first_and_ten Posted January 21, 2014 Posted January 21, 2014 The fact that the player was Whitner, he sucks, and everything he does is wrong because he was drafted 8th by the Bills over guys that people here had bigger hard-ons for. At least the Bills drafted John Mcargo in the 26th spot that year.
Sisyphean Bills Posted January 21, 2014 Posted January 21, 2014 Actually, I watched quite a few 49ers games this season. They typically played the later games, and Frank Gore was one of my FF running backs. Look, there is no question that Whitner makes plays. He had a tremendous pass break up during the game on Sunday. The problem is his inconsistency. I think as Bills fans, we all can recall the way he was so poor at defending the deep routes. This is nothing new. I can't understand why folks are so quick to come to his defense when his shortcomings are so well documented (and oft on display for a national TV audience). I don't hate the guy...that would be silly. I just think that his "self-promotion" is classless, and is not supported by his play on the field. His inadequacies are sometimes masked, IMO, due to the fact that he is surrounded by very good players on a very good defense. Not sure "we all" remember he wasn't great in coverage. There were a vocal few that had the take he was the next thing to, if not, a bona fide shut-down corner, who could also play the run when he was here. That take persisted despite games where he was isolated and targeted in the passing game by opponents. He's not the worst player of all time (to quote Marrone) "obviously". However, he was the first player taken by the Marv Levy GM'd Bills and his selection as well as the entire 2006 draft class (the DB gold rush), which can be evaluated now, was emblematic of mediocre to even downright poor evaluation and decision making.
NoSaint Posted January 21, 2014 Posted January 21, 2014 I love talking about the performance of former Bills in a non-axe-to-grind way. ill agree on that front. i think it lends some perspective to what the team has done right/wrong, or where my own evaluations have been good/bad.... the fact that you have seen so much of a guys career, and are now seeing him in new surroundings can give interesting info.... but i tend not to go into it hoping they all fail. especially around the playoffs it seems a lot of people come here to say either "hes the worst player ever our GM sucked for getting that guy" or "hes the greatest our gm sucked for letting him go" with very little else to add beyond "the bills suck"
dave mcbride Posted January 21, 2014 Posted January 21, 2014 ill agree on that front. i think it lends some perspective to what the team has done right/wrong, or where my own evaluations have been good/bad.... the fact that you have seen so much of a guys career, and are now seeing him in new surroundings can give interesting info.... but i tend not to go into it hoping they all fail. especially around the playoffs it seems a lot of people come here to say either "hes the worst player ever our GM sucked for getting that guy" or "hes the greatest our gm sucked for letting him go" with very little else to add beyond "the bills suck" When I look at former Bills from the Levy era onward, here's what I see: Fitzpatrick: the same guy he's always been. He'll never be any better. Lynch: a legitimately great player. A difference maker. Jason Peters: a dominating player when healthy. He's made 5 pro bowls with Philly and two first team all pro teams. He has had two utterly dominating, best-LT-in-the-league type of seasons (2011 and 2013). He did lose a season to injury, but he came back from it strong. Whitner: Pretty much the same player he was with the Bills, although he was markedly better this year than last year. He's a pretty good player at this point. Kelvin Sheppard: JAG; mediocre. Aaron Maybin: Had a few try-hard sacks for the Jets, but basically inadequate. Out of the league, as far as I know. Andy Levitre: played hurt this year and was by most accounts OK. Not great. Better than what the Bills had, but at a stiff price. I expect him to be better next season. Since he has a long contract, he has to be judged on the long term, not one season. Paul Posluszny: A good veteran player who took undeserved heat here. He did get hurt a couple of times in Buffalo, but he's been healthy in Jax. Basically, he's a good player on a bad team with a terrible front seven overall. He was excellent this year: seven stuffs, 9 passes defensed, 3 sacks, 2 INTs, 1 TD scored, 1 forced fumble, 1 fumble recovery, and 161 tackles overall. The stuff and PD numbers are very high compared to other LBs. Alonso had 11 stuffs and 5 passes defensed. NaVorro Bowman had 5, sacks, 4 forced fumbles, 2 INTs, 6 stuffs and 9 passes defensed. The point is that he's comparable to (albeit not necessarily equal to) the better MLBs in the league. John Wendling: Career backup. Trent Edwards: Did nothing elsewhere. Da'Rick Rogers: To early to tell.
Malazan Posted January 21, 2014 Posted January 21, 2014 I hope that this makes you feel better about another 6-10 season. You totally missed the point but feel free to discuss whatever you want (especially if it makes you sleep at night). The point was that we have way bigger issues and problems to discuss than the performance of Whitner, Lynch, etc... Do you think the Patriots care at all about what their former players are doing? All that they care about is what they need to do to win. It's such a loser mentality to be the jaded ex-gf. She picked a new man that's much more successful than you. Move on... "WE" don't have any work to do. 'WE" don't make the decisions. I'm sorry if you are limited in that you can 'only' discuss one thing at a time. Also, isn't the statement "Do you think the Patriots care at all about what their former players are doing?" foolish considering that BB seemed awfully concerned about former patriot Welker. Also, much like the Bills, the patriots and their fans are two different things. Would you like me to link to a bunch of posts from the pats forums about former players? There's quite a few.
Kirby Jackson Posted January 21, 2014 Posted January 21, 2014 (edited) "WE" don't have any work to do. 'WE" don't make the decisions. I'm sorry if you are limited in that you can 'only' discuss one thing at a time. Also, isn't the statement "Do you think the Patriots care at all about what their former players are doing?" foolish considering that BB seemed awfully concerned about former patriot Welker. Also, much like the Bills, the patriots and their fans are two different things. Would you like me to link to a bunch of posts from the pats forums about former players? There's quite a few. Ha ha, yeah BB cared about his best defensive player being taken out in a conference championship game by a former player. He was not sitting at home complaining about the one that got away. That's just such a loser mentality. My concern is the Bills winning. I don't really care what anyone else is doing. I am working on developing my limited football knowledge so that I can contribute in a useful manner on this forum. When I look at former Bills from the Levy era onward, here's what I see: Fitzpatrick: the same guy he's always been. He'll never be any better. Lynch: a legitimately great player. A difference maker. Jason Peters: a dominating player when healthy. He's made 5 pro bowls with Philly and two first team all pro teams. He has had two utterly dominating, best-LT-in-the-league type of seasons (2011 and 2013). He did lose a season to injury, but he came back from it strong. Whitner: Pretty much the same player he was with the Bills, although he was markedly better this year than last year. He's a pretty good player at this point. Kelvin Sheppard: JAG; mediocre. Aaron Maybin: Had a few try-hard sacks for the Jets, but basically inadequate. Out of the league, as far as I know. Andy Levitre: played hurt this year and was by most accounts OK. Not great. Better than what the Bills had, but at a stiff price. I expect him to be better next season. Since he has a long contract, he has to be judged on the long term, not one season. Paul Posluszny: A good veteran player who took undeserved heat here. He did get hurt a couple of times in Buffalo, but he's been healthy in Jax. Basically, he's a good player on a bad team with a terrible front seven overall. He was excellent this year: seven stuffs, 9 passes defensed, 3 sacks, 2 INTs, 1 TD scored, 1 forced fumble, 1 fumble recovery, and 161 tackles overall. The stuff and PD numbers are very high compared to other LBs. Alonso had 11 stuffs and 5 passes defensed. NaVorro Bowman had 5, sacks, 4 forced fumbles, 2 INTs, 6 stuffs and 9 passes defensed. The point is that he's comparable to (albeit not necessarily equal to) the better MLBs in the league. John Wendling: Career backup. Trent Edwards: Did nothing elsewhere. Da'Rick Rogers: To early to tell. Nice post Dave. I agree with your analysis as well. Edited January 21, 2014 by Kirby Jackson
dave mcbride Posted January 21, 2014 Posted January 21, 2014 Ha ha, yeah BB cared about his best defensive player being taken out in a conference championship game by a former player. He was not sitting at home complaining about the one that got away. That's just such a loser mentality. My concern is the Bills winning. I don't really care what anyone else is doing. I am working on developing my limited football knowledge so that I can contribute in a useful manner on this forum. Nice post Dave. I agree with your analysis as well. Thanks. Looking at Poz makes me think that he would have been a good MLB on this D. Put him there and Kiko on the outside, and you go a long way toward addressing the Bills' one defensive weakness. Oh well -- 20/20 hindsight and all ...
enlightener Posted January 21, 2014 Posted January 21, 2014 why wouldn't we make fun of this guy, regardless of what team hes on? He sucked for 4 years for us and still talked smack even in his contract year. Him being on a superbowl/afc champ team has almost zero to with his skills...he is their weakest link.
dave mcbride Posted January 21, 2014 Posted January 21, 2014 why wouldn't we make fun of this guy, regardless of what team hes on? He sucked for 4 years for us and still talked smack even in his contract year. Him being on a superbowl/afc champ team has almost zero to with his skills...he is their weakest link. This is false. Interesting analysis of Whitner that doesn't include this season. His nickname should be "the garbageman," which isn't pejorative: http://www.bayareasportsguy.com/donte-whitner-cleaning-up-the-garbage-since-2011/ Whitner was also Pro Football Focus's second team all-pro at strong safety this year: https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2014/01/06/2013-pff-all-pro-team/2/
JPS Posted January 21, 2014 Posted January 21, 2014 Ouch. But no surprise. Whitner is not good in coverage. He's also not good against the run. And he seems to be terrible in the clutch. Otherwise, he is a pro bowl safety. guys, how can this be hating on the guy when every analytic out there supports the fact that whitner isn't any good? Except for Pro Football Focus, which had Whitner as the 5th best cover SS with 15 or so passes defensed…. It's interesting how successful players like Lynch, Whitner, Winfield, Clements, D. Edwards all "sucked" as soon as they left Buffalo. There can be little debate that Buffalo let their most talented players leave over the last 10 years (with little in return) and struggled to replace them in the draft. That is why the Bills must sign Byrd.
dave mcbride Posted January 21, 2014 Posted January 21, 2014 Except for Pro Football Focus, which had Whitner as the 5th best cover SS with 15 or so passes defensed…. It's interesting how successful players like Lynch, Whitner, Winfield, Clements, D. Edwards all "sucked" as soon as they left Buffalo. There can be little debate that Buffalo let their most talented players leave over the last 10 years (with little in return) and struggled to replace them in the draft. That is why the Bills must sign Byrd. PFF ranked him #2 at SS this season (see above).
Kirby Jackson Posted January 21, 2014 Posted January 21, 2014 This is false. Interesting analysis of Whitner that doesn't include this season. His nickname should be "the garbageman," which isn't pejorative: http://www.bayareasportsguy.com/donte-whitner-cleaning-up-the-garbage-since-2011/ Whitner was also Pro Football Focus's second team all-pro at strong safety this year: https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2014/01/06/2013-pff-all-pro-team/2/ Get out of here with all of your facts and when you do come back don't forget your pitchfork!
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted January 21, 2014 Posted January 21, 2014 This is false. Interesting analysis of Whitner that doesn't include this season. His nickname should be "the garbageman," which isn't pejorative: http://www.bayareasp...age-since-2011/ Whitner was also Pro Football Focus's second team all-pro at strong safety this year: https://www.profootb...all-pro-team/2/ 1) The garbageman label is so classic, because Whitner is the best at that-- he's the last guy to jump on a pile. 2) For the 2012-13 season, PFF ranked Whitner as the "53rd best safety in football and 68th best in coverage." http://www.bayareasportsguy.com/49ers-secondary-was-primary-reason-for-playoff-collapse/ It makes me question PFF if one year, their rankings have a guy at 53rd, and the next year he is considered to be "second team all-pro." What is the basis for his second team designation this year? None was given in the article.
dave mcbride Posted January 21, 2014 Posted January 21, 2014 (edited) 1) The garbageman label is so classic, because Whitner is the best at that-- he's the last guy to jump on a pile. 2) For the 2012-13 season, PFF ranked Whitner as the "53rd best safety in football and 68th best in coverage." http://www.bayareasp...ayoff-collapse/ It makes me question PFF if one year, their rankings have a guy at 53rd, and the next year he is considered to be "second team all-pro." What is the basis for his second team designation this year? None was given in the article. He genuinely did have a good season this year. His passes defensed numbers were way up - 50 percent higher than ever before in his career. He was not especially good the previous year. Edited January 21, 2014 by dave mcbride
QCity Posted January 21, 2014 Posted January 21, 2014 Interesting analysis of Whitner that doesn't include this season. His nickname should be "the garbageman," which isn't pejorative: http://www.bayareasp...age-since-2011/ SF fans seem to be faster learners than us. The Donte Plan: 1) Try to make at least 1 big hit a season by recklessly launching yourself at the ball carrier (don't worry about wrapping him up). 2) Hope the hit was big enough to make Sportscenter and go viral on the internet. 3) Talk as brashly as possible. This makes people forget all the blown coverages, missed tackles, and penalties. And if you play on a successful team, you may even reap some accolades like a Pro Bowl nod!
dave mcbride Posted January 21, 2014 Posted January 21, 2014 SF fans seem to be faster learners than us. The Donte Plan: 1) Try to make at least 1 big hit a season by recklessly launching yourself at the ball carrier (don't worry about wrapping him up). 2) Hope the hit was big enough to make Sportscenter and go viral on the internet. 3) Talk as brashly as possible. This makes people forget all the blown coverages, missed tackles, and penalties. And if you play on a successful team, you may even reap some accolades like a Pro Bowl nod! If you read the full piece, it ends up saying some positive things about him.
Estelle Getty Posted January 21, 2014 Author Posted January 21, 2014 And Yet this seems to work for him. I would love to get my hands on lil Donte getting layed out by 33 year old finesse runner Sammy Morris like the sorry sack of **** that he is. Having to get carried off haha. He is exactly what's wrong with the NFL. I ask and you shall receive. This is the best Bills highlight of the decade in my opinion. It also sums up lil Dontes career.
JPS Posted January 21, 2014 Posted January 21, 2014 PFF ranked him #2 at SS this season (see above). Even better...
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