DDD Posted January 15, 2014 Posted January 15, 2014 (edited) Bellichek is no doubt but I wonder how successful he will be when Brady retires. Great QB's make great coaches (see Marv Levy in KC vs Buffalo) Edited January 15, 2014 by DDD
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted January 15, 2014 Posted January 15, 2014 Take away Tom Brady. What's left? How was he in Cleveland? He was actually pretty good in Cleveland. He had to fight the backlash over going with testaverde over everyone's favorite guy, kosar. That actually proved to be a good move. I've read a bunch of articles where folks, in hindsight, realized what a great job he did with a crappy team.
Nick the Greek Posted January 15, 2014 Posted January 15, 2014 Jimmie Johnson anyone? Got a couple SuperBowl rings at the Bills expense :( .. Not to mention owning it at the Miami
BuffOrange Posted January 15, 2014 Posted January 15, 2014 He was actually pretty good in Cleveland. He had to fight the backlash over going with testaverde over everyone's favorite guy, kosar. That actually proved to be a good move. I've read a bunch of articles where folks, in hindsight, realized what a great job he did with a crappy team. There is some validity to the Vinny/Kosar point. Making an unpopular move for the good of the team (see Milloy, Lawyer) is one of his trakemarks. The 2nd point, I don't know. The hindsight is just that imo. Would those folks be saying the same things if his NE career didn't happen? He won 11 games in his 4th year which is fine, but a lot of guys have a surprise 11win year and are never heard from again. '95 did not look like it was shaping up to be a good year even before the Baltimore announcement/distraction (I'm not sure at what point everyone internally knew about it).
KOKBILLS Posted January 15, 2014 Posted January 15, 2014 Oh Jesus. There's always at least one...Always...
Doug Flutie Band Posted January 15, 2014 Posted January 15, 2014 belichek def top coach of the recent era is he ahead of lombardi/walsh/parcells all time? thats hard to say but hes certainly in the discussion there are SO many trends that go around the nfl in offensive and defensive schemes that seem to get pioneered up in new england
3rdnlng Posted January 15, 2014 Posted January 15, 2014 Hey guys, it's the off season for us again so I'm going a little of topic(not really a Bills topic). I saw the post regarding being sick of Manning and Brady. It got me thinking of how Billecheck(sp) has made this team a winner. I know, I know they have Brady, but this guy is a genius. He adapts his game plan every week to take advantage of weaknesses of the opposing team. I know all coaches try to do this, but he does it right. No receivers to throw to?!?! No problem. No marquee Rb, no problem. I know he cheated, but other teams were doing the same(just never caught). IMO he is the best coach I've seen in the last 25 yrs. Also, I could be wrong but Parcells didn't win a SB without him. I don't think Parcells would have won 1 SB without Bellicheck . Sure Bills fans can't stand him, but he is damn good. Any thoughts or other coaches you think is better? Link? He was a failure with Cleveland and didn't do schit until he had a QB that he felt so well about that he was drafted in the 6th round.
Utah John Posted January 15, 2014 Posted January 15, 2014 (edited) Bill Walsh invented the West Coast Offense. Belichek has not been an innovator but he's been able to win consistently despite injuries and retirements that would have crushed others. Shula was a great Xs and Os guy and always won, in Baltimore and Miami. Lombardi was a great leader as was Joe Gibbs (the first time). Marv Levy was really good for only about 5 years, not in the same class as the others. Jimmy Johnson was an arrogant jerk who rode a great roster without innovating -- not in the same class as Landry or Shula, two guys he got reckless stupid owners to fire so they could hire him. Note the common denominator of the great coaches. Great QBs. I wonder if there's a connection? Edited January 15, 2014 by Utah John
Buftex Posted January 15, 2014 Posted January 15, 2014 (edited) Bill Walsh invented the West Coast Offense. Belichek has not been an innovator but he's been able to win consistently despite injuries and retirements that would have crushed others. Shula was a great Xs and Os guy and always won, in Baltimore and Miami. Lombardi was a great leader as was Joe Gibbs (the first time). Marv Levy was really good for only about 5 years, not in the same class as the others. Jimmy Johnson was an arrogant jerk who rode a great roster without innovating -- not in the same class as Landry or Shula, two guys he got reckless stupid owners to fire so they could hire him. Note the common denominator of the great coaches. Great QBs. I wonder if there's a connection? Joe Gibbs won 3 rings, with three different squads, none of which featured a HOF calliber QB. Don't underetimate flat-out great coaching and over-estimate "innovation". I happen to agree with you that Jimmy Johnson is (was) an arrogant jerk, but how can you write off his accomplishments as "rode a great roster"...didn't Bill Walsh have a lot of talent to ride? Your reasoning is all over the place... Edited January 15, 2014 by Buftex
Mr. WEO Posted January 15, 2014 Posted January 15, 2014 (edited) Gibbs certainly is in the top 2. Belichick is the other. Don Shula and it's not close. He won more longer and more consistantly than any head coach. He did it with great QBs and pedestrian ones. Take bellicheats record without Brady and he barely cracks .500 Shula spent the bulk of his career with 3 HOF QBs. Even with Marino, he had 5 nonwinning seasons. Take away Tom Brady. What's left? How was he in Cleveland? How was Levy in KC? How was Walsh before Montana? Repeating a dumb argument doesn't make it any more persuasive. Edited January 15, 2014 by Mr. WEO
Gerry Posted January 15, 2014 Posted January 15, 2014 Take away Tom Brady. What's left? How was he in Cleveland? Did just that in 2008; Pats beat Bills twice with Cassel at QB.
Buftex Posted January 15, 2014 Posted January 15, 2014 Did just that in 2008; Pats beat Bills twice with Cassel at QB. Well, in all fairness, you can't really use the Bills as an accurate measuring stick for pretty much anything on the field football related...
Pneumonic Posted January 15, 2014 Posted January 15, 2014 You'll find the ability to cherry pick faults with most of the top HC's. Walsh struggled to win before Montana and never won a SB without him. Noll was 1-13 before Bradshaw and only ever won a SB with him. Furthermore, Noll may well have had the greatest group of players ever assembled onto 1 team at a time. Landry. Lost 2 of every 3 games he coached his first 6 years on the job. Only ever won a SB with Staubach. Shula. Never won a SB without Griese on his team. Lombardi. Never won a SB/championship without Starr. Brown. Never won a championship without Graham. Gibbs is the only one who won SB titles using different QB's. Belichick also has only won a SB title with 1 QB as his guy. However, what differentiates BB from the others is BB won his titles with the constraints of a salary cap and during an era that is meant to result in league wide parity. None of the other HC's mentioned above had to perform under such a restriction. That BB has, over the last 14 seasons while operating under such restriction, directed his team to the AFC championship game 8 times, appeared in the SB 5 times and has come away with 3 Lombardi's is something this league may never see again.
thebandit27 Posted January 15, 2014 Posted January 15, 2014 Slight edge to Joe Gibbs over Belichick given that he won Superbowls with Rypien and Williams.
Gerry Posted January 15, 2014 Posted January 15, 2014 Well, in all fairness, you can't really use the Bills as an accurate measuring stick for pretty much anything on the field football related... Can't argue with you on that; the Pats did go 11-5 in '08 with Brady out.
Pneumonic Posted January 15, 2014 Posted January 15, 2014 Slight edge to Joe Gibbs over Belichick given that he won Superbowls with Rypien and Williams. But never had to deal with a salary cap like Belichick has.
TallskiWallski83 Posted January 15, 2014 Posted January 15, 2014 Bellichek is no doubt but I wonder how successful he will be when Brady retires. Great QB's make great coaches (see Marv Levy in KC vs Buffalo) which is why the year Tom Brady tore his ACL Belichick coached freakin Matt Cassel to an 11-5 record
billsfan1959 Posted January 15, 2014 Posted January 15, 2014 (edited) Don Shula and it's not close. He won more longer and more consistantly than any head coach. He did it with great QBs and pedestrian ones. Take bellicheats record without Brady and he barely cracks .500 When it comes to pure head coaching - I look at those coaches who managed to have long term success with and without hall of fame talent (particularly at QB) - or with different teams - or both. Bill Parcells is an interesting guy to me in terms of pure coaching ability. His teams were always so fundamentally sound and competetive. He took two different teams to three superbowls (winning two), a third team to the AFC Championship game, and four different teams total to the playoffs. He did it with great talent and not so great talent - and all without the benefit of ever having a Manning, Brady, Montana, etc. caliber QB. Not to mention, not one of the four teams had more than five wins the year before Parcells took over. How many other coaches have we seen (Jimmy Johnson comes to mind) that had great success with great talent, but average success with average talent. Edited January 15, 2014 by billsfan1959
billsfan1959 Posted January 15, 2014 Posted January 15, 2014 What about when Brady went down and Cassel went in? Good job that season, although only two of their wins came against teams with a winning record...just sayin
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