitless of the rest of our guys, that they don't have the resources left to devote to Robey.

 

That means: they don't have the resources in the coaches offices, or the players film room, the week before, they don't have the resources left after they've accounted for everybody else, to account for Robey in the gameplan, and then? They don't have the resources on the field, when the ball is snapped, to account for Robey, because they've spent them on everybody else.

 

So, they leave Robey in the wind....and you get your effect.

[John from Riverside]

As nicely as I can put it

 

People need to stop thinking "4-3" defense and then cringe and think of Dave Wannstadt......

 

NOT EVERY 4-3 defense is a read and react, win or die with your front 4, pray that your db's can hold coverage forever defense. There are PLENTY of 4-3 defenses that create pressure in different ways, know how to disguize their defenses, know how to adapt in a game to what a offense is doing.

 

Schwartz is not Wanny.......Wanny was a behind the times washed up, had no business being, DC.....and that is evidenced in that he never got another DC job again after he was released from us.

 

Schwartz is a young, piss and vinager, arrogant, prior head coach who changed a culture in Detroit and took his team to the playoffs, now chip on his shoulder DC. He WILL ACTUALLY KNOW HOW TO USE OUR DOMINANT DL to create things......and that is further evidenced that Pepper Johnson chose to come here from a winning organization to coach under him.

 

Lets not equate Schwartz to Wanny just yet.......I dont see the two as having the same defensive philosphies at all.

Edited February 7, 2014 by John from Hemet

[NoSaint]

As nicely as I can put it

 

People need to stop thinking "4-3" defense and then cringe and think of Dave Wannstadt......

 

NOT EVERY 4-3 defense is a read and react, win or die with your front 4, pray that your db's can hold coverage forever defense. There are PLENTY of 4-3 defenses that create pressure in different ways, know how to disguize their defenses, know how to adapt in a game to what a offense is doing.

 

Schwartz is not Wanny.......Wanny was a behind the times washed up, had no business being, DC.....and that is evidenced in that he never got another DC job again after he was released from us.

 

Schwartz is a young, piss and vinager, arrogant, prior head coach who changed a culture in Detroit and took his team to the playoffs, now chip on his shoulder DC. He WILL ACTUALLY KNOW HOW TO USE OUR DOMINANT DL to create things......and that is further evidenced that Pepper Johnson chose to come here from a winning organization to coach under him.

 

Lets not equate Schwartz to Wanny just yet.......I dont see the two as having the same defensive philosphies at all.

 

Scheme wise, they are similar. Their blitz percentages are in the same ballpark, they lean heavy on the front 4. When you hear about an aggressive Schwartz defense it's about the dlinemen getting to get up field.

 

That said, a kind of vanilla 43 can work, but there was additionally a total failure of execution under wanny when they played it.

 

Also, who knows if his history will be a strong indicator of his future playcalling.

 

Plus we have a lot of talent.

[YoloinOhio]

Scheme wise, they are similar. Their blitz percentages are in the same ballpark, they lean heavy on the front 4. When you hear about an aggressive Schwartz defense it's about the dlinemen getting to get up field.

 

That said, a kind of vanilla 43 can work, but there was additionally a total failure of execution under wanny when they played it.

 

Also, who knows if his history will be a strong indicator of his future playcalling.

 

Plus we have a lot of talent.

When in doubt, always blame Wanny.

[John from Riverside]

I dont have the link or anything.....but I could have sworn there was some talk back when Wanny was here about how the bills wer blitzing....but not getting their when they did blitz.

 

Meaning that Wanny was just too predictable he had too much of a "beat the man in front of you" philosphy

 

You can do some things with your down linemen that do not create run gaps to go through........you can take calculated chances on overloads...us can stunt...u can blitz....u can bring corners at key times

 

The X's and O's of the schemes might look the same....that doesnt mean they actually are the same

[NoSaint]

I dont have the link or anything.....but I could have sworn there was some talk back when Wanny was here about how the bills wer blitzing....but not getting their when they did blitz.

 

Meaning that Wanny was just too predictable he had too much of a "beat the man in front of you" philosphy

 

You can do some things with your down linemen that do not create run gaps to go through........you can take calculated chances on overloads...us can stunt...u can blitz....u can bring corners at key times

 

The X's and O's of the schemes might look the same....that doesnt mean they actually are the same

 

They blitzed 15% of snaps which is right about the lowest in the nfl any year. Schwartz was noted as blitzing a little more down the stretch last year to get up to 19% which was third lowest. I'm not saying they are identical but they aren't distant cousins.

Edited February 7, 2014 by NoSaint