RuntheDamnBall Posted January 21, 2014 Posted January 21, 2014 Taking any Tackle over a playmaker at 9 would be a typical Bills FO move. Inexcusable. Guh? Sincerely, CJ Spiller, Lee Evans, "Playmaker" Aaron Maybin, Donte Whitner, Marshawn Lynch
YoloinOhio Posted January 21, 2014 Posted January 21, 2014 (edited) Guh? Sincerely, CJ Spiller, Lee Evans, "Playmaker" Aaron Maybin, Donte Whitner, Marshawn Lynch This is why I am all for taking a "boring" OL anywhere in the 1st rd. Ideally, trade down. But for pete's sake shore up the LOS so you can run freaking screens for your top 10 drafted "playmaker" CJ Spiller Edited January 21, 2014 by YoloinOhio
BigBuff423 Posted January 21, 2014 Posted January 21, 2014 (edited) Matt Smith has Ebron going to Bills at 9. I was going to start another post asking if 9 was too high for Ebron. I don't know anything about Matt Smith. I would love Ebron at 15 and an extra second round pick. I probably still lean OT at 9 but it sure would be nice to have a playmaker at TE. http://www.nfl.com/d...tt-smith/175604 The BILLS, ala Whaley, are too smart to take a TE that high....they know good value at TE can be found and is usually far more productive at rounds 3 and 4. Not to mention with Gragg just starting to make a slight impact at the end of the year and Moekai who can be a good TE when healthy, it just doesn't make sense to draft a TE at 9...or in the 1st or 2nd round at all (unless in the second they have multiple picks, as in more than 2) Edited January 21, 2014 by BigBuff423
shibuya Posted January 21, 2014 Posted January 21, 2014 Taking any Tackle over a playmaker at 9 would be a typical Bills FO move. Inexcusable. this game will forever be won and lost in the trenches. When you have Spiller and Jackson running th eball, and 2nd year QB who needs more time, I find it hard to believe that investing in another OT, who could be a backup LT if Glenn ever went down, or future LT if Glenn walks, is a bad idea
bobobonators Posted January 21, 2014 Posted January 21, 2014 this game will forever be won and lost in the trenches. When you have Spiller and Jackson running th eball, and 2nd year QB who needs more time, I find it hard to believe that investing in another OT, who could be a backup LT if Glenn ever went down, or future LT if Glenn walks, is a bad idea I don't disagree. But not at #9.
YoloinOhio Posted January 21, 2014 Posted January 21, 2014 this game will forever be won and lost in the trenches. When you have Spiller and Jackson running th eball, and 2nd year QB who needs more time, I find it hard to believe that investing in another OT, who could be a backup LT if Glenn ever went down, or future LT if Glenn walks, is a bad idea Or Glenn gets hurt.. simply put we need more OTs on this team who can win the battles at the LOS. I think 9 is high too... but it is a huge need IMO.
Cheddar's Dad Posted January 21, 2014 Posted January 21, 2014 Any team that uses a top 10 pick on a RT, one of the least important positions on the field when you are able to get a difference maker at that pick should fire their entire GM and scouting staff immediately... No RT in the history if the NFL was a difference maker, and top 10 picks should be difference makers D.J. Fluker, selected 11th overall by San Diego, made a big difference in the performance of the Chargers' O-line this year. If you want to quibble about the difference between 9 and 11 go ahead.
Rubes Posted January 21, 2014 Posted January 21, 2014 I wouldn't be disappointed with Ebron or a RT at #9, but this team needs a run-stuffing, game-changing, playmaking LB in a big way.
Cheddar's Dad Posted January 21, 2014 Posted January 21, 2014 this game will forever be won and lost in the trenches. When you have Spiller and Jackson running th eball, and 2nd year QB who needs more time, I find it hard to believe that investing in another OT, who could be a backup LT if Glenn ever went down, or future LT if Glenn walks, is a bad idea The idea is to find a LT quality player and use him at RT. He could be shifted to LT should Glenn go down thereby providing some backup insurance at LT , but more importantly, you draft such a player to provide superior performance at RT. I believe that was the intent of the comment. Spiller received a lot of blame for his running this past year. Truth is on many of his attempts the holes were simply not there.
Mr. WEO Posted January 21, 2014 Posted January 21, 2014 Guh? Sincerely, CJ Spiller, Lee Evans, "Playmaker" Aaron Maybin, Donte Whitner, Marshawn Lynch Only Spiller and Whitner were drafted top 10. Safety isn't a first round "playmaker" pick. Maybin was a dumb pick--as would be picking a Tackle in the top 10. The value isn;t there. this game will forever be won and lost in the trenches. When you have Spiller and Jackson running th eball, and 2nd year QB who needs more time, I find it hard to believe that investing in another OT, who could be a backup LT if Glenn ever went down, or future LT if Glenn walks, is a bad idea You don't draft a lineman in the top 10 to back up another lineman who may get injured some day. That's what the other 6 rounds are for. Or Glenn gets hurt.. simply put we need more OTs on this team who can win the battles at the LOS. I think 9 is high too... but it is a huge need IMO. See above. D.J. Fluker, selected 11th overall by San Diego, made a big difference in the performance of the Chargers' O-line this year. If you want to quibble about the difference between 9 and 11 go ahead. SD had top 10 scoring offenses for 8 of the past 10 years--none of them with Fluker and none with a first round LT. Fluker had little to do with that teams (modest) improvement from 20th in scoring to 12th. I'm betting Rivers would rather they traded down and drafted Hopkins or Patterson instead.
YoloinOhio Posted January 21, 2014 Posted January 21, 2014 Only Spiller and Whitner were drafted top 10. Safety isn't a first round "playmaker" pick. Maybin was a dumb pick--as would be picking a Tackle in the top 10. The value isn;t there. You don't draft a lineman in the top 10 to back up another lineman who may get injured some day. That's what the other 6 rounds are for. See above. SD had top 10 scoring offenses for 8 of the past 10 years--none of them with Fluker and none with a first round LT. Fluker had little to do with that teams (modest) improvement from 20th in scoring to 12th. I'm betting Rivers would rather they traded down and drafted Hopkins or Patterson instead. Disagree. Fluker is an outstanding run blocker. Their "bust" of a 1st rd RB pick, Ryan Matthews, had a career year and allowed Rivers to have a more balanced offense so it wasn't all on him. They were able to add Woodhead with the ability to run more screens with a better OL and they drafted Keenan Allen as well who was better than Hopkins or Patterson this year.
RuntheDamnBall Posted January 21, 2014 Posted January 21, 2014 Only Spiller and Whitner were drafted top 10. Safety isn't a first round "playmaker" pick. Maybin was a dumb pick--as would be picking a Tackle in the top 10. The value isn;t there. Top 10 vs Top 11-12 is really semantics. These are top picks for the Bills in the first half of the draft. Maybin was drafted to collect sacks. Evans was drafted to be a #1 receiver. Whitner was drafted with hopes of being an Ed Reed / Polamalu talent. These are all guys expected to be playmakers. Value on a pick isn't written in stone on draft day. If the Bills draft the equivalent of a Jim Ritcher or a Will Wolford at #9, it will be a resounding success and people won't remember or care if we could have had the same guy at pick #16. Now, if you think a HOF playmaker is there and your system will permit him to flourish - instead of getting stuffed at the line... sure, go for it, don't pick the lineman.
billsgpr88 Posted January 21, 2014 Posted January 21, 2014 I'm not sure about Ebron at 9 guys. Is Ebron that much better than Amaro and/or ASJ? I dunno. I mean I like him, but I'm not sure I like him that much. In other words, I wouldn't be disappointed if we ended up with any of the top 3 TE's. We can technically trade down and still land 1 of the top 3 TE's. Also, other than Vernon Davis, has a TE ever been drafted in the top 10? Maybe I'm having a brain fart, but I can't think of one off the top of my head. Kellen 'happy hands' Winslow, I believe
Iraq Vet Posted January 21, 2014 Posted January 21, 2014 (edited) We need to just take the best guy that has the fastest chance to develop into a super star. Kiko would now be drafted as a top 10. So even if a bonified future HOF'er running back is there you take him. There is not one position on this team that is lock, so you draft the best no matter what in 1st round except maybe DB, and kickers. Pick you posistion. LT.. Glen can move inside or to RT for some one better, OG... Imagine a lights out HOF between Woods and Glen. Even CJ can hit those holes. WR... please, anyone of them can be cut to make room, QB... upgrade if you can. EJ is ok, but if your analysis shows someone with higher long term greatness... you do it. RB... the clock is ticking on Freddie & CJ is a little bit of a question mark now, If the potential is better than CJ you do it. TE... who is not on board with that? DL... lot of nice players, but Darius is in a contract year and how much longer does K. Williams have in the tank LB... Kiko can be shifted around, CB.... leave lone pick up a late round pick S.... Byrd is gone. My point is there are some very nice players on this team. No one truly great. No one that can't be moved, shifted or traded for a truly great rookie. Edited January 21, 2014 by Iraq Vet
reddogblitz Posted January 21, 2014 Posted January 21, 2014 I'm totally in support of this (Ebron at 9) although I'd rather have Austin Seferian-Jenkins.
C.Biscuit97 Posted January 21, 2014 Posted January 21, 2014 Using a top-10 draft pick on a TE would be a poor use of resources but typical for the Buffalo Bills, so I expect it to be a real possibility. So if you could a re-do draft, Gronk and Graham won't be top 10 picks? It's a passing league. Part of the outrage fans had about Whitner was you don't draft a S that high. I doubt Hawks and Chiefs fans are pissed about drafting Thomas and Barry. The Bills need difference makers. A TE that is a matchup nightmare is a difference maker.
YoloinOhio Posted January 21, 2014 Posted January 21, 2014 So if you could a re-do draft, Gronk and Graham won't be top 10 picks? It's a passing league. Part of the outrage fans had about Whitner was you don't draft a S that high. I doubt Hawks and Chiefs fans are pissed about drafting Thomas and Barry. The Bills need difference makers. A TE that is a matchup nightmare is a difference maker. I agree, it would open up the offense tremendously.
Mr. WEO Posted January 21, 2014 Posted January 21, 2014 (edited) Disagree. Fluker is an outstanding run blocker. Their "bust" of a 1st rd RB pick, Ryan Matthews, had a career year and allowed Rivers to have a more balanced offense so it wasn't all on him. They were able to add Woodhead with the ability to run more screens with a better OL and they drafted Keenan Allen as well who was better than Hopkins or Patterson this year. Allen had a great year, this is true. But that was found money. Patterson would have had all those yards and maybe more with Rivers throwing to him as the primary receiver. And the biggest difference in this offense over the previous year was Whisenhut, not Fluker. As I said, they were doing fine without a first round LT for a decade (number one scoring offense just 2 years ago). As for Rivers, it's still pretty much mostly on him as he threw more passes than the year before--his second highest ever. Matthews had a better year in total yards but, again in 2011, he too had a great year running behind that o-line for 1100 yards and 4.9 per. Caught far more passes too. I just don't see Fluker as much of a difference in a perennial offensive juggernaught. Top 10 vs Top 11-12 is really semantics. These are top picks for the Bills in the first half of the draft. Maybin was drafted to collect sacks. Evans was drafted to be a #1 receiver. Whitner was drafted with hopes of being an Ed Reed / Polamalu talent. These are all guys expected to be playmakers. Value on a pick isn't written in stone on draft day. If the Bills draft the equivalent of a Jim Ritcher or a Will Wolford at #9, it will be a resounding success and people won't remember or care if we could have had the same guy at pick #16. Now, if you think a HOF playmaker is there and your system will permit him to flourish - instead of getting stuffed at the line... sure, go for it, don't pick the lineman. Because Reed and Palumalu exist is not a reason to believe any safety you pick in the top 10 (or 12) is going to be that kind of player. In fact, it has taken those outstanding players at the position (and maybe a handful of others) to even mention safety as a big impact position. It's silly to say that a skill position (playmaker) has to be a "HOF playmaker" to select him in the first. Especially if your alternative is an o-lineman. Playmakers move the chains or get to the QB in today's NFL (you can mention the handful of playmakers at DB, but you will have to ingnore all of the rest). A pretty good LT (think of Glenn, a second rounder) is indistinguishable, on him own, form a "great LT". That's just the nature of the position. It's an ensemble position, as are of the o-line spots. Edited January 21, 2014 by Mr. WEO
Cheddar's Dad Posted January 21, 2014 Posted January 21, 2014 So if you could a re-do draft, Gronk and Graham won't be top 10 picks? It's a passing league. Part of the outrage fans had about Whitner was you don't draft a S that high. I doubt Hawks and Chiefs fans are pissed about drafting Thomas and Barry. The Bills need difference makers. A TE that is a matchup nightmare is a difference maker. The outrage this fan had with the drafting of Whitner was that Marv could have drafted Heloti Gnata. Buffalo could have won a few SBs if they could have acquired Ted Washington four years earlier than they did. One might think that Levy should have known that it was the lack of bulk and brute strength at Nose that enabled the Cowboys and Redskins to dominate our O-line and cost the team those trophys. Yet, as GM, he drafted Whitner over Gnata. I'm still not over it! Any player that is a "matchup nightmayer" is a difference maker even if that player is an O-lineman. Regarding TE's in this draft; is there a difference maker among them, one that can help the team as much as Greg Robinson at RT?? Remember, the Bills have Chandler. They are not hurting at that position. They are hurting at RT and LG. I think it is a mistake to ever pronounce absolutes when talking about anything, i.e. you don't draft (insert player position here) that high. Absolutes limit thinking. The secret to successful drafting is selecting players in the first and second rounds that can contribute the most at positions of greatest need. Bust selections in those rounds, or selections that marginally upgrade your team, set you back at least one year and possibly more than that.
dubs Posted January 21, 2014 Posted January 21, 2014 I am not sure, but this excerpt from his Bills projection might harm his credibility a little: I feel better about this being the pick than any other in the top 10. I like their talent at all levels of the defense, and they have playmakers at every other skill position on offense. They need a tight end, and Ebron will be the guy.
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