Rob's House Posted January 16, 2014 Posted January 16, 2014 The drop stats change my outlook on Lee. I think he's better at running and cutting than the other guys on that list, but that doesn't matter if you can't catch the ball. I still wouldn't mind seeing him as a Bill, but I don't know that he's at the top of my list. As far as the line, I'd like to see upgrades to the OL, but the group we have is reasonably adequate at pass protection. The rookie QB carousel made the pass protection look worse than it was.
thewildrabbit Posted January 16, 2014 Posted January 16, 2014 If Buffalo does not fix the O-line, E.J. will be decked or running for his life before Evans can run 20 yards. I've been arguing that the Bills should build a solid O line since I've been posting in this forum. This franchise has been intent on drafting defense, and skill players over the big uglies no matter what the last decade! With every single regime change it seems like they make an attempt at one or two players and then stop. I suppose someone at OBD just can't stop thinking of those impact playmaking players
mrags Posted January 16, 2014 Posted January 16, 2014 I've been arguing that the Bills should build a solid O line since I've been posting in this forum. This franchise has been intent on drafting defense, and skill players over the big uglies no matter what the last decade! With every single regime change it seems like they make an attempt at one or two players and then stop. I suppose someone at OBD just can't stop thinking of those impact playmaking players i agree with this as well. The only thing that takes me down a bit is that Marrone is an ex NFL Olinemen and he may know what he's got or find a way to get someone he is confident with, with a later draft pick. But I generally agree with you. Especially in the DL. The DTs are not run stuffing DTs. They are pass rush penetrators.
metzelaars_lives Posted January 16, 2014 Posted January 16, 2014 (edited) I've been arguing that the Bills should build a solid O line since I've been posting in this forum. This franchise has been intent on drafting defense, and skill players over the big uglies no matter what the last decade! With every single regime change it seems like they make an attempt at one or two players and then stop. I suppose someone at OBD just can't stop thinking of those impact playmaking players The Bills have had a solid offensive line since you've been posting in this forum. They had a very good line in '07-'08 and then again in '11 and '12. Look at the numbers. In today's NFL, you simply aren't going to have 5 all pros on offensive line. They have a franchise left tackle and a damn solid center. That's a hell of a lot more than most teams can say. They need some help at guard but it's far from unfixable and truthfully, it's probably the position most easily addressed in free agency. I am excited about the prospect of taking the best wide receiver in the draft. It's not like we've ever done that in these recent regimes either. Edited January 16, 2014 by metzelaars_lives
Al Cowlings Posted January 17, 2014 Posted January 17, 2014 The Bills are not taking a WR in any round before 5. Stop please.
Nanker Posted January 17, 2014 Posted January 17, 2014 face it. we'll draft a DB. and one that will suck.
3rdand12 Posted January 17, 2014 Posted January 17, 2014 (edited) The drop stats change my outlook on Lee. I think he's better at running and cutting than the other guys on that list, but that doesn't matter if you can't catch the ball. I still wouldn't mind seeing him as a Bill, but I don't know that he's at the top of my list. As far as the line, I'd like to see upgrades to the OL, but the group we have is reasonably adequate at pass protection. The rookie QB carousel made the pass protection look worse than it was. Reasonably adequate..The O line was the limiting factor for Hackett. Sure it was a strong race from many comers for suckage . The rookie WRs and the other WRs too. Such as johnson and the wanker Graham . along with some TE issues. (Drops penalties) And then... too the QBs. Please please do not defend that line . all of Chan's years we had revolving doors on the line because of major and minor injuries but Joe D held it together some how. Now we have a healthy line ALL season and they were " reasonably adequate against the pass rush " I expected better from you sir Edited January 17, 2014 by 3rdand12
Big Turk Posted January 17, 2014 Posted January 17, 2014 The Bills have had a solid offensive line since you've been posting in this forum. They had a very good line in '07-'08 and then again in '11 and '12. Look at the numbers. In today's NFL, you simply aren't going to have 5 all pros on offensive line. They have a franchise left tackle and a damn solid center. That's a hell of a lot more than most teams can say. They need some help at guard but it's far from unfixable and truthfully, it's probably the position most easily addressed in free agency. I am excited about the prospect of taking the best wide receiver in the draft. It's not like we've ever done that in these recent regimes either. There is 0% chance they take a RT with their 1st round pick...its one of the least important Offensive positions and would essentially be a wasted pick... A top 10 pick is supposed to be a difference maker and a RT is not a difference maker...
dayman Posted January 17, 2014 Posted January 17, 2014 Reasonably adequate.. The O line was the limiting factor for Hackett. Sure it was a strong race from many comers for suckage . The rookie WRs and the other WRs too. Such as johnson and the wanker Graham . along with some TE issues. (Drops penalties) And then... too the QBs. Please please do not defend that line . all of Chan's years we had revolving doors on the line because of major and minor injuries but Joe D held it together some how. Now we have a healthy line ALL season and they were " reasonably adequate against the pass rush " I expected better from you sir Either way we don't have to go #1 to get better at OL. We may have to go #1 to truly change the passing dynamic.
Prickly Pete Posted January 17, 2014 Posted January 17, 2014 (edited) Lee's numbers were interesting, especially the drops. Evans' YAC were better than I thought. Based on these numbers (if they were the only basis of evaluation), I'd rank them: 1. Evans 2. Watkins 3. Benjamin 4. Lee Personally, I would love Watkins as a Bill. I posted this elsewhere, but I'll post it again. The Bills have fast guys that get open pretty well, not spectacular, but adequate (whether anyone gets them the ball is a different topic). The main receiving problem is in the red zone, especially the END ZONE (ranked 29th...they sucked, and it cost them games). There aren't many "soft spots" there because there isn't much space. That's where you need a guy that can fight for the ball...Sammy Watkins isn't that guy. I have watched a few highlight vids...I have yet to see him catch a pass in the red zone (saw him drop one)... it's obviously not a strength of his. The Bills need a guy that can go up to catch a fade pass in the end zone, or fight off a Db on a comeback at the goal line pylon, or go up for a pass under the post at the back of the end zone. Sammy ain't that guy. The chart also shows that most of his receptions (by far, 57%!) are screens. These Bills don't run many screens, but even if they did, they have guys that can do them well already. To me it's about expanding on what the Bill's offense can do (bringing in guys with skills the team doesn't have). Edited January 17, 2014 by Marauder'sMicro
thewildrabbit Posted January 17, 2014 Posted January 17, 2014 The Bills have had a solid offensive line since you've been posting in this forum. They had a very good line in '07-'08 and then again in '11 and '12. Look at the numbers. In today's NFL, you simply aren't going to have 5 all pros on offensive line. They have a franchise left tackle and a damn solid center. That's a hell of a lot more than most teams can say. They need some help at guard but it's far from unfixable and truthfully, it's probably the position most easily addressed in free agency. I am excited about the prospect of taking the best wide receiver in the draft. It's not like we've ever done that in these recent regimes either. Really, a solid line since 07-08. Is that why they won so few games? It just might happen that you share the same insight in that O line that the Bills have done since that time. The Bills have has some absolute scrubs at different positions on that the last decade, and In my view is a huge reason why they don't win many games. Lets look at the current four teams left in the playoffs, The Patriots, LT Solder #1 pick. LG Mankins #1 pick. RT Vollmer #2 pick. so 3 of 5 are 1st & 2nd round picks The Broncos, LT Clady #1 pick. LG Beadles #2 pick RG Vasquez # 3 pick. RT Franklin a #2 pick. So 4 of 5 are top 3 picks and their center is a 4th. The 49ers, LT Staley #1 pick. LG Iupati #1 pick. RT Davis #1 pick. So 3 of 5 are 1st & 2nd round picks. The Seahawks, LT Okung #1 pick. LG McQuistan #3 pick C Unger #2 pick, So 3 of 5 top 3 picks. Look like all the playoff teams have great stability on the left side of their line. The Bills could have had 3 of 5 this year, and great stability but they let their highest graded player in Andy Levitre go to Tennessee. Instead they ended up with the very worst graded player in the entire NFL at LG after 6 weeks. Then cut him and replaced him with a below average player. The Bills currently have TWO #1's at corner. TWO #2's at Safety. A one hundred million dollar DE, and several other low round draft picks on the defense. Four #2's Five #1's that means 9 of 11 players on the defense have been drafted in the first two rounds. The Bills had the 2nd leading pass rush in the NFL this year with 57 sacks, and they led the NFL in tackles. Where did it get them? Oh yeah 6-10. The Bills drafted a WR in the 2nd & 3rd round last season, and 3rd rounder in 2012. So before they let those players develop its best to draft a WR with the #9 this year.... How many Bills players on that O line have made the pro bowl since 1994? I'll tell ya, exactly two! It takes five good players to make up a quality O line. Which is something this franchise hasn't seen since the Jim Kelly Days. Probably why they haven't won a playoff game for 17 years, and have missed the playoffs for 14.
Maury Ballstein Posted January 17, 2014 Posted January 17, 2014 Evans route running is nowhere near as good as watkins which makes me question how much you have actually watched of the two, how did you come to this conclusion? Did you watch a lot of their games, read draft previews or something else? Evans is as raw as they come and JFF would usually run around, chuck the ball up, and hope Evans came down with it. All of this. Watkins runs better routes by a mile.
Prickly Pete Posted January 17, 2014 Posted January 17, 2014 (edited) Really, a solid line since 07-08. Is that why they won so few games? It just might happen that you share the same insight in that O line that the Bills have done since that time. The Bills have has some absolute scrubs at different positions on that the last decade, and In my view is a huge reason why they don't win many games. Lets look at the current four teams left in the playoffs, The Patriots, LT Solder #1 pick. LG Mankins #1 pick. RT Vollmer #2 pick. so 3 of 5 are 1st & 2nd round picks The Broncos, LT Clady #1 pick. LG Beadles #2 pick RG Vasquez # 3 pick. RT Franklin a #2 pick. So 4 of 5 are top 3 picks and their center is a 4th. The 49ers, LT Staley #1 pick. LG Iupati #1 pick. RT Davis #1 pick. So 3 of 5 are 1st & 2nd round picks. The Seahawks, LT Okung #1 pick. LG McQuistan #3 pick C Unger #2 pick, So 3 of 5 top 3 picks. Look like all the playoff teams have great stability on the left side of their line. The Bills could have had 3 of 5 this year, and great stability but they let their highest graded player in Andy Levitre go to Tennessee. Instead they ended up with the very worst graded player in the entire NFL at LG after 6 weeks. Then cut him and replaced him with a below average player. The Bills currently have TWO #1's at corner. TWO #2's at Safety. A one hundred million dollar DE, and several other low round draft picks on the defense. Four #2's Five #1's that means 9 of 11 players on the defense have been drafted in the first two rounds. The Bills had the 2nd leading pass rush in the NFL this year with 57 sacks, and they led the NFL in tackles. Where did it get them? Oh yeah 6-10. The Bills drafted a WR in the 2nd & 3rd round last season, and 3rd rounder in 2012. So before they let those players develop its best to draft a WR with the #9 this year.... How many Bills players on that O line have made the pro bowl since 1994? I'll tell ya, exactly two! It takes five good players to make up a quality O line. Which is something this franchise hasn't seen since the Jim Kelly Days. Probably why they haven't won a playoff game for 17 years, and have missed the playoffs for 14. It takes one QB to make a line look quality. I agree, the line needs improvement, but as has been argued for years here, the QB position has been the root of the problem. And don't tell me the QB's sucked because of the line. None of them went to other teams and had success. Edited January 17, 2014 by Marauder'sMicro
uncle flap Posted January 17, 2014 Posted January 17, 2014 Well, I see you guys got this taken care of. For those that are high on Evans, I suggest you check out Kelvin Benjamin. Look for him to leapfrog Evans in the projections as the draft grows closer.
Johnny Hammersticks Posted January 17, 2014 Posted January 17, 2014 Well, I see you guys got this taken care of. For those that are high on Evans, I suggest you check out Kelvin Benjamin. Look for him to leapfrog Evans in the projections as the draft grows closer. If Buffalo goes WR in round 1, I want Benjamin. He's going to absolutely blow the lid off the combine due to his freakish size and athleticism, and has had an incredible season. He reminds me of a cross between Andre Johnson and Alshon Jeffery.
LB3 Posted January 17, 2014 Posted January 17, 2014 (edited) I only saw Watkins play 4 times this year but I was always impressed. Especially his ability to battle for the ball despite not being that big. I think Benjamin has the second most potential, but he's pretty raw like Evans. I like Lee a lot too. Last year he probably would have been a top ten pick. A ton of skill there. Edited January 17, 2014 by KikoSeeBallKikoGetBall
JPS Posted January 17, 2014 Posted January 17, 2014 I disagree. I have seen a lot of each and think that Watkins is certainly more explosive but also a better route runner. Evans does not create seperation and made a lot of plays based on broken plays by Johnny. Evans scares me a lot at 9 and I think is a guy that will drop as the process goes on. I thought that Evans really struggled late in the year. I really liked him earlier in the year but I like him less and less everyday. Watkins is in his own class IMO followed by Lee, Benjamin and Evans (depending on who you like best). Well put. Watkins is in a class by himself.
flmike Posted January 17, 2014 Posted January 17, 2014 I've watched Benjamin a lot. He's really tall. Makes those catches in the endzone and EJ has thrown to him many times before. Why not grab a guy like that early. Oh, about the Pats taking linemen early. They already had their skill players and they usually pick past no. 20...
uncle flap Posted January 17, 2014 Posted January 17, 2014 I have watched a few highlight vids...I have yet to see him catch a pass in the red zone You didn't watch the Orange Bowl?
Mark80 Posted January 17, 2014 Posted January 17, 2014 There are a quite a bit of good receivers in this draft. Everyone talks of Evans, Watkins and Lee (now Benjamin is rocketing up the boards). With our TE, OLine, and run stopping LB needs, I think WR is better addressed in round 2-4. I think we would also be discussing Penn State's Robinson and Vandy's Matthews as guys to target. Also, I loved LSU's Landry (over Beckham Jr.) this season. He was making clutch plays all year long, but he (as well as Lee) is not as big / tall as I think we need.
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