thebandit27 Posted January 16, 2014 Posted January 16, 2014 A direct quote from kiper after the draft which contradicts your nonsense. "Kiper gave the Bills a "D" for value. Unsurprisingly, quarterback E.J. Manuel was the sticking point. Kiper liked the move to trade down in the first round, but still didn't think Manuel was worth the No. 16 overall pick. The bad is I just think the No. 16 pick was way too high for EJ Manuel. For me, there's simply too much projection here. He needs to prove that he's capable of getting through progressions quicker and getting the ball out. He was my No. 6-ranked QB. But that was a need position, and you take the guy you feel can pan out. It's just remarkable in hindsight to see the top QBs still available into Round 4." Don't let the facts get in your way. You continue to amaze me...I refuted your statement that "EJ was a consensus 3rd round pick or worse" by telling you that Mayock said on the day of the draft that EJ would go in the first. I also linked an article where he basically says the same thing...I then continued to provide links to show you that EJ was by no means "a consensus 3rd round pick or worse". Your response to me is to tell me that Kiper gave the Bills' draft a D because of the Manuel pick? And I'm the one touting "nonsense"? I think we're done here.
K-9 Posted January 16, 2014 Posted January 16, 2014 Haha, kiper thought the Alonzo pick was a reach too. I remember Kiper saying that about Glenn. My whole argument is the ej pick still lacked value even after the tradedown. Value is a relative term largely manufactured by the draftnik industry. When scouts talk of value they are talking about guys taken well after their projected grades indicate. Some may argue Manuel was a "reach" but not anyone that had him pegged in the late first. Depending on how a draft is falling relative to your draft board, if you feel your guy is there, you take him. That's just not considered reaching so much as securing your player. GO BILLS!!!
thebandit27 Posted January 16, 2014 Posted January 16, 2014 So much for the Pettine discussion... Yes, let's please get back to Pettine...I promise I won't respond to the other poster any more...sorry. Regarding Pettine, I don't blame Cleveland for interviewing him...just looking at what he did in comparison to the defense the team had in 2012 tells you all you need to know: he can get a lot out of good personnel. If he goes, I'll wish him well...I hope he stays though.
YoloinOhio Posted January 16, 2014 Posted January 16, 2014 Value is a relative term largely manufactured by the draftnik industry. When scouts talk of value they are talking about guys taken well after their projected grades indicate. Some may argue Manuel was a "reach" but not anyone that had him pegged in the late first. Depending on how a draft is falling relative to your draft board, if you feel your guy is there, you take him. That's just not considered reaching so much as securing your player. GO BILLS!!! Exactly. What does "value" mean from your 1st rd pick if you also get a UDFA who is starting (Robey), a ROY in the 2nd and 2 contributing WRs in the 2nd and 3rd? Dee Milliner was considered good "value" where the Jets took him but royally sucked and got benched. Where's the value now?
BuffaloBillsForever Posted January 16, 2014 Posted January 16, 2014 So now Kiper represents all pundits? Okay. The poster quoted several sources stating the opposite but because Kiper didn't agree what the poster said was "utter nonsense?" I guess in your worldview Kiper is the end all be it when it comes to draft and the "consensus" is whatever he says. I haven't seen anything from Mayock that he graded Manuel as a 1st round talent. Just that Mayock thinks in terms of needs a team might reach for him in the 1st which the Bills did. They are two different things. But yeah lets get back to the Pettine discussion.
GG Posted January 16, 2014 Posted January 16, 2014 A direct quote from kiper after the draft which contradicts your nonsense. "Kiper gave the Bills a "D" for value. Unsurprisingly, quarterback E.J. Manuel was the sticking point. Kiper liked the move to trade down in the first round, but still didn't think Manuel was worth the No. 16 overall pick. The bad is I just think the No. 16 pick was way too high for EJ Manuel. For me, there's simply too much projection here. He needs to prove that he's capable of getting through progressions quicker and getting the ball out. He was my No. 6-ranked QB. But that was a need position, and you take the guy you feel can pan out. It's just remarkable in hindsight to see the top QBs still available into Round 4." Don't let the facts get in your way. A long established debate truism is never introduce data that undermines your main point. You may think that you're making a valid argument by quoting Kiper. But in the way that the season turned out, EJ was by far not the 6th-ranked QB. So by that measure, anything that Kiper says in his QB evaluation should be thrown out the window.
Malazan Posted January 16, 2014 Posted January 16, 2014 I still think the Browns should at least talk to Urban Meyer.
BuffaloBillsForever Posted January 16, 2014 Posted January 16, 2014 (edited) According to ESPN Pettine is one of seven candidates that will/have interview(ed) for the HC position. Edited January 16, 2014 by BuffaloBillsForever
YoloinOhio Posted January 16, 2014 Posted January 16, 2014 I still think the Browns should at least talk to Urban Meyer.
Spiderweb Posted January 16, 2014 Posted January 16, 2014 You continue to amaze me...I refuted your statement that "EJ was a consensus 3rd round pick or worse" by telling you that Mayock said on the day of the draft that EJ would go in the first. I also linked an article where he basically says the same thing...I then continued to provide links to show you that EJ was by no means "a consensus 3rd round pick or worse". Your response to me is to tell me that Kiper gave the Bills' draft a D because of the Manuel pick? And I'm the one touting "nonsense"? I think we're done here. Sounds like your adversary is a Faux News disciple. Facts and the truth have nothing to do with his position.
Reddy Freddy Posted January 16, 2014 Posted January 16, 2014 My 2 cents ... If the Browns hire Pettine this year, they have some brass balls. As others have pointed out, it would have to be considered a PR disaster to hire a coordinator from the 6-10 Bills. It could end up being the right move for Cle, but it would take some guts to pull the trigger. Here's hoping they don't ...
Nitro Posted January 16, 2014 Posted January 16, 2014 (edited) Fox News fan here. Pettine discussion to continue........... If he goes, good for him. Bills could have denied him the interview and that would be their right but not in his best interest. Cleveland is a city desperate for a quality HC and I can't blame them. I don't think Pettine's time is now. If he was smart, he'd wait for an offer from a more stable team. The Browns, from ownership to GM, has been under the gun for the past year. I think the job will go to an OC in the playoffs, either Denver OC Gase or NE OC McDaniel. Edited January 16, 2014 by Nitro
K-9 Posted January 16, 2014 Posted January 16, 2014 Fox News fan here. Pettine discussion to continue........... If he goes, good for him. Bills could have denied him the interview and that would be their right but not in his best interest. Cleveland is a city desperate for a quality HC and I can't blame them. I don't think Pettine's time is now. If he was smart, he'd wait for an offer from a more stable team. The Browns, from ownership to GM, has been under the gun for the past year. I think the job will go to an OC in the playoffs, either Denver OC Gase or NE OC McDaniel. McDaniels has already removed his name from consideration. GO BILLS!!!
GA BILLS FAN Posted January 16, 2014 Posted January 16, 2014 Fox News fan here. Pettine discussion to continue........... If he goes, good for him. Bills could have denied him the interview and that would be their right but not in his best interest. Cleveland is a city desperate for a quality HC and I can't blame them. I don't think Pettine's time is now. If he was smart, he'd wait for an offer from a more stable team. The Browns, from ownership to GM, has been under the gun for the past year. I think the job will go to an OC in the playoffs, either Denver OC Gase or NE OC McDaniel. I think the Browns want Gase --- and would "settle" for some of the other candidates still in the running, most likely Munchak ---- I also agree that the Browns situation is dysfunctional and a hornet's nest to walk into it -- and agree there is probably a better situation awaiting Pettine if he stays and continues to do well --- i.e. he becomes the sought after coordinator --- the issue, for Pettine (assuming he's offered position), how much does he want to roll the dice ? ---- McDaniels and Bowles decided to roll dice and wait until next off-season ---- possible open HC jobs next year, assuming no changes to HC with less than 3 years --- could be: Miami, NY Jets, Cincinnati, Oakland, Dallas and NY Giants ---
Nitro Posted January 16, 2014 Posted January 16, 2014 (edited) Well Hells Bells. I was hoping McDaniel would go. Rats. TXBILLSFAN, I think you are on to something. Next off season may have a better group of organizations looking for a HC. Edited January 16, 2014 by Nitro
GA BILLS FAN Posted January 16, 2014 Posted January 16, 2014 Well Hells Bells. I was hoping McDaniel would go. Rats. TXBILLSFAN, I think you are on to something. Next off season may have a better group of organizations looking for a HC. Maybe Pettine's desire is to replace REX in NY ? --- we'd love to keep MP here another year, but, boy would we hate that afterward
apuszczalowski Posted January 16, 2014 Posted January 16, 2014 I think the Browns want Gase --- and would "settle" for some of the other candidates still in the running, most likely Munchak ---- I also agree that the Browns situation is dysfunctional and a hornet's nest to walk into it -- and agree there is probably a better situation awaiting Pettine if he stays and continues to do well --- i.e. he becomes the sought after coordinator --- the issue, for Pettine (assuming he's offered position), how much does he want to roll the dice ? ---- McDaniels and Bowles decided to roll dice and wait until next off-season ---- possible open HC jobs next year, assuming no changes to HC with less than 3 years --- could be: Miami, NY Jets, Cincinnati, Oakland, Dallas and NY Giants --- Ryan reportedly just signed an extension for some extra years, he's probably not going anywhere next offseason
K-9 Posted January 16, 2014 Posted January 16, 2014 Well Hells Bells. I was hoping McDaniel would go. Rats. TXBILLSFAN, I think you are on to something. Next off season may have a better group of organizations looking for a HC. Take heart. McDaniels leaving or staying makes no difference in NE. That's Brady's offense and will be until he decides to hang 'em up. GO BILLS!!!
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