Per Whaley: Nix still plays a role in player personnel decisions

[RuntheDamnBall]

Ba BOOM! Nice.

 

 

 

This is such a tired and unconvicing argument that many here post over and over.

 

It's wrong for several reasons, but mainly for the most obvious: not every team is looking to draft a QB in the first or second round--because they have their solid starter.

 

Even so, NE was doing OK at QB with Bledsoe and a few years left in the tank, yet they decided to draft his replacement--and Brady was hardly an unknown back at Michigan. Seattle had T Jackson and just coveted Flynn to the tune of 8 figures, yet they decided to draft Wilson anyway.

 

Buddy, on the other hand, had bad a team struggling at QB, yet he didn't bother to draft a QB (the Levi Brown pick was an insult to the fanbase) in 3 years. He was oblivious to the biggest need at the most important position on a team.

The Patriots have also selected Rohan Davey, Michael Bishop, Ryan Mallet and Matt Cassell - the last of them found money that they sold high on. Sometimes it works, most of the time it doesn't.

 

If your argument is to try more often as a philosophy, then that's terrific. Is that the argument? It seems like you're saying that the Patriots are smarter at identifying players. It seems to me they are, to some extent, but they're also smarter to take more shots at the dartboard at impact positions. TE is one, QB is another.

[Dean Cain]

Buddy nix had me at "labor pain.."

[FireChan]

 

 

Ba BOOM! Nice.

 

 

 

This is such a tired and unconvicing argument that many here post over and over.

 

It's wrong for several reasons, but mainly for the most obvious: not every team is looking to draft a QB in the first or second round--because they have their solid starter.

 

Even so, NE was doing OK at QB with Bledsoe and a few years left in the tank, yet they decided to draft his replacement--and Brady was hardly an unknown back at Michigan. Seattle had T Jackson and just coveted Flynn to the tune of 8 figures, yet they decided to draft Wilson anyway.

 

Buddy, on the other hand, had bad a team struggling at QB, yet he didn't bother to draft a QB (the Levi Brown pick was an insult to the fanbase) in 3 years. He was oblivious to the biggest need at the most important position on a team.

 

How could Levi Brown be an insulting pick, while Tom Brady be a great pick? Oh, because it's hindsight.

[Cheddar's Dad]

Ba BOOM! Nice.

 

 

 

This is such a tired and unconvicing argument that many here post over and over.

 

It's wrong for several reasons, but mainly for the most obvious: not every team is looking to draft a QB in the first or second round--because they have their solid starter.

 

Even so, NE was doing OK at QB with Bledsoe and a few years left in the tank, yet they decided to draft his replacement--and Brady was hardly an unknown back at Michigan. Seattle had T Jackson and just coveted Flynn to the tune of 8 figures, yet they decided to draft Wilson anyway.

 

Buddy, on the other hand, had bad a team struggling at QB, yet he didn't bother to draft a QB (the Levi Brown pick was an insult to the fanbase) in 3 years. He was oblivious to the biggest need at the most important position on a team.

 

New England having a QB at the time of the Brady draft is not relevant to the idea that hind-sight is 20/20. Proteus used hind- sight In evaluating Buddy's performance and he did so in a most disrespectful way.

 

Fact is every GM in the league, including Belichick, (but possibly excluding Indi where Manning worked), would have pulled a Ditka to get that first pick if they knew before hand that Brady would be Brady.

 

The fact that there is such a divergence of opinion about O-line vs. TE vs. big WR this year and the question of when and if such players should be drafted shows that drafting is not a simple thing when a team has many holes to fill as was the case when Buddy drafted. Additionally, there was a time, although brief, when Fitz looked like he might be ok at QB.

 

I think several all pro players including Darius and Glen will come out of Buddy's drafts and I'm certain there are several GMs that will be shown to be much less successful over that same period of time. And, beyond that, he was entertaining.

[kota]

Please change the title of this thread. You are incorrect in stating that Nix has any kind of say. That is NOT what Whaley said you just spun it that way and presented it as fact. Nix is now a scout END OF STORY.

[Mr. WEO]

The Patriots have also selected Rohan Davey, Michael Bishop, Ryan Mallet and Matt Cassell - the last of them found money that they sold high on. Sometimes it works, most of the time it doesn't.

 

If your argument is to try more often as a philosophy, then that's terrific. Is that the argument? It seems like you're saying that the Patriots are smarter at identifying players. It seems to me they are, to some extent, but they're also smarter to take more shots at the dartboard at impact positions. TE is one, QB is another.

 

Yes, that's the argument. But you know, it never works if you don't try it. They had Bledsoe (unquestioned starter) yet drafted Brady. They had Brady (unquestioned starter) and drafted Cassell, traded him and drafted Mallett.

 

We had Trent, Then we had Fitz. We drafted Levi Brown.

 

Also, Brady wasn't a complete shot at the dartboard (see below), and Gronk and Hernandez certainly were not--and I would remind you, whereas we had no decent TE on the roster, the pats (with Ben Watson on the roster the year before) drafted 2 TE's after we took Troup.

 

 

How could Levi Brown be an insulting pick, while Tom Brady be a great pick? Oh, because it's hindsight.

 

Brady was a 2 year starter at one of the most, if not the most, well known college football program in the country. He won 20 of 25 games a Big Ten title and 2 Bowl games (4 TDs agaisnt Alabama in Orange Bowl).

 

Levi Brown was a future CFL practice squad QB from a Sun Belt backwater who was cut bythe Bills before week 1 (then resigned and cut again).

 

New England having a QB at the time of the Brady draft is not relevant to the idea that hind-sight is 20/20. Proteus used hind- sight In evaluating Buddy's performance and he did so in a most disrespectful way.

 

Fact is every GM in the league, including Belichick, (but possibly excluding Indi where Manning worked), would have pulled a Ditka to get that first pick if they knew before hand that Brady would be Brady.

 

The fact that there is such a divergence of opinion about O-line vs. TE vs. big WR this year and the question of when and if such players should be drafted shows that drafting is not a simple thing when a team has many holes to fill as was the case when Buddy drafted. Additionally, there was a time, although brief, when Fitz looked like he might be ok at QB.

 

I think several all pro players including Darius and Glen will come out of Buddy's drafts and I'm certain there are several GMs that will be shown to be much less successful over that same period of time. And, beyond that, he was entertaining.

 

It has everything to do with this topic--the entire point is that teams that didn't need to draft a QB (or a TE) did anyway. That's not hindsight--it's foresight.

 

Claiming there may be much less successful GMs some day than Buddy is faint praise, indeed. An NFL GM only has two important decisions to make: his QB and his HC. Buddy failed miserably and repeatedly at each.

 

If I wanted to entertained by Buddy's type of shtick, I would be on Hulu watching endless Green Acres and Mayberry RFD episodes.

[FireChan]

 

 

Yes, that's the argument. But you know, it never works if you don't try it. They had Bledsoe (unquestioned starter) yet drafted Brady. They had Brady (unquestioned starter) and drafted Cassell, traded him and drafted Mallett.

 

We had Trent, Then we had Fitz. We drafted Levi Brown.

 

Also, Brady wasn't a complete shot at the dartboard (see below), and Gronk and Hernandez certainly were not--and I would remind you, whereas we had no decent TE on the roster, the pats (with Ben Watson on the roster the year before) drafted 2 TE's after we took Troup.

 

 

 

 

Brady was a 2 year starter at one of the most, if not the most, well known college football program in the country. He won 20 of 25 games a Big Ten title and 2 Bowl games (4 TDs agaisnt Alabama in Orange Bowl).

 

Levi Brown was a future CFL practice squad QB from a Sun Belt backwater who was cut bythe Bills before week 1 (then resigned and cut again).

 

 

 

It has everything to do with this topic--the entire point is that teams that didn't need to draft a QB (or a TE) did anyway. That's not hindsight--it's foresight.

 

Claiming there may be much less successful GMs some day than Buddy is faint praise, indeed. An NFL GM only has two important decisions to make: his QB and his HC. Buddy failed miserably and repeatedly at each.

 

If I wanted to entertained by Buddy's type of shtick, I would be on Hulu watching endless Green Acres and Mayberry RFD episodes.

 

There have only been two young QB's in the last 3 years that have had any consistent success. One of them was first overall. I don't think you've thought this through.

Edited January 23, 2014 by FireChan

[BillsVet]

In 3 years, Nix's personnel group selected zero Pro Bowl or All-Pro caliber players. That may very well change, but the fact that Whaley made changes to the personnel evaluation people tells me Nix wasn't capable of putting people into positions to find talent. He also spent an inordinate time on the road scouting as opposed to other GM's. And yet the Bills needed significant upgrades when Whaley ascended to the job in May.

[TheFunPolice]

Teams consistently win because they have better football players. Belichick didn't suddenly become a worse coach. he just has a weaker roster. Denver and Seattle (and SF for that matter) are teams LOADED with talent all across the board. Heck, Denver is missing some major parts of its defense and they held New England* down to a FG for 3 1/2 quarters until they went to prevent defense.

 

Seattle, SF, Denver. THAT is what a talented roster looks like. Buddy Nix could get those GMs coffee, but that's about it.

 

I know, they won a game vs New England when Brady threw 4INT and had a complete meltdown. So 1-5 in 3 years against them makes Nix a hero to some. I get it, that game was fun. BTW, the Jets almost swept them this season and the Dolphins beat them as well. Teams beat New England* every season. Time to have some real standards.

[RuntheDamnBall]

Also, Brady wasn't a complete shot at the dartboard (see below), and Gronk and Hernandez certainly were not--and I would remind you, whereas we had no decent TE on the roster, the pats (with Ben Watson on the roster the year before) drafted 2 TE's after we took Troup.

 

Brady was a 2 year starter at one of the most, if not the most, well known college football program in the country. He won 20 of 25 games a Big Ten title and 2 Bowl games (4 TDs agaisnt Alabama in Orange Bowl).

I still say that it's a shot at the dart-board. A good shot, but a shot nonetheless. The road to the NFL is littered with the wrecks of great college QBs, most of them with resumes better than Brady's. There were few predictors of the kind of success he had. There's no way even the Pats thought they had a great one on their hands with a sixth round pick. They passed on the guy at least five times.

 

What they did smartly was identify a guy with that kind of resume available late in the draft and take a flyer on him. It's a good policy, but generally those guys are no longer going in the sixth.

[Mr. WEO]

There have only been two young QB's in the last 3 years that have had any consistent success. One of them was first overall. I don't think you've thought this through.

 

I think you left out Kaepernick and/or Wilson. As for the number one pick I'm not sure if you're leaving out Newton or Luck.

 

You didn't think this out at all.

 

 

I still say that it's a shot at the dart-board. A good shot, but a shot nonetheless. The road to the NFL is littered with the wrecks of great college QBs, most of them with resumes better than Brady's. There were few predictors of the kind of success he had. There's no way even the Pats thought they had a great one on their hands with a sixth round pick. They passed on the guy at least five times.

 

What they did smartly was identify a guy with that kind of resume available late in the draft and take a flyer on him. It's a good policy, but generally those guys are no longer going in the sixth.

 

He went to Michigan as like the 7th QB on the roster. He had to claw his way up, getting past the likes of Drew Henson in his junior year. He worked and studied football like a dog by all accounts and stepped in and produced when he was starter in a high pressure school in a competitive conference.

 

In today's world of crazy hype of QBs based on one or two seasons, I bet if Brady had put that record and 2 bowl wins together over the past 2 years at Michigan, many would be writing about him as a hot QB prospect on twitter and in the blogosphere. Aguy whose "stock is rising".

 

I wouldn't be suprised if Bellichick took that sad combine pic of a shirtless Brady in shorts and distributed to every FO back then.

[FireChan]

 

 

I think you left out Kaepernick and/or Wilson. As for the number one pick I'm not sure if you're leaving out Newton or Luck.

 

You didn't think this out at all.

 

 

 

 

He went to Michigan as like the 7th QB on the roster. He had to claw his way up, getting past the likes of Drew Henson in his junior year. He worked and studied football like a dog by all accounts and stepped in and produced when he was starter in a high pressure school in a competitive conference.

 

In today's world of crazy hype of QBs based on one or two seasons, I bet if Brady had put that record and 2 bowl wins together over the past 2 years at Michigan, many would be writing about him as a hot QB prospect on twitter and in the blogosphere. Aguy whose "stock is rising".

 

I wouldn't be suprised if Bellichick took that sad combine pic of a shirtless Brady in shorts and distributed to every FO back then.

 

Newton went 7-9 twice. Not exactly setting the NFL on fire. I did forget Kaep though. So that's 3 QB's in the last 4 years with consistent success. Leaving 29 teams without QB success in the draft. Some of those teams have great QB's though. Does that make missing out on Wilson any less of a failure? How great would it have been for Green Bay to have Russell as their backup this past season? What about a team like the Bears?

 

Like I said, if a GM's only job is to find a QB, at least 20 of them have failed in the last 4 years. AKA that's a stupid premise to argue. If there's only 3 good QB's and Luck was basically unavailable, does Buddy missing on a 2nd and 3rd round QB make him and the rest of the 29 teams that didn't grab them, failures?

Edited January 23, 2014 by FireChan

[BillnutinHouston]

I like your defense of Buddy. I'm a Buddy guy myself. However, I question some of your observations.

 

1. I'm not ready to label T.J. Graham as a mistake. He's a developing player going into his third year which is a time when many players suddenly emerge.

 

2, Buddy is a wonderfully entertaining speaker. I miss his southern accent and sense of humor. If only Dougie was as good as Buddy as a speaker.

 

3. I'm not sure I'd give Buddy credit for Branch and Lawson. Those deals, I think, were made by Whaley last year after Buddy departed.

Agree with you 100%.

[TheFunPolice]

So Buddy drafted a solid tackle and sounds cool when he talks....

 

LOL

 

And we wonder why the Bills are perpetually 6-10 while the real teams play in January.

[BillnutinHouston]

T.J. Graham over Russell Wilson, that is Buddy's legacy.

Every GM in the league passed on Wilson at least twice.

[TheFunPolice]

You guys must be absolutely SMITTEN with Dick Jauron!

 

After all, if Buddy Nix is a "really good football guy" and those 4, 6, and 6 win seasons still inspire passion years later, those 7-9 Jauron seasons must give you the chills!

[Bufcomments]

I am okay with this. No harm in getting an older, experienced guy's take on players.

 

The only concern is that Whaley needs to be in charge and make his own decisions and not let Nix's opinion control-- sounds like that won't be an issue.

how I feel about it, great post

[RuntheDamnBall]

I think you left out Kaepernick and/or Wilson. As for the number one pick I'm not sure if you're leaving out Newton or Luck.

 

You didn't think this out at all.

 

 

 

 

He went to Michigan as like the 7th QB on the roster. He had to claw his way up, getting past the likes of Drew Henson in his junior year. He worked and studied football like a dog by all accounts and stepped in and produced when he was starter in a high pressure school in a competitive conference.

 

In today's world of crazy hype of QBs based on one or two seasons, I bet if Brady had put that record and 2 bowl wins together over the past 2 years at Michigan, many would be writing about him as a hot QB prospect on twitter and in the blogosphere. Aguy whose "stock is rising".

 

I wouldn't be suprised if Bellichick took that sad combine pic of a shirtless Brady in shorts and distributed to every FO back then.

That's all a very nice story and some funny conjecture at the end, but I still submit that no one thinks they are getting their QB of the future, much less a Hall of Famer, much less a top-5 all-time QB in the sixth round.

 

He was a great low-risk, high-reward acquisition in R6. If they believed he was any of the above on draft day, he would have gone higher.

[Cheddar's Dad]

 

 

It has everything to do with this topic--the entire point is that teams that didn't need to draft a QB (or a TE) did anyway. That's not hindsight--it's foresight.

 

Claiming there may be much less successful GMs some day than Buddy is faint praise, indeed. An NFL GM only has two important decisions to make: his QB and his HC. Buddy failed miserably and repeatedly at each.

 

If I wanted to entertained by Buddy's type of shtick, I would be on Hulu watching endless Green Acres and Mayberry RFD episodes.

 

It might be forsight or it might be stupid. In the case of those GMs that selected Gabbert, Locker, Stanzi, Ponder and Weeden, It looks just plain stupid.

 

Sure Buddy selected Gailey. He also dismissed him. Buddy brought in Whaley, trained him to be GM, and Whaley had a pretty nice draft last April (with Buddy's help) seems to me. Shouldn't Buddy get some credit for that. Buddy also selected our current Head Coach and the jury will be out on that for a few more years. But you want to label his time as GM as a disaster. A little quick on the trigger arn't you??

 

It's not faint praise if, after having a few more years to evaluate GMs during Buddy's era, you discover that Buddy outperformed 75% of them. But you'ld prefer not to wait for those results. OK. What can I say?

 

Loved Barnie Fife.

[thewildrabbit]

I see some Bills fans so enamored with Chan Gailey & Buddy Nix that they put portions of their quotes in their own signature.

 

I almost think that Russ Brandon is so very smart at what he does that he probably has some of hiss own people posting in this forum daily to keep the propaganda flowing properly. What is propaganda? Manipulation of information to influence public opinion. Yea, those two ss in "his" were intended.

 

 

Anyway, was hiring Marv Levy as a GM a smart move in terms of building a playoff team? While Levy might always have a good eye for talent, he was never qualified for that position, and he proved it.

 

Buddy Nix is in the same category, as a retired chief scout who was never placed in that high a position before. Think about the opportunity in terms of yourself. You are 70+ years old and are offered millions of dollars to do a job. Would it matter to you that its a job for a younger person who needs to work 20 hour days to get it right, and not a job for someone who needs frequent naps.

 

I look at Buddy Nix and think " king of the band-aid" as all he did was band-aid the team. Can anyone name one area position on the team that Nix himself unquestionably solidified for years? Band-aids everywhere, on the LBers, the QB's, the O line.

 

The acquisition of DE Mario Williams for 100 million dollars put the Bills in a special salary cap situation. http://www.buffalorumblings.com/2012/3/17/2880629/mario-williams-contract-breakdown-buffalo-bills

Yet Whaley makes a trade of one of Nix's draft screw ups and comes up golden with Jerry Hughes.

 

I just don't get how some fans can praise him, and not acknowledge his hiring was a complete disaster from start to finish.

 

In his first year he made the wrong choice for head coach, for assistant coaches, as Gailey hired a lot of his cronies from his days at Georgia Tech to be NFL assistants. Which was something that they had never done before, so it took time for them to learn how to do their jobs. Glaring mistake!

 

George Edwards for defensive coordinator. Glaring mistake!

 

In allowing a switch from a 4-3 Tampa two scheme which required a specific set of personnel to run that scheme to a 3-4 when he clearly didn't have the proper players on the D line or at linebacker. Glaring mistake!

 

Bringing in a FA RT for 2 mil per only to see the guy benched and cut after 6 weeks. Then replaced by players right off the waiver wire! Sound familiar?because the 2013 team did the very same thing at LG.

 

No pass rush. Bad O line, so very little pass protection. Bad QB's. Bad defense. Traded away "beast mode" to Seattle for a 4th when the NO Saints wanted to give up a 3rd, and he never even took their calls.

 

One of the very worst drafts in recent history of the team in 2010. One player out of 9 a situation player.

 

That first year at 4-12 was such a train wreck of ineptitude, its staggering!